The brown Temperate Combat Boot (AKA: Mk IV Cbt Boot) - No longer CADPAT

[Old EO Tech]

Yes!! Worth a Mastered in "Leading Change" and "Initiative" for them I bet!!

"guidance" sounds much less restrictive than "orders"

Jon

 

[Fishbone Jones]

It really had very little to do with procurement and more a case of the powers that be recognizing that the purchase and use of aftermarket kit was not the transgression that certain elements of the CF make it out to be. I've had the fortune of serving on Op's with both militaries and was really taken aback by the rigid adhesion to issued kit by certain command elements of the CF.

So you've said a half dozen times in the last couple of pages. We get it.

The same theme has been mentioned a gazillion times in this thread and elsewhere by many others here.

You can quit banging your drum.

 

[Jarnhamar]

A little off topic but I wanna throw out some counter points regarding after market kit.

It really had very little to do with procurement and more a case of the powers that be recognizing that the purchase and use of aftermarket kit was not the transgression that certain elements of the CF make it out to be. I've had the fortune of serving on Op's with both militaries and was really taken aback by the rigid adhesion to issued kit by certain command elements of the CF.

I love aftermarket kit as much as the next geardo but it's not always a case of the CF fun police simply saying no because they know it upsets us little guys. 

1. Consider this with rucksacks;

You have your British bergen, I have my Lowealpine Saracen, ArmyVern has a Kiraru MMR, CombatDoc has a Snugpak Pocketpack, PMedMoe has the 82 style rucksack, Recceguy a 64 Pattern jumpruck, Old EOtech has a haversack (I kid)  but you get the picture.

Aside from looking like a gang of mercenaries what happens when shoulder straps and waist belts start breaking? What if you're on an OP for a few weeks or a month?  That may not seem like a very strong argument but I've seen a heck of a lot of effort put in to bringing the small shit (helmet straps)out to the FOBs and COPs in a rush. Sometimes on emergency resupplies.  Troops loved their OregonAero kits for their helmets (myself included) but when those straps and buckles break troops needed complete new strap systems and sometimes even helmets brought out for them.

2. Another issue with aftermarket kit is that us troops are stupid enough to use knockoffs. A good friend of mine loved the EoTech I had (self bought before I knew they were issued) so he ordered one from Ebay (China). Only $150, I was a sucker for paying $500. His broke in a week, luckily it wasn't at an inopportune time.
I'll include  troops buying fake Oakleys and then either using them or getting them mixed up with legit ones.  That's just giving the chain of command ammo for the No-Oakley-Crusade.

3. We bitch that the CoC and CF is giving us shitty equipment to use. The media gets a hold of that and spins a story that Canada's army is using inferior equipment (true enough) which embarrasses the chain of command. Their reaction is to cease the use of this kit everywhere.


The companies that produce the "inferior kit" don't give a shit because they're getting big money whether or not guys like me spend $300 on Rockeys, I'm still issued 2 pairs of their boots and they still get paid. They're laughing all the way to the bank.




One alternate method to using our own personally bought kit all the time is to use the issued kit that we can't stand (boots, tacvest, rucksack) and overwhelm the chain of command with those reports (I can't remember what they are called) but the ones that say this piece of issued equipment is garbage. It doesn't work. It's garbage and doesn't work for the following reasons. We need it replaced ASAP.

 

[dapaterson]

You mean, submit UCRs like you're supposed to and not just bitch all the time?

 

[OldSolduer]

You mean, submit UCRs like you're supposed to and not just ***** all the time?

Quite right. If enough problems with the kit is reported, the adults have to do something.

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Like the 'Tiger Team' report that a former CLS put together to 'Fix the Tac-Vest Problem' only to have that initiative quashed by budgetary cutbacks?  ...UCRs were submitted, DLR became aware of the equipment shortcoming and started a corrective course of action, then program scaled back and now effectively terminated.

 

[Good2Golf]

In 1 CMBG there were only two kinds of boots authorized for wear: black, and tan.  Now we have brown as well.

Makes it kind of simple....

...at least that makes one formation using common sense.  I'm pretty sure common sense is fairly common in 2 as well, like OZ said.  I know folks seem to be able to wear any of the three colours of boots where I work.  :nod:

 

[PaulD]

The brown boots are comfortable once they are broken in.  The problem is once they are broken in, they break!

I've had both my issued brown boots blow out in the ankle where the nylon and leather are stitched together.  I did the hot water treatment to form them to my feet and I have a suspicion that the type of nylon (not even sure if it's Cordura) doesn't like exposure to hot water. 

I am disappoint.  Base clothing told me these boots are an interim solution until a proper boot can be fielded but that sounds asinine. 

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Because people like me seem comfortable with the Boots, general purpose while Billy Bob likes the SWAT boots.  I could go on with a ton of examples. 

Horse. Dead. Beaten.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

What baffles me is this "need to have an interim boot while a *real* one is found".  It is not like they are 'inventing' boots ffs.  Lots of companies are already making really good boots.  :facepalm:

 

[armyvern]

What baffles me is this "need to have an interim boot while a *real* one is found".  It is not like they are 'inventing' boots ffs.  Lots of companies are already making really good boots.  :facepalm:

Apparently, just not Canadian companies; and that is the trick. 

 

[JorgSlice]

What baffles me is this "need to have an interim boot while a *real* one is found".  It is not like they are 'inventing' boots ffs.  Lots of companies are already making really good boots.  :facepalm:

You shall not halt the crusade to create the perfect Doo-Doo Boot.  >

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Apparently, just not Canadian companies; and that is the trick. 

Balderdash!  ;D

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Simple fix:

Resurrect the MkIII as the general purpose combat boot but with the following mods:
CADPAT Brown full grain leather
Speed lacing
Padded collar at the top & leather pull tab
Vibram/EVA composite sole

MkIII generally worked and was durable for 30+ years of service.  Canadian industry was and is capable of producing this boot. 
Issue 2 pair of boots per Soldier/entitled CAF member, but amend the dress regulations to state that personally purchased boots may be worn.
This pleases the Canadian footwear industry as they keep their  DND boot contract business and it pleases the CAF members because if they don’t like the issued boot, they can wear an alternative.

Sample dress regulation for personally purchased boots (amended from Marine Corps Dress Regulations):
ALL CAF MEMBERS MAY PERSONALLY PURCHASE (AT NO EXPENSE TO THE CROWN) OPTIONAL COMMERCIALLY AVAILABLE COMBAT BOOTS FROM ANY SOURCE PROVIDED THEY MEET CRITERIA SET FORTH IN THE FOLLOWING PARAGRAPHS.  THESE ITEMS WILL NOT BE USED TO SATISFY MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS AND THE ISSUED COMBAT BOOT WILL REMAIN A MANDATORY POSSESSION ITEM.  THESE BOOTS MAY BE WORN AT THE OPTION OF THE INDIVIDUAL WHENEVER COMBAT BOOTS ARE PRESCRIBED/AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR, EXCEPT THAT COMMANDERS MAY REQUIRE THE WEAR OF THE STANDARD ISSUE BOOTS ON SPECIFIC OCCASIONS WHEN UNIFORMITY IS REQUIRED, I.E., INSPECTIONS, PARADES, CEREMONIES, ETC. 
ALL OPTIONAL BOOTS WILL MEET THE FOLLOWING GENERAL APPEARANCE
STANDARDS:
BOOTS WILL BE A VISUAL COLOUR MATCH TO THE ISSUED COMBAT BOOT.
BOOTS WILL BE ALL FULL GRAIN OR NUBUCK/’ROUGH OUT’ LEATHER, OR FULL GRAIN OR NUBUCK/’ROUGH OUT’ LEATHER TOE AND HEEL WITH FABRIC UPPERS.
BOOTS MAY HAVE A PLAIN OR CAPPED TOE.
BOOTS MAY HAVE A VULCANIZED/DIRECT MOULDED OR GOODYEAR/NORWEGIAN WELT SOLE CONSTRUCTION.
SPEED LACES OR EYELET LACING IS ACCEPTABLE. 
THE TOTAL HEIGHT OF THE BOOTS WILL BE FROM 8 TO 12 INCHES. 
LINING, INSULATION, OR PADDING IS OPTIONAL.
BOOTS WITH A PATENT LEATHER OR POROMERIC FINISH ARE NOT AUTHORIZED. 
BOOTS UTILIZING ZIPPERS ARE NOT AUTHORIZED.
BOOTS MADE ENTIRELY OF FABRIC AND/OR RUBBER ARE NOT AUTHORIZED.
BOOTS WORN UNDER THIS AUTHORITY WILL BE FUNCTIONAL AND SUITABLE
FOR COMBAT AND FIELD WEAR.

 

[Mr. St-Cyr]

There we have it, case closed. Good thing the Brits made the switch to brown as well. The market is flooding with brown combat boots over there:

Altberg
Haix
Lowa
Magnum
YDS
Bates
Meindl

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Edited...sorry for the double post

 

[ballz]

There we have it, case closed. Good thing the Brits made the switch to brown as well. The market is flooding with brown combat boots over there:

Altberg
Haix
Lowa
Magnum
YDS
Bates
Meindl

Nice. I'm very happy to see I won't have to search very hard for a pair of brown Meindls when they decide that black boots are no longer good to go.

I'm not so happy that Meindl is still using that gross grey stripe at the bottom though.

 

[Quirky]

I day I get issued my blowns I'm ordering a set of Magnum safeties. The current Magnums I have now are so much better than anything I've been issued. After reading this thread I can see the trend of crappy issued boots is going to continue.  :-[

 

[JorgSlice]

Did my weekly call to Stores to see where my boots are at, no Doo-Doo Boots (or even Mk4's) and Doc won't give me a boot chit. I've been advised I must wear my "Boots, Combat, Wet Weather" until further notice.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

That is just not on IMO.

Who 'advised' you that?