Petamocto said:While I certainly make no effort to speak for the CF or for anyone else, I strongly get the feeling that if Canada ever sends us on a blue beret mission like they did in the 90s (or earlier), they are going to get very different mission results.
Even with oppressive ROE, I just don't know of anyone I serve with that would allow that sort of thing to happen nearby without making all efforts to stop it.
I'm not saying that peacekeepers in the 1990s didn't do a great job, just that most of today's soldiers went through training and went through their first tour in a full-combat environment. Those factors, plus listening to lessons learned like those from Gen Dallaire himself, and you end up with (I believe) a force on the ground that won't be content with "Please stop what you're doing or I'll write it down".
UN peacekeepers hacked to death in Congo
By Africa correspondent Andrew Geoghegan
Updated Thu Aug 19, 2010 5:20am AEST
A rebel attack in the eastern Democratic Republic of Congo has killed three Indian peacekeepers and injured several more.
Rebels believed to belong to the Mai Mai, a Congolese militia group, ambushed an Indian army peacekeeping post.
Between 50 and 60 rebels attacked the military camp in the middle of the night.
Three Indian soldiers were hacked to death with knives and machetes while seven others suffered injuries.
The peacekeeping force opened fire on their attackers, driving them into the jungle.
The victims were all serving with the United Nations stabilisation force in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
It is unclear what prompted the brutal attack, although the Mai Mai have been responsible for ongoing violence in the region in recent years.
tomahawk6 said:The Indians and others want to do this type of work and its cheaper to pay them to do it.
E.R. Campbell said:... bad leadership, a hallmark of UN missions - even when they are led by Canadians, can also have the effect of making even good troops, with good, robust ROE look bad.
I have a hunch that the situations tend to dictate their own outcomes - much more so, anyway, than do the troops on the ground.
UN peacekeepers unaware of Congo mass rape for two weeks
Despite being in the area of rebel-occupied Luvungi town, ‘horrific’ rapes of at least 154 women and children escaped detection
Edith M. Lederer
The Associated PressPublished on Thursday, Aug. 26, 2010
The top UN envoy in Congo said Wednesday that two peacekeeping patrols were not informed by villagers that mass rapes were taking place and the United Nations is now working to improve communications and prevent any recurrence.
Roger Meece, the new UN special representative, said peacekeepers didn't learn about the “horrific” rapes of at least 154 Congolese civilians for nearly two weeks, which showed that the force's actions to protect civilians were insufficient and need to be improved.
He said one idea being pursued was to have villages report to the UN’s forward operating base at Kibua every day. If the force did not receive a report, he said, it would assume there was a problem and send a patrol to investigate.
Meece gave the most detailed account of the U.N.’s actions since Monday's report that Rwandan and Congolese rebels gang-raped nearly 200 women and some baby boys over four days not far from Kibua in eastern Congo's mining district. He spoke to reporters at U.N. headquarters by videoconference from Goma in eastern Congo.
Will F. Cragin of the International Medical Corps said Monday that aid and UN workers knew rebels had occupied Luvungi town and surrounding villages the day after the attack began on July 30. He told The Associated Press his organization was only able to get into the town after rebels ended their brutal spree of raping and looting and withdrew of their own accord on Aug. 4.
The UN wasn't made aware of the attacks until more than a week later, despite the fact that UN patrols had been in Luvungi twice after the attacks began.
Pressed on why two UN patrols learned nothing about the mass rapes, Mr. Meece said he could only speculate, noting that communication is always a problem in Congo.
“There is, of course, a significant amount of cultural baggage ... associated with rapes in this area, as well as elsewhere.” he said. “Is it conceivable that the local villagers were afraid of reprisals if they reported anything to MONUSCO? Possible. Is it conceivable that they were ashamed of what has happened in some form? That's possible.”
“I can only speculate as to what may have been the reasons, but I know that these can be very powerful in the local society and environment,” he said.
According to an American aid worker and a Congolese doctor, the rebels gang-raped nearly 200 women and some baby boys.
Mr. Meece, a former U.S. ambassador to Congo, said the UN peacekeeping force, known as MONUSCO, first received information on July 31 that combatants from the Rwandan rebel FDLR group were in the area, but there was “no suggestion at this point of an attack, much less of ... the mass rape in the villages in the area.”
The following day, the UN received information that Congolese Mai-Mai rebels were also moving to the area, probably to establish a roadblock of commercial traffic to get money, Mr. Meece said.
The UN learned later on Aug. 1 that a roadblock had been established, he said.
Early on Aug. 2, Meece said, a Congolese army patrol took off from its base at Mpofe toward Kibua and the UN later learned that the roadblock was removed, that Congolese soldiers and “remnants” of the rebel groups exchanged fire, and that the number of rebels in the area “dramatically decreased.”
The UN had no direct contact with the Congolese patrol “nor was there any information to suggest that there was large-scale rape,” he said.
A UN patrol also stopped in the village of Luvungi on Aug. 2, he said, “but the village people did not make any reports of what had happened in the preceding days.”
Mr. Meece said another MONUSCO patrol stopped in Luvungi on Aug. 9 and “once against there was no information that rapes had taken place, no less mass rapes.”
“The first reports that we got of the widespread rape ... was on Aug. 12” from the International Medical Corps, and the following day a U.N. Joint Human Rights and protection team went to the area to investigate.
Mr. Meece said the UN force is reviewing its patrol activities and considering holding meetings with local officials in the villages to increase contact.
He said about 80 peacekeepers based at Kibua are responsible for 300 square kilometres.
Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon has sent Assistant Secretary-General for Peacekeeping Atul Khare to Congo to help investigate. He also sent his Special Representative for Sexual Violence in Conflict, Margot Wallstrom, to take charge of the U.N.’s response and follow-up to the attacks.
Mr. Ban also urged the U.N. Security Council on Wednesday to “seriously consider what more we can do” in Congo and elsewhere to protect civilians during peacekeeping operations.
E.R. Campbell said:.... Those two attributes require that e.g. the African Union is out, but who is to be ‘in?’...
E.R. Campbell said:If the UN really wants to “protect civilians” it is going to have to insert a large, militarily capable peacemaking force. Those two attributes require that e.g. the African Union is out, but who is to be ‘in?’ Britain, France, Canada and Australia, for example, do not have enough forces for large scale peacemaking in a huge country like Congo (2,345,409 km2 – twice the size of Ontario which has an area of 1,076,395 km2). Maybe we do have to call on China and India. We certainly should call on someone because the current UN force is inept - that is we should call on someone if we actually give a damn.
Protecting the population has now became the primary mandate of the mission. Expecting the DRC military (probably as incompetent as they are corruptible) to join them as protectors of the population would be a pipe dream.In the area of stabilization and peace consolidation in the DRC, MONUC would, among other things, assist the Government, along with international and bilateral partners, in strengthening its military capacity, including military justice and military police; support the reform of the police; develop and implement a multi-year joint United Nations justice support programme in order to develop the criminal justice chain, the police, the judiciary and prisons in conflict-affected areas and a strategic programmatic support at the central level in Kinshasa; support the Congolese Government in consolidating State authority in the territory freed from armed groups.
Current strength
These figures reflect the strength of MONUC, the preceeding UN Mission in the DRC, as of 30 June 2010
20,586 total uniformed personnel
- 18,653 military personnel
- 704 military observers
- 1,229 police (including formed units)
982 international civilian personnel
2,787 local civilian staff
641 United Nations Volunteers
Note: Statistics for international and local civilians are as of 31 May 2010
Country contributors
Military personnel
Bangladesh, Belgium, Benin, Bolivia, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Canada (10 pers), China, Czech Republic, Denmark, Egypt, France, Ghana, Guatemala, India, Indonesia, Ireland, Jordan, Kenya, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Mongolia, Morocco, Nepal, Niger, Nigeria, Norway, Pakistan, Paraguay, Peru, Poland, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Serbia, South Africa, Spain, Sri Lanka, Sweden, Switzerland, Tanzania, Tunisia, Ukraine, United Kingdom, United States, Uruguay, Yemen and Zambia.
Police personnel
Bangladesh, Benin, Burkina Faso, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Chad, Côte d'Ivoire, Egypt, France, Guinea, India, Madagascar, Mali, Niger, Romania, Russian Federation, Senegal, Sweden, Togo, Turkey, Ukraine and Yemen.
Petamocto said:Too many African countries to keep track of, but in Sudan I know the big thing was that the UN wasn't even invited* and their government stated that any intervention had to be African-only troops.
At least the Congo seems like it's more open to having larger external forces there.
Thucydides said:I suppose we *could* decide that being totally ruthless is in order; we choose one warlord and train and equip his army to defeat all opposition so then we at least know who we are dealing with, but optics aside, what is to stop other nations from training and equipping their favorite warlords and fighting us by proxy?
Thucydides said:What is lacking is a clear definition of what our national interest is in spending blood and treasure in the Congo (or Haiti or Afghanistan or the Sudan or....)