Let me get this straight, the liberals did not vote against the budget and that shows lack of intestinal fortitude and doing it only for mercenary gain, but its fine when Harper did the same thing while in opposition? Were not the public being cheated then? Is there a time limit on how many times a party can abstent, I dont think so. Both parties are equally at fault here. Both had their reasons not to vote the budget down. Both were doing that for political gain. Dont kid yourself.
The Chuck Cadman Merged Thread
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sgf said:
Once again, you failed to read my opinion fully and understand it. So, once again, I'll explain it it little pieces so you can understand.
Abstention should not be an option. It cheats the voters.
Used once, or even twice, during a government's term, can be looked upon as posturing, and while not proper, is usually overlooked. It has been for a long time, well and long before the CPC came on the scene.
Using it constantly, as the liberals have been doing, shows lack of guts, to confront the boogey man they complain about so much. They are not giving their constituents their moneys worth. They are cheating the public. The liberals are only concerned with their own survival and not the needs of the people that put them there, or the good of the country.
You're right. There should be a limit. Actually, it shouldn't be allowed at all. However, given that it is, if it was limited, the liberals would have far exceeded an acceptable quota, since the last election, long ago.
I'll go one further, voting with the government, to avoid election, while posturing, in the scrum & MSM, against the given legislation, amounts to the same thing. Gutless.
I'll let someone else respond to you, next time you attack my opinion without fully reading and understanding it. This has been twice now. I can't be bothered to waste my time.
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sgf said:
The CPC has used it sparingly, as have other parties. The liberals have and are abusing it, by using it so many times. That and voting with the goverment, when they fundementally disagree with the content, simply to forestall the election, is selfish and self serving. It not only hurts them for credibility, it also abuses the trust the voters placed in them. We are not just talking about the budget vote here, but an ongoing abuse of process by the liberals.
I can't make it any clearer for you. If you still have trouble understanding the concept, I suggest you participate somewhere else, as the discussion here seems to, possibly, be going well over your head.
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recceguy said:
To be fair, if the tables were turned and the Tories were like the Liberals right now and had a pathetic leader, no money, and no direction whatsoever they would probably be doing the same things just to hold on to something......
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I quite agree. We saw some of this lack of direction during Harper's tenure as opposition leader. During this time, he attempted on several occasions to get the Governor General to intervene on his behalf. Madame Clarkson politely ignored him.
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Madam Clarkson had the "Reserve Powers" of the Vice Regal office to intervene during a constitutional crisis, such as the governing party ignore a motion and vote of non confidence. Perhaps unfortunately, Her Excellency chose not to intervene, first due to the negative example of the "Byng King" affair, where Lord Byng rebuffed Prime Minister King's request to dissolve parliament (to avoid a corruption scandal becoming public....how things have changed ,</sarcasm>) and invited the leader of the opposition to from the government. While correct, the new government fell in turn and King used the election as a chance to attack the Vice Regal office (and incidentally hide the scandal which started the whole thing off). Subsequent holders of the Vice Regal office have been less inclined to dust off their reserve powers, although there was a rumor that this might have become a factor in 1982 during the repatriation of the constitution.
The other factor is the Vice Regal office has become a highly paid patronage post, which must change how occupants see the role of the office.
In the mean time, to provide that balance and fairness some posters seem to feel is lacking:
http://crux-of-the-matter.com/2008/03/06/what-is-former-pm-paul-martin-saying/
The other factor is the Vice Regal office has become a highly paid patronage post, which must change how occupants see the role of the office.
In the mean time, to provide that balance and fairness some posters seem to feel is lacking:
http://crux-of-the-matter.com/2008/03/06/what-is-former-pm-paul-martin-saying/
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I had heard that Martin might be in legal trouble over the Cadman affair. Since he wrote the forward questions have arisen that if he read the book, he failed to fulfill his duty to inform the House of the allegations, and there might be legal consequences.
We have talked about Stronach on here but we should not forget Wajid Khan, Scott Brison, Garth Turner and David Emerson as being floor crossers also. Perhaps all of these floor crossings need to be investigated as all of these folks benefited from the switch. Should there not be a policy if you cross the floor it triggers an automatic by-election?
We have talked about Stronach on here but we should not forget Wajid Khan, Scott Brison, Garth Turner and David Emerson as being floor crossers also. Perhaps all of these floor crossings need to be investigated as all of these folks benefited from the switch. Should there not be a policy if you cross the floor it triggers an automatic by-election?
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The difference is that two elections within a calandar year is a bit much, but this minority government is already one of the longest on record. There's no question that the Liberals have slid from being wary of premature elections to shirking their responsibility to act as a loyal opposition.stegner said:
The thing that gets me in all of this plus the NAFTAgate, is Harper campaigned on integrity, accountability and how years of Liberal corruption are over. He said that his party would be morally better. I am still waiting for that to happen.
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sgf said:
Wow, seems to me to be exactly what the Liberals themselves always campaign on -- that being the "moral highground". Welcome to politics ladies & gents, just in case you happened to have missed it in High School civics class. :
And Liberalgate this -- and -- Liberalgate that ...
It always comes down to which is the lesser of the evils ... cast your votes wisely.
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All parties campaign on occupying the moral high ground.
This must be part of Harper's plan to improve relations with the United States. If Obama become President which is still a distinct possibility and Harper remains Prime Minister what kind of relationship do you think that would be like? Not very good and worse than the Chretien and Bush relationship-Bush and Chretien's differences were policy-oriented and not personal as has been widely reported. A Obama-Harper relationship would see personal and policy differences. If you check Obama's website he is quoting Jack Layton to defend the allegations of the double speak on NAFTA. Not good. Harper's name is mud in the Obama camp.
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sgf said:
Oh, so because they've never actually run on a platform of "accountibility and integrity", we should just excuse the fact that they are neither and have evidenced a long history of not being so?? You people kill me. :
Not like you voted for Harper anyway --- so apparently you didn't listen to his promises anyway. What are you worried about?? Those who did and who voted for him? I voted for him -- and I didn't do so based solely on "honesty & integrity" --- rather I did so in large part because I, for one, was sick and tired of empty Liberal promises that turned to squat due to them being more concerned about covering their own asses and paying all their patronage costs.
Pots and black kettles.
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sgf said:
;D
Doesn't that tell you something about the Liberal's?
A
aesop081
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sgf said:
:rofl:
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COFFEE ALL OVER THE NEW COMPANY MONITOR!!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!
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sgf said:
Which is something the Liberals themselves were incapable of doing -- exactly why they did NOT get my vote last election ... and is something that remains unchanged today -- were there to be an election (and, me thinks the Liberals may know that I and many others feel this way --- ergo their very agile little two-stepping dance being bantied about the Canadian public in dearest hopes of avoiding an election at this time).
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