The Great Gun Control Debate
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FJAG said:
That's referencing the Scalia judgement I mentioned earlier. We don't seem to hear much about the actual wording of that judgement in the US discourse (or screaming match...) about gun control. I think the anti-gunners see Heller VS DC as a defeat for them (and best forgotten about), while the NRA, etc may not really be comfortable with Scalia's conclusions since they clearly open the door for states to pass reasonable restrictions. Or maybe they're a bit shocked that a jurist often regarded as an icon of conservatism could actually write those words.
FJAG
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Let me try add some of my own context as to the 'left' and their abhorrence to the AR-15 and similar.
I find firearms owners more cognizant of the law and limitations. They want discussions with facts. Not emotion. They are in fact, the SME's on firearms.
I find the 'left' are too eager to jump on board with their condemnation of everything firearm. They like big rallies and lots of screaming and if it only saves one child stuff. They like forcing others to bend to their will. They seldom have the 'truthful' facts and try win arguments by demonizing anyone in opposition to their cause célèbre at the time. Thery knee jerk. They don't think things through to conclusion. Their whole cause is based on emotion, not education.
Case in point. Post this public on your FB page and watch the reactions. Lots of you are military with military friends that will notice the difference. There are tons of people that will 'dislike' your post, because it depicts that dreaded assault rifle. You will see emotion, not knowledge.
I find firearms owners more cognizant of the law and limitations. They want discussions with facts. Not emotion. They are in fact, the SME's on firearms.
I find the 'left' are too eager to jump on board with their condemnation of everything firearm. They like big rallies and lots of screaming and if it only saves one child stuff. They like forcing others to bend to their will. They seldom have the 'truthful' facts and try win arguments by demonizing anyone in opposition to their cause célèbre at the time. Thery knee jerk. They don't think things through to conclusion. Their whole cause is based on emotion, not education.
Case in point. Post this public on your FB page and watch the reactions. Lots of you are military with military friends that will notice the difference. There are tons of people that will 'dislike' your post, because it depicts that dreaded assault rifle. You will see emotion, not knowledge.
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in fairness, recceguy prefaced his comment as "context". Lots of that going around, but more directly to his post, i assume, is that facts don't matter with a discussion about rifles that look like assault rifles.
Jarnhamar
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Movie starts stopped assaulting/enabling each other long enough to hold the Oscars.
A lot of movie stars make millions off ultra violent movies or movies with guns.
Before the Oscars there was alot of talk about people there wearing little gun control pins on behalf of everytown.
People at the Oscars brought up gun control a bunch of times.
People at the Oscars were protected by armed security with handguns and AR15 rifles with high capacity magazines.
Movie stars should stfu about gun control.
A lot of movie stars make millions off ultra violent movies or movies with guns.
Before the Oscars there was alot of talk about people there wearing little gun control pins on behalf of everytown.
People at the Oscars brought up gun control a bunch of times.
People at the Oscars were protected by armed security with handguns and AR15 rifles with high capacity magazines.
Movie stars should stfu about gun control.
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Jarnhamar said:
All celebs should be given a burner phone with 911 programmed into it. If they get into trouble, just hit the button and wait for John and Ponch to show up. Good enough for us hicks out in the toolies, good enough for Liam Wotsisgob.
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We have to quit blaming games, movies....and guns for the problems and concentrate on human nature. There is not a single data point out there to positively say that anything other than the shooter is responsible.
Penn Gillette said it best (paraphrasing mine) 'Shakespeare is full of graphic murder, deceit, stabbings, poisoning, etc. We teach him in school. No one has ever tried to blame Shakespeare for the stabbings, poisonings or violent murders because someone read his play. You cannot blame the arts. Blame the shooter.'
Penn Gillette said it best (paraphrasing mine) 'Shakespeare is full of graphic murder, deceit, stabbings, poisoning, etc. We teach him in school. No one has ever tried to blame Shakespeare for the stabbings, poisonings or violent murders because someone read his play. You cannot blame the arts. Blame the shooter.'
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There was an incident this week at a school in the US.
An ISIS sympathiser tried to blow up a school cafeteria but his explosive failed.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/07/isis-inspired-utah-teen-tried-to-blow-up-high-school-police-say.html
I haven't seen anything on TV at all. Where are the democrats and anti gun people? Not a peep.
Obviously, they are not concerned with student deaths, but only the means. So IEDs and knives get no press, but those terrible fully semi automatic, clip fed 'assault rifle' guns get to carry the brunt of the vexatious left. It's about gun control, not student welfare.
An ISIS sympathiser tried to blow up a school cafeteria but his explosive failed.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2018/03/07/isis-inspired-utah-teen-tried-to-blow-up-high-school-police-say.html
I haven't seen anything on TV at all. Where are the democrats and anti gun people? Not a peep.
Obviously, they are not concerned with student deaths, but only the means. So IEDs and knives get no press, but those terrible fully semi automatic, clip fed 'assault rifle' guns get to carry the brunt of the vexatious left. It's about gun control, not student welfare.
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Altair said:
The question you should be asking is how many are alive because the bomber failed. I'm sure, according to the left, he could have just walked in and bought one. I'd say the law worked. He couldn't get one so decided to use an IED. The means is immaterial. Your counterpoint would be completely invalid had the bomb worked. The kid is a nut and needs treatment. I guess it may be time to ban household chemicals.
Altair
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my point would be immaterial if the bomb worked, true, but it is significantly harder to make a working bomb than it is to fire a trigger.recceguy said:
I'm happy the kid didn't get his hands on a gun. I'm also happy his bomb didn't work. Unfornuately, a lot more kids get their hands on working guns than working bombs, so maybe let's deal with that first and after that problem is solved we work on bombs?
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Altair said:
And there is your problem. Don't spend time trying to convince inanimate objects what to do. Or getting rid of them. Do you know how many stabbings take place in schools? In 2014 a kid took a knife to 20+ of his schoolmate. The knife didn't have the problem, the kid did. Ban knives?
It is the same as the shootings. It is not the firearm, it's the users mental condition. What you want is thorough backgrounds checks, a wait period and licensing regulations to ensure a person is capable of handling one.
Just like we have in Canada.
I would also tack an automatic, 25 year sentence, no parole or good behaviour, a full 25 years, to anyone caught with or using an illegal firearm. Right now, gangbangers and unhinged nutbars are the cause of the problems and increases that Goodale is trying to prove. Not law abiding, licensed and trained gun owners. I, and every other gun owner in Canada, are checked on a daily basis in the Canadian Police Information Centre (CPIC), because I own a firearm. No other citizen, criminal or otherwise, receives that kind of scrutiny from law enforcement and government other than gun owners. Yet we are the ones preyed on by the government. Not the criminals and not the mentally incapacitated. Imagine, if all the money (millions and millions) that the liebrals have wasted on trying to control a piece of machinery, had gone into mental health care instead.
You need priorities and trying to take away all guns in today's society is an impossible and ludicrous solution that will end up costing billions with very little effect to those that want to break the law. I the meantime, you push mental health off the table and feed it scraps to the detriment of all society.
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I call BS on that. It’s not very hard to make a bomb with stuff that is just lying around. I was doing this for kicks (out in the back forty, of course) when I was a pre teen. No thought was ever given to actually hurt people though. Just like using firecrackers and fireworks. It is and always will be about the sick mind not the tool or implement.Altair said:
Jarnhamar
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[quote author=Altair] .
How many kids are alive now because the ISIS sympathiser didn't use a AR 15?
[/quote]
There are school shootings with Ar15s present and no one dying.
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[quote author=Altair] .
How many kids are alive now because the ISIS sympathiser didn't use a AR 15?
[/quote]
There are school shootings with Ar15s present and no one dying.
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The dastardly AR-15 has been around, for sale as a sporting rifle, since the '60s. A 14 year old could buy one from the Sear and Roebuck catalogue. So why are these shootings only taking place in recent history? I'd say it likely has something to do with the total breakdown in the family unit. Respect, humanity and fairness are taught at home. In the eight years of Obama, poverty stricken single mothers have skyrocketed to approx 70% of that demographic and most of those kids have no father figure. I'd say that may be a good place to look and start.
Almost every kid that goes on a rampage is described as an outcast, solitary, a loner. In reality many were treated that way by the other students and staff. They were bullied and that's why they go back to their school for payback.
That is a mental health problem.
Almost every kid that goes on a rampage is described as an outcast, solitary, a loner. In reality many were treated that way by the other students and staff. They were bullied and that's why they go back to their school for payback.
That is a mental health problem.
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