The Next Canadian Government

[dimsum]

Don't confuse religion and church, belief and people.

People can be bastards regardless of what they believe.

Absolutely, but if there is a system that is essentially “just trust the Pastor/Imam/Rabbi/etc because he knows best, and he is the only gateway to the Man Upstairs so you can’t fact-check it yourself”…people are going to abuse it.

As Chris Rock’s character (Rufus the 13th Apostle) in Dogma says:

• Rufus : He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
  
  Bethany : Having beliefs isn't good?
  
  Rufus : I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier...

 

[brihard]

Absolutely, but if there is a system that is essentially “just trust the Pastor/Imam/Rabbi/etc because he knows best, and he is the only gateway to the Man Upstairs so you can’t fact-check it yourself”…people are going to abuse it.

As Chris Rock’s character (Rufus the 13th Apostle) in Dogma says:

• Rufus : He still digs humanity, but it bothers Him to see the shit that gets carried out in His name - wars, bigotry, televangelism. But especially the factioning of all the religions. He said humanity took a good idea and, like always, built a belief structure on it.
  
  Bethany : Having beliefs isn't good?
  
  Rufus : I think it's better to have ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier...

Underneath the layers of Kevin Smith crude humour, Dogma was pretty brilliant.

 

[dapaterson]

Underneath the layers of Kevin Smith crude humour, Dogma was pretty brilliant.

Tell a person that you're the Metatron and they stare at you blankly. Mention something out of a Charlton Heston movie and suddenly everybody is a theology scholar.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

You mean like "...From my dead cold hands!", which MiB turned into a wonderful joke.

MiB from my dead cold hands - Search Videos

www.bing.com

 

[Kirkhill]

Absolutely, but if there is a system that is essentially “just trust the Pastor/Imam/Rabbi/etc because he knows best, and he is the only gateway to the Man Upstairs so you can’t fact-check it yourself”…people are going to abuse it.

Or you can just trust the PM/GG/Pres/Science Advisor etc because she knows best.

 

[dimsum]

Or you can just trust the PM/GG/Pres/Science Advisor etc because she knows best.

The idea is that those people consult with the subject matter experts to inform their opinion.

As opposed to the religious examples, who are also the subject matter experts and would have absolutely no stake in pressing their claims.

 

[Kirkhill]

The idea is that those people consult with the subject matter experts to inform their opinion.

As opposed to the religious examples, who are also the subject matter experts and would have absolutely no stake in pressing their claims.

But ultimately it is up to you to decide if you trust the person.

 

[lenaitch]

But ultimately it is up to you to decide if you trust the person.

True enough, but in a functioning civil society, we are all bound by rules we might not personally agree with.

 

[Kirkhill]

True enough, but in a functioning civil society, we are all bound by rules we might not personally agree with.

Stipulated.

But we end up circling back to that conscience thingy and how firmly held your personal beliefs are. And occasionally one finds oneself with divided loyalties. The Army or My Family for example.

 

[lenaitch]

Stipulated.

But we end up circling back to that conscience thingy and how firmly held your personal beliefs are. And occasionally one finds oneself with divided loyalties. The Army or My Family for example.

Indeed, sometime more than occasionally depending on the circumstances. We had a Black Lab that we watched assessing the birthday cake that was left on the table; obedience/training vs. stomach. It chose the cake.

 

[Brad Sallows]

True enough, but in a functioning civil society, we are all bound by rules we might not personally agree with.

Rules are suggestions to the thinking person.

The only people who truly follow rules are the ones who do it when no-one is looking.

 

[dimsum]

Rules are suggestions to the thinking person.

The thinking person would know which rules to break, and when, vs which ones to uphold at all times.

If I’m at a 4-way stop in a small town with no other cars anywhere, and I can see for miles, I might not stop. But I wouldn’t say it’s a “suggestion” - it’s a calculated risk (as in I might not see a bike or something small going across).

The only people who truly follow rules are the ones who do it when no-one is looking.

That is “ethics”.

 

[brihard]

Indeed, sometime more than occasionally depending on the circumstances. We had a Black Lab that we watched assessing the birthday cake that was left on the table; obedience/training vs. stomach. It chose the cake.

When act one is “Lab”, we all know how act three goes.

 

[dimsum]

When act one is “Lab”, we all know how act three goes.

Surprisingly, I was at a friends’ house and they had a 2-year old Black Lab who was so chill I thought he was drugged.

I’ve seen him (the dog) a few times and no, that’s just his attitude towards everything.

 

[Remius]

This dog made a calculation and I’m pretty sure even though he didn’t win or get a treat at the end, that it was all worth it.

 

[dimsum]

This dog made a calculation and I’m pretty sure even though he didn’t win or get a treat at the end, that it was all worth it.

“I regret nothing”

 

[dapaterson]

When act one is “Lab”, we all know how act three goes.

 

[Kirkhill]

Rules are suggestions to the thinking person.

The only people who truly follow rules are the ones who do it when no-one is looking.

The thinking person would know which rules to break, and when, vs which ones to uphold at all times.

If I’m at a 4-way stop in a small town with no other cars anywhere, and I can see for miles, I might not stop. But I wouldn’t say it’s a “suggestion” - it’s a calculated risk (as in I might not see a bike or something small going across).


That is “ethics”.

You and Brad are in agreement on what rules to obey and when?

 

[Kirkhill]

Rules are suggestions to the thinking person.

The only people who truly follow rules are the ones who do it when no-one is looking.

If no-one is looking, if there is no-one at the stop light, then there is no "society". If there is no society then rules are not necessary.

How was it defined? The right to swing your fist ends where the other man's nose begins? No noses in evidence? Swing away! On the other hand the absence of noses would also mean there was no inclination to swing in the first place.

 

[lenaitch]

View attachment 88703

It was that, plus icing back to the ears and a look of no regret.

If no-one is looking, if there is no-one at the stop light, then there is no "society". If there is no society then rules are not necessary.

Give than argument a try when you get caught on radar, a red light camera or forgot to report that T5 income and let us know how it works out.
At what point does taking a calculated risk become a sovereign citizen.?