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The Curse of Cultural Awareness

Also...to CougarKing's comment about pushing Thanksgiving and Veteran's Day and such predominantly 'ENGLISH' or WESTERN cultures on to these other cultures...well I say TOUGH LUCK

Med Tech,

Let me making something very clear. I PERSONALLY DO NOT COMPLAIN about all these Western/English Traditions like Christmas because I was raised as a CATHOLIC, as the majority of my home country was. In fact, I love Christmas and revere Veteran's Day as well as America's own Veteran's Day as well.

I was only making clear what these other non-Christian, non-Western groups would view all these mainstream celeberations in that other post. I was just responding to George Wallace's statement complaining against all these celebrations of minority groups which I infer he feels should not be continued. What I am trying to say in response to George Wallace was that what's wrong with having these small celebrations when the English/Canadian culture already predominates by having official holidays. You don't have the Chinese/Cantonese telling everyone in Richmond, BC to celebrate Chinese New Year with them in late January or mid-February!



 
CougarKing said:
But that doesn't mean ALL of those traditions should die, chanman? Dui bu Dui? (Am I right?)

Don't assume.  :p

Due to local dialects and moving around, only a small branch of the family uses Mandarin as a first language, and I'm not one of them.


As for traditions - well... new ones come and old ones go.  Culture isn't static.

I'm not sure which definition of multiculturalism but I'm guessing it's closer to what's listed in the wiki entry (caveats about wiki aside):

Multiculturalism is an ideology advocating that society should consist of, or at least allow and include, distinct cultural groups, with equal status. Multiculturalism contrasts with the monoculturalism which was historically the norm in the nation-state.

As opposed to the Merriam-Webster definition:

: of, relating to, reflecting, or adapted to diverse cultures <a multicultural society>


It seems a silly debate.  Someone could claim that by virtue of immigrant parents, I'm a hyphenated Canadian, but if I head elsewhere in the world, particularly say, China or Hong Kong, the locals pick you out as North American in about two seconds.  They know from body language, attitude, dress and deportment, that whoever or whatever you are, you aren't from around there.

 
Nemo888 said:
"a strong moral compass"

P.S. To the pro multiculturalism camp:
Will you tolerate the intolerance(moral absolutism) that many new immigrants from the middle east bring to Canada? I will not.  Killing your daughter for sleeping with someone you don't like for instance. Some values are more equal than others, lol  >:D

I NEVER said I condoned such primitive practices. However, that doesn't mean that ALL of these immigrant ideas are as threatening to Canadian mainstream culture as some make them up to be.
 
CougarKing said:
Gentlemen,

So you are saying that we just DUMP multiculturalism and GO away all the way with intolerance ....


With all due respect, MULTICULTURALISM is NOT a myth. It works in America pretty much and it works here. We don't have large ethnic civil wars as we saw in the Balkans or some nations in Africa.

Multiculturalism has done noting but create a nation of tribes. With them in our countries comes the centuries old hatred and ethnic violence (sucessfully being passed on to new generations), such as honour killings, etc, and many thumb their noses and laugh at our police, justice systems and laws. Many rape our welfare system, using the outragous fraudlent means, and take advantge of western kindness.

I beleive its the minority of such migrants who are really being genuine coming here, and they are truly disgusted as us.

In my opinion multiculturalism failed dismally, and this comes from experience with dealing with it first handedly.

Serb and Croat clubs in Sydney have been mutuallly attacked, people killed over the past 12 yrs alone. Clubs fortified with barriers, security lights fit for a stadium,  and razor wire, etc. The only threat is from each other.

Sunni vs shiite right in western Sydney.

Asian crime gangs ruling the streets and drug trade, warring with muslim and other ethnic cultures over power.

Extreme islam vs the balance of mainstream Australians, breeding a new terror from within.

Whole neighbourhoods being transformed into muslim/ethnic ghettos over the past 25 yrs. Wiley Park, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Liverpool, and Auburn just to name a few, are now out of control. Traditional homeowners being forced out, as prices drop on their homes, and then being bought up by, you guessed it.

Our own culture and way of life is really under threat, and we have only the government and the do-gooders to blame.

Seems many put their former nationality and/or religion before being a new citizen, and show it!

There is nothing wrong with immigration while its kept in check, and somehow regulated, but its got out of control now, and  the new generations of so called citizens are gaining political power, and speed. the real damage is yet to come. Look at Ontario's sharia law problem.

Wake up to reality Cougar, and don't brand me a racist or biggot in this, because it won't wash. In Australia, when I lived in Sydney, I have been a victim of 'reverse racism' many times, and once over the border to the north, I rediscovered Australia again.

At times, I have felt more threatened in western Sydney than I have here.

Now trapped in this endless world of shyte here, each day bringing me closer to home and safety. Being here has made me realise its a such a different world in this neck of the woods, and its best kept here. I've been to four ME countries, and they are all cut from the same mold.


Regards from Baghdad,

Wes



 
Cougar King,

    Let me make something clear as well. I did not direct that comment towards YOU. I was directing it en masse to those who feel that way. Also, you're quite right, none of the Chinese culture tells everyone in Richmond to celebrate Chinese New Year with them, because 1) This is NOT China or Taiwan 2) Again this is CANADA where an English culture predominates like you said, because get this...this IS a predominantly English/French country.

Also there is NOTHING wrong with celebrating your own festivals. I was never against that. I was against certain negative behaviour and bad habits.

Lastly, we dont have Veteran's Day... we have Rememberance Day. 11 November of every year. This is not a MAINSTREAM celebration. It is a day of rememberance and mourning for those who have gone before us, and those who will come after us. If anything else this is the day that EVERYONE should be 'celebrating' because without those who we are Remembering, there would be no Canada. The country which many of these cultures take for granted.
 
CougarKing said:
Med Tech,

Let me making something very clear. I PERSONALLY DO NOT COMPLAIN about all these Western/English Traditions like Christmas because I was raised as a CATHOLIC, as the majority of my home country was. In fact, I love Christmas and revere Veteran's Day as well as America's own Veteran's Day as well.

I was only making clear what these other non-Christian, non-Western groups would view all these mainstream celeberations in that other post. I was just responding to George Wallace's statement complaining against all these celebrations of minority groups which I infer he feels should not be continued. What I am trying to say in response to George Wallace was that what's wrong with having these small celebrations when the English/Canadian culture already predominates by having official holidays. You don't have the Chinese/Cantonese telling everyone in Richmond, BC to celebrate Chinese New Year with them in late January or mid-February!


I might note that the Lunar New Year is by no means exclusive to the Chinese, and that Easter is celebrated by Christians regardless of cultural background, hence you could do both.  Or you might be Eastern Orthodox and celebrate the same Christian holidays but at different days owing to the differences in calenders.

Christmas is coopted.  Even without the birth of Christ angle, plenty of people still like to mark the solstice when the day finally stop getting shorter.

You can make the case that non-Western, non-Christian groups may feel out of place, but well... it's a new place, and that's what the local flavour happens to be.  Different places celebrate different things, and we happen to celebrate these ones.
 
Wesley (Over There) said:
Multiculturalism has done noting but create a nation of tribes.

In my opinion it has failed dismally, and this comes from experience with deealing with it first handedly.

Serb and Croat clubs in Sydney haev been mutuallly attacked, people killed over the past 12 yrs alone. Clubs fortified with bariers and razor wire, etc. The only threat is from each other.

Sunni vs shiite right in western Sydney.

Asian crime gangs ruling the streets and drug trade, warring with muslim and other ethnic cultures.

Extreme islam vs the balance of Australians, breeding a new terror from within.

Whole neighbourhoods being transformed into muslim ghettos over the past 25 yrs. Wiley Park, Lakemba, Punchbowl, Liverpool, and Auburn just to name a few, are now out of control. Traditional homeowners being forced out, as prices drop on their homes, and then being bought up by, you guessed it.

Our own culture and way of life is really under threat, and we have only the government and the do-gooders to blame.

seems many put their former nationality and/or religion before being a new citizen, and show it!

There is nothing wrong with immigration while its kept in check, and somehow regulated, but its got out of control now, and  the new generations of so called citizens are gaining political power, and speed. the real damage is yet to come. Look at Ontario's sharia law problem.

Wake up to reality Cougar, and don't brand me a racist or biggot in this, because it won't wash. In Australia, when I lived in Sydney, I have been a victim of 'reverse racism' many times, and once over the border to the north, I rediscovered Australia again.

Now trapped in this endless world of shyte here, each day bringing me closer to home and safety. Being here has made me realise its a such a different world in this neck of the woods, and its best kept here. I've been to four ME countries, and they are all cut from the same mold.


Regards from Baghdad,

Wes

Sad but true.

Sergeant,

So what do you suggest we do then for Canada and Australia (and any other First World Western country that has this dilemma)?

So far I've found Zipperhead Cop's idea of just being "indifferent" to minority cultures as the one of the few things I agree with from the anti-multiculturalism camp.

BTW, Sergeant- I've never called you a bigot. Now, take care in Baghdad, since you really are in a world of **** there and I respect true soldiers like you.

Regards and Happy New Year.

Cougar
 
CougarKing said:
Sergeant,

So what do you suggest we do then for Canada and Australia (and any other First World Western country thas this dilemma)?

So far I've found Zipperhead Cop's idea of just being "indifferent" to minority cultures as the one of the few things I agree with from the anti-multiculturalism camp.

BTW, Sergeant- I've never called you a bigot. Now, take care in Baghdad, since you really are in a world of **** there and I respect true soldiers like you.

Regards and Happy New Year.

Cougar

Mate that might be my rank, but here we are all equals, and my occupation has nothing to do with my opinion.

Honestly, its like closing the gate once the horse has bolted.

We can't do much, and if one tries, he's branded a racist.

In reality, we can enforce the laws created in the post 9-11 world, and even those get challenged.

Vetting of migrants to a new tighter standard, and target tradional sources from NW europe might also help.

Aside from that, you'll grow old to new problems arisng more often in the big centres of population. I can't really see Yorkton Saskatchewan  becoming an ' escape from New York', but I can see Toronto and Vancouver having problems. wait, they are already! Or so I have read. Look at England now! see how mulitculturalism has changed it?

Regards,

Wes
 
If supporting multiculturalism means I will get Eid, Passover, Chinese New Year, Ramadan, Scotchtoberfest, Chanukah, Kwanza, May Day, Visakah Puja, Hajj, Saturnalia and every other conceivable holiday off or paid at double time and a half as a Stat holiday, then count me in! 
thwoohoo.gif

Realistically though, things are getting out of hand.  Touching on what Wesley was saying, look at Toronto.  By and large the Jamaican community there screamed and cried "racism" against the police there for decades (Led in part by a guy who is an illegal immigrant, BTW), and now look at the city.  That "unique culture" got what it wanted; no police interference with their lives.  Funny that their community is getting shot to ribbons now, and even funnier that they are calling on those same police to step in and take care of things.  "No, this is what you worked so hard for.  Enjoy the fruits of your harvest." 
There is a horrible convergence in our society of entitlement, lack of personal accountability, special interest advantage pressing, general apathy towards citizenry, and government policies that have been institutionalized by two decades of immigrant vote buying by the Liberals.  People better decide how they want their country to look:  a cluster hump of competing interests that borders on anarchy, or getting a grip on this and setting down and enforcing some rules that put everyone on a level field, but does run the risk of giving some precious [anything but a God awful unhyphenated Canadian] citizen some poo-poo feelings. 
 
CougarKing said:
Med Tech,

Let me making something very clear. I PERSONALLY DO NOT COMPLAIN about all these Western/English Traditions like Christmas because I was raised as a CATHOLIC, as the majority of my home country was. In fact, I love Christmas and revere Veteran's Day as well as America's own Veteran's Day as well.

I was only making clear what these other non-Christian, non-Western groups would view all these mainstream celeberations in that other post. I was just responding to George Wallace's statement complaining against all these celebrations of minority groups which I infer he feels should not be continued. What I am trying to say in response to George Wallace was that what's wrong with having these small celebrations when the English/Canadian culture already predominates by having official holidays. You don't have the Chinese/Cantonese telling everyone in Richmond, BC to celebrate Chinese New Year with them in late January or mid-February!

I let the matter drop as I didn't feel it needed to be taken further, but apparently you had a problem reading and interpreting what I said.  You definitely got it wrong.

I said:

George Wallace said:
Yes!  It is a failure.  We are pumping 'welfare' money (not really welfare money, but might as well be) into all these multicultural organizations and events to promote something that we had for years prior to anyone thought of Multiculturalism.  Dauphin, Manitoba, had the largest Ukrainian Festival in North America years before Trudeau entered Politics.  Quebec has celebrated Carnival since the first Frenchman landed in Quebec.  Every city had a Chinatown and Little Italy.  These are not new.  Why do we have to fund them now, and emphasise their differences.  It has totally destroyed all English cultures.......are there any English cultural events?  We have emphasised the differences, but failed to emphasise the similarities.  Canada's social structure is disintergrating.  Common bonds are getting weaker.  Hyphenated Canadians are a mistake.  You should be either Canadian, or not.  Not half and half.  That is a cream.

I am not complaining about these cultures having their own holidays and celebrations.  I am saying we had them prior to "Official Multiculturalism" and that there is no real need for the Government to fund them or in any way become involved in promoting them.  They did well and promoted themselves prior to "Official Multiculturalism" and were already recognized.

I did take offence to your comments:

CougarKing said:
...........- but do you see the Chinese or Arabs complaining about Christmas or Veteran's Day or Canadian Thanksgiving? Those are the English cultural events you must be referring to.

Let's see now.  Canadian and American Thanksgiving are North American Traditions, not English.  Christmas is a Christian tradition, not English or North American.  By the way, many are now striving to put the 'Christ' back into Christmas, but the PC crowd still seem to want to take that away and make us all say "Season's Greetings".  No one has said we can't allow others to celebrate Hanaka, Eide, Ramadan or any other Religious celebration, so why the Political Correctness over Christmas?  I don't know how you figure Veteran's Day, or let's add Remembrance Day, has any relevance to your argument, as again they are acts of remembrance initiated by the US and Canada and as such have no other cultural backgrounds.  Unless you are suggesting that newcomers to the US and Canada not acknowledge the significance of their new country's heritage and traditions.  If you are saying that, then Multiculturalism is most definitely a failure.


CougarKing said:
-................The mainstream English culture still pervades every part of our society and dominates, but the immigrants accept it and don't impose their own holidays on the rest of you like Chinese New Year in late January or early Februrary or Ramadan for the Muslims around November.


Actually the Left in Canada is so PC, that the English culture is being dismissed and demonized, while at the same time emphasis is being placed on foreign cultures to survive.  This is the failure of Multiculturalism.  By 'Ghettoizing' Canada, we are destroying it.  Prior to Multiculturalism, we celebrated our differences, but also strove to find commonality.  Now we are ignoring the things that make us 'Canadian' and emphasising what make us 'Foreigners'.  The current road that Multiculturalism has put us on, is a very divisive route to take.

I am not against a multicultural Canada or US, I am against Multiculturalism as a Government institution like what the Liberals have brought into affect and the Leftist PC crowd are encouraging.
 
The US melting pot concept has served that country far better than Canada's multiculturalism. They take the approach that first you are an American, then you celebrate your diversity.
 
George Wallace said:
I let the matter drop as I didn't feel it needed to be taken further, but apparently you had a problem reading and interpreting what I said.  You definitely got it wrong.

I said:

I am not complaining about these cultures having their own holidays and celebrations.  I am saying we had them prior to "Official Multiculturalism" and that there is no real need for the Government to fund them or in any way become involved in promoting them.  They did well and promoted themselves prior to "Official Multiculturalism" and were already recognized.

I did take offence to your comments:

Let's see now.  Canadian and American Thanksgiving are North American Traditions, not English.  Christmas is a Christian tradition, not English or North American.  By the way, many are now striving to put the 'Christ' back into Christmas, but the PC crowd still seem to want to take that away and make us all say "Season's Greetings".  No one has said we can't allow others to celebrate Hanaka, Eide, Ramadan or any other Religious celebration, so why the Political Correctness over Christmas?  I don't know how you figure Veteran's Day, or let's add Remembrance Day, has any relevance to your argument, as again they are acts of remembrance initiated by the US and Canada and as such have no other cultural backgrounds.  Unless you are suggesting that newcomers to the US and Canada not acknowledge the significance of their new country's heritage and traditions.  If you are saying that, then Multiculturalism is most definitely a failure.



Actually the Left in Canada is so PC, that the English culture is being dismissed and demonized, while at the same time emphasis is being placed on foreign cultures to survive.  This is the failure of Multiculturalism.  By 'Ghettoizing' Canada, we are destroying it.  Prior to Multiculturalism, we celebrated our differences, but also strove to find commonality.  Now we are ignoring the things that make us 'Canadian' and emphasising what make us 'Foreigners'.  The current road that Multiculturalism has put us on, is a very divisive route to take.

I am not against a multicultural Canada or US, I am against Multiculturalism as a Government institution like what the Liberals have brought into affect and the Leftist PC crowd are encouraging.


George,

I did read your previous post earlier and I am quite aware of what you said. I apologize if you were offended. Still, I think Zipperhead Cop may have a point in his "indifference toward other cultures" argument earlier and that GAP may have a point in his recent comment about America's "Melting Pot" culture versus "Multiculturalism" as a government institution.

BTW, I really should insist that those who keep saying it's the Liberals' fault please tone down their blame-game because it's not ALL their fault. Conservatives, if I recall, believe in free trade and less trade barriers, as opposed to Liberals who believe in protectionism and are pro-union (well in Canada's case that more in the NDP's sphere, as opposed to America where Democrats would also be pro-union).

I immigrated to Canada on an investor's visa due to my father's investing in one of your banks, which made my family and I automatic landed immigrants.  These investors' visas is the kind of "free trade" encouraged  by Conservatives. If the NDP or the Liberals were actually buying the immigrant vote as you were saying, those immigrants who came on investor's visas would not be here because of Liberal/NDP protectionism/unionism. And these investor immigrants are JUST AS LIKELY to have the same bad habits you hate as those who immigrated due to work sponsorship or marriage (or those who came illegaly  and refuse to leave). For example, (I'll use an American example), a Korean girl I knew from my US college told me her mother owns a huge business in New York, but the mother doesn't speak a word of English and doesn't seem interested in learning!

It may seem to you that I am shooting myself in the foot by pointing out this fact even though I have Liberal leanings. But still, my only point is that it's not all the Liberals'//NDP's fault and I thus want to point out the investor immigrant visa example as something that contributes to  your seeing "multiculturalism" as problem. Still, I am NOT ungrateful to the Conservatives that I was lucky enough to come to Canada and not ungrateful to them for encouraging this type of "free trade" immigration, in spite of my liberal leanings, which I have had since I was a foreign student in the United States.

George,

Perhaps you are right, perhaps it should not be a govt. institution, but more of a latent value, that does not need to be highlighted. However, we should not dismiss it altogether as a value/concept similar to America's melting pot concept.


PS
If you any of you are still curious, for one to immigrate here on the business/investor visa status, they must pay $400,000 Canadian and invest it in a local bank, without interest, for up to five years. This is in contrast to the United States, where one must invest US $1 million dollars in an urban area or US $500,000 in a rural area and they have further criteria such as that your investment "must generate jobs for at least ten US citizens". Look up USCIS rules www.uscis.gov if you don't believe me about the US rules.

 
I was referring more towards people who come here on thin or false refugee claims.  If someone comes here with $400 000 to spend, I can't imagine them being a burden to our society. 
Where the Liberals and NDP get ripped is because they are so bloody concerned with everyone elses "feelings".  There is no reason to continue flogging this politically correct agenda, yet they push it for the sake of pushing it.  Conservatives tend to be more along the lines of "let's see what you have to offer, then we'll see what to think of you". 
I can't stand hearing people getting wrapped around the axle about "they should feel welcome here".  Why?  When I started my job, I was greeted, but not welcomed.  I had to grab a big slice of STFU and just blend and learn.  Once I had proven that I was worth my salt, I found acceptance from my peers.  I think that is what bugs a lot of people about this push for multiculturalism.  Jimmy Immigrant comes here and settles into his new life.  Great.  Welcome. Good Luck.  But at such time as Jimmy says "I'm not a Christian and I don't want the school that my kids are going to (that I don't pay taxes for, because I am new and on the free ride) to sing Christmas carols in class, because they might feel excluded" that is when the rest of us say "whoa!  Dude, you just got here.  Step off!"  But then you have some Liberal/NDP type who (out of white mans burden, or just to be a self righteous arse) step up and say "Hey!  You have to respect that persons culture!"  So then, unless you are outspoken and/or hold strong views, people go "Jeez, I don't want to seem like I'm disrespectful" and they back off.  And little by little people don't speak up, and people don't make a stand.  All of a sudden, all of the front line bureaucracy is so terrified of getting A COMPLAINT!! OOOO!  Not a complaint!  God no!  So they jump the gun "just in case" and put rules in place and change traditions to appease.....who?  I just don't get it.  Somebody has to be willing to tell people to go pound it.  Politely, but firmly none the less.  Everyone (and not just different cultures) needs to get their heads around the idea that maybe, just maybe, from time to time they may have to somehow deal with the crushing reality of not getting appeased.  Denial of gratification is the hardest thing to teach children.  Why are we allowing adults to forget too? 
 
Multi-Culturalism succeeds because of the Canadian Culture, if you allow the Canadian culture to become to suppressed in a effort to be inclusive you will destroy the binding agent that keeps the other cultures in check.

Canadian Culture has to be dominant, while allowing and defining what other cultures bring as good and acceptable, in essence it becomes the rule book for the other cultures to play by. Our problem is that certain elements in Canada want to throw the rule book out as they see as “oppressive” or old-fashioned or colonistic. To do otherwise is to ignore human history and to live a dream world with no basis in reality. 
 
Colin P and Zipperhead Cop,

Canadian Culture has to be dominant, while allowing and defining what other cultures bring as good and acceptable, in essence it becomes the rule book for the other cultures to play by. Our problem is that certain elements in Canada want to throw the rule book out as they see as “oppressive” or old-fashioned or colonistic. To do otherwise is to ignore human history and to live a dream world with no basis in reality.

Well not all immigrants see Canadian culture as a threat to their own. Most embrace it. I DO AGREE that it's frustrating that some members of MINORITY cultures who do settle here are THEMSELVES NARROW-MINDED and refuse to accept the host culture. I've encountered Hindu-Pakistani (No offence to any of that origin in this forum) people over the phone who don't know a single world of English who live in Surrey, BC.  I've encountered Chinese (No offence meant again- I'm not inconsiderate of others' feelings) in the US who've are US-born, but have such a strong accent and such a lack of command of English that it makes me wonder whether they spent their whole life in Chinatown (like those in San Francisco or Monterrey Park/Alhambra near Los Angeles).

But still, I do agree it's important that Canadian culture must predominate, but still insist that we have at least keep multiculturalism AS A PRINCIPLE OR VALUE if not an institution so that any patriotism might not be twisted by bigots (whether minority or not) into a future form of racism or even reverse-racism.  I'm NOT asking for a Canadian version of Affirmative Action in my advocating multiculturalism, just saying it's a value that keeps a diverse community united and cohesive in spite of all those differences. Just the very concept of being Canadian- the duality of French and English culture- is multicultural in itself.


Multi-Culturalism succeeds because of the Canadian Culture, if you allow the Canadian culture to become to suppressed in a effort to be inclusive you will destroy the binding agent that keeps the other cultures in check

Ditto, Colin. I couldn't agree with you more.  :cdn:


 
Colin P said:
Multi-Culturalism succeeds because of the Canadian Culture, if you allow the Canadian culture to become to suppressed in a effort to be inclusive you will destroy the binding agent that keeps the other cultures in check.

Canadian Culture has to be dominant, while allowing and defining what other cultures bring as good and acceptable, in essence it becomes the rule book for the other cultures to play by. Our problem is that certain elements in Canada want to throw the rule book out as they see as “oppressive” or old-fashioned or colonistic. To do otherwise is to ignore human history and to live a dream world with no basis in reality. 

+1!

Havent heard it expressed in those words before but 'binding agent' sounds like a pretty good description...
 
>but still insist that we have at least keep multiculturalism AS A PRINCIPLE OR VALUE

I have a novel idea.  Let's refer to it (the principle/value) as "freedom of belief" and "freedom of association" and "freedom of expression" and "freedom to pursue self-fulfillment", write those into a Charter of Rights, and repeal all other legislation mentioning "multiculturalism" so that we shrink the unfathomable volume of laws (for which ignorance is no excuse of violation) and no-one gets any weird ideas about who should pay for what.
 
Copyright, fair dealings, yada yada:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Columnis...8/1638909.html
(link no longer works)

Divided loyalties
Sociology prof warns multiculturalism 'creates nations within a nation'

By Licia Corbella

Dr. Mahfooz Kanwar recently attended Calgary's largest mosque for a funeral.

At one point in the proceedings, a man Kanwar has known for more than three decades led the prayers.

"He was saying in Urdu (the official language of Pakistan): 'Oh, God, protect us from the infidels, who pollute us with their vile ways,'" recalls Kanwar, a professor of sociology at Mount Royal College in Calgary.

"I stood up and grabbed him by the lapels, which was shocking even to me because I have never done anything like that in my life and I said: 'How dare you attack my country.' And then I addressed the crowd and said: 'I have known this man for more than 30 years and he has been on welfare for almost all of those years.' "

Kanwar chuckles at the memory.

"Then I said to this semi-literate man, 'you should thank me and those you call infidels.'

"He asked me why and I said: 'Because the taxes I pay are putting food on your table as are the taxes of the so-called "infidels.' "

Most Canadians and many Muslims would applaud Dr. Kanwar's righteous outburst. But guess which of the two men is no longer welcome at the Sarcee Tr. S.W. mosque?

Not the intolerant, hate-spewing semi-literate. No, it's Dr. Kanwar who's persona non grata.

That, says Kanwar, is just one of numerous instances he has experienced as a result of the culture of ignorance and intolerance that permeates so many mosques in Canada and throughout the world.

In light of the arrests two weeks ago of 17 young Muslim Canadian men who are alleged to have planned terrorist attacks against their fellow Canadians that included attacking Parliament, seizing the CBC and beheading the prime minister, Kanwar says it's vitally important for Canadians to start making more demands of those who immigrate to this country.

Kanwar says we now know one of the 17 accused was allowed to spew hatred and calls to violent jihad at a Toronto-area mosque and he was never once told by the leadership there to stop.

Six of the young men who listened to him are also charged in the plot.

Kanwar is pretty certain, if he spoke up at that mosque, however, with his message that Canada's culture is better than the culture found in any Islamic-based country, he'd be kicked out.

"The policy of official multiculturalism is a disaster," says Kanwar, who ironically once headed a government-funded multicultural organization in Calgary in the early '70s.

Every year, Kanwar's organization would host a large food and crafts festival in the basement of the Jubilee Auditorium.

"There were 52 tables, each with two flags on them -- Polish and Canadian, Ukrainian and Canadian etc. When the Alberta minister in charge of funding the festival showed up, I asked him, 'why is there not even one table here with a single flag -- why is there no Canadian table?'"

Kanwar has been questioning the government-funded official multicultural model ever since -- most recently through his 2002 book: Journey to Success, which is used as a sociology textbook at Mount Royal College and other post-secondary institutions.

"Multiculturalism creates nations within a nation and divides the loyalty of people," says the 65-year-old Pakastani-born Kanwar, who immigrated to Canada in 1966.

"It allows people to marginalize themselves. It endangers us all as these recent arrests show."

Because of Kanwar's open and published opposition to Ontario's proposal last year to consider allowing sharia law for arbitration purposes in that province, Kanwar says he has been issued with fatwahs -- not the death-threat versions made famous by the one issued against Salman Rushdie for writing the novel The Satanic Verses -- but more like a shunning.

Kanwar, a devout Muslim, says he has essentially been excommunicated by Calgary's mosques because he is too tolerant of others.

Homa Arjomand, who lives in Toronto and headed Canada's successful campaign of the International Campaign Against Sharia Court in Canada (www.nosharia.com), says like Kanwar, she too once embraced the idea of multiculturalism.

Arjomand, who calls herself a "victim" of sharia law -- a strict set of rules based on Islam's holy book, the Qur'an, that subjugates women, as well as allows for the chopping off of hands for theft etc. -- says part of the reason she decided to immigrate to Canada was because she had heard about official multiculturalism.

"I thought how wonderful, but not anymore," she declares.

"I came here for Canadian values, not sharia values. I fled Iran on horseback because the values there threatened my very life. If people want to live under sharia or the way they lived back home, let them go back," she said.

Kanwar agrees. He says the time has come for the Canadian government to tell new immigrants "once you're in Canada we expect you to be totally devoted to Canada -- no divided loyalties."

"This country," added Kanwar, "is a democracy and democracy is founded on Christian principles.

"Canada is -- like it or not, take it or leave it -- a country founded on Christian principles where the vast majority of citizens are Christians," said Kanwar.

"Yes, there's separation of church and state but even that was a principle founded by Christians and Christianity.

"If Muslims, or anyone else, doesn't like living in a land filled with Christians or in a democracy they should get the hell out."

 
wow... I like Dr. Kanwar... he expresses my sentiments...exactly. :eek:
 
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