The Poppy Selling Superthread- Merged

[PMedMoe]

Is there a safety pin version of the Poppy anywhere? Every time I wear one, I tend to injure myself with it in some way like stabbing myself on the chest, scratching my arms while taking off my coat or purse/backpack, etc.

Take an eraser off the end of a pencil and put it on the end of the pin.  Or, snip off the pointy and and then bend it so it stays on.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Use the back from an earring.

 

[PMedMoe]

Use the back from an earring.

Excellent idea!

 

[Bass ackwards]

Is there a safety pin version of the Poppy anywhere? Every time I wear one, I tend to injure myself with it in some way like stabbing myself on the chest, scratching my arms while taking off my coat or purse/backpack, etc.

Go here:
http://poppysaver.com/home.htm

This place was mentioned to me earlier in this thread, actually. I've since ordered from there. They don't take credit cards or use paypal. My cheque and their poppysavers passed each other in the mail (it seemed like a very old fashioned way to do business - but I kinda like it).

 

[PMedMoe]

That's the one I was thinking about.  Use the pin off the back of an old (or broken) DEU name tag.  Works great, and it's free.

 

[observor 69]

In an email from a friend and on Snopes :

Back in September, on the first day of school, Martha Cothren, a social studies teacher at Robinson High School, did something not to be forgotten. On the first day of school, with the permission of the school superintendent, the principal and the building supervisor, she removed all of the desks out of her classroom.

When the first period kids entered the room they discovered that there were no desks.

'Ms.. Cothren, where're our desks?'

She replied, 'You can't have a desk until you tell me how you earn the right to sit at a desk.'

They thought, 'Well, maybe it's our grades.'

'No,' she said.

'Maybe it's our behaviour.'

She told them, 'No, it's not even your behaviour.'

And so, they came and went, the first period, second period, third period. Still no desks in the classroom.

By early afternoon television news crews had started gathering in Ms. Cothren's classroom to report about this crazy teacher who had taken all the desks out of her room.

The final period of the day came and as the puzzled students found seats on the floor of the deskless classroom, Martha Cothren said, 'Throughout the day no one has been able to tell me just what he/she has done to earn the right to sit at the desks that are ordinarily found in this classroom. Now I am going to tell you.'

At this point, Martha Cothren went over to the door of her classroom and opened it.

Twenty-seven (27) War Veterans, all in uniforms, walked into that classroom, each one carrying a school desk. The Vets began placing the school desks in rows, and then they would walk over and stand alongside the wall... By the time the last soldier had set the final desk in place those kids started to understand, perhaps for the first time in their lives, just how the right to sit at those desks had been earned..

Martha said, 'You didn't earn the right to sit at these desks. These heroes did it for you. They placed the desks here for you. Now, it's up to you to sit in them. It is your responsibility to learn, to be good students, to be good citizens. They paid the price so that you could have the freedom to get an education. 'Don't ever forget it.'


Please consider passing this along so others won't forget that the freedoms we have in this great country were earned by War Veterans.  On November 11th, please remember to pause for a minute:

    For those who paid the supreme price "They shall grow not old as we who are left grow old. 
    Age shall not weary them nor the years condemn.               
    At the going down of the sun, and in the morning, We Will Remember Them".

 

[muskrat89]

As a member I have discovered that the Legion has become very slanted towards Associate Members and is viewed as a social club designed for their benefit.

Guys - I am not going to slag the Legion, and I was a member and still believe that they have some good branches and do some good work. That being said, if there is no alternative veterans' organization in your area, you may be able to create one. Quite a few years ago, frustrated by what many of you are describing, a few of us in our community contacted the ANAVETS. I am proud to say we were New Brunswick's first unit, and I was a Charter member (and first president). The Unit focuses on community service and assisting/recognizing veterans - not bunfights, not bar sales. I think that most members enjoy belonging and many continue to hold memberships in both organizations.

 

[CountDC]

Here is the Aussie poppy, and another pic of the memorial wall at Canberra's Australian War Memorial.

Regards,

OWDU

Can we trade?  Looks a lot better than ours.

 

[Blackadder1916]

The “Poppy” is not the only floral symbol of Remembrance for some Canadians – well, they (if 60 years or older) weren’t Canadians when that alternate practice was more widespread.

The blue “Forget-Me-Not” was worn in Newfoundland on it’s “day of commemoration”, July 1, Memorial Day.  November 11 was (back then in my youth) more commonly known as “Armistice Day”; however as we had already joined Canada, it was being equally celebrated as mainland ideas were being adopted.  I had not thought of it in many years but was reminded of forget-me-nots (ironically, I had forgotten) during a recent phone conversation with family back home.  Others, however, had not forgotten.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/litehouseman/500216623 (photo of  forget-me-nots at link)

Taken at Bowering Park. While forget-me-nots grow wild almost everywhere, I can't think of anything more symbolic of Newfoundland in early summer; particularly as it relates to the tragic losses suffered by the Royal Newfoundland Regiment on July 1st, 1916 during the first day of the Battle of the Somme. Interestingly, the forget-me-not was adopted as a flower of rememberance by Newfoundlanders during the Great War some time before the allies had considered the red poppies associated with McCrae's "In Flanders Fields". The Forget-Me-Not is still worn on Newfoundland's Memorial Day which occurs on July 1st.

A MUN graduate at Beaumont Hamel November 8, 1997

The ceremony of remembrance was followed by the dedication of the Newfoundland Beaumont Hamel Memorial Park as a Canadian National Historic site, the first one outside Canada.  . . . .  A poignant touch was added by the members of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment Band when they each took their forget-me-not flowers from their hats and placed them on the Danger Tree, a replica of the stump of a tree that marked the beginning of No Man's Land, a marker few men reached that first of July.

Though not a Newfoundlander, I had two reasons to be at Beaumont Hamel: first, to remember soldiers from my part of the world, the Second Battalion South Wales Borderers, who also suffered heavy casualties in the first wave; and second, I graduated from Memorial University in 1974 and hope I made my own small contribution to Newfoundland and as a representative of MUN by wearing a Memorial University tie for the ceremony.

This was a day I shall never forget. There were many very proud Newfoundlanders present (and a Welshman) this day, on a small piece of land in Northern France that will always be part of Newfoundland!

Note: Memorial University was originally founded as a living memorial to those Newfoundlanders who gave their lives in service in the First World War.

And a colour party from The Royal Canadian Legion Zone Europe was at Beaumont Hamel in 2001 {as they have been on many Memorial Days}.
http://www.rcl-europe.org/Beaumont_Hamel/B_H.html

This year's ceremony was special in a number of ways. For several years, since Steve Austin was promoted in the Veteran Affairs Organization and moved back to Canada the Beaumont-Hamel Park had no director. Consequently the yearly ceremony to put it bluntly was in a chaotic mess. This year a new Director Ms. Arlene King who along with Steve's assistance finally got the ceremony back on track. In addition following the Remembrance Ceremony a new pavilion was opened on the grounds dedicated to the memory of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment. Finally it was a welcome relief that our Legion Colour Party was once again made to feel as an appreciated part of the ceremony.

Also in attendance at this years ceremony was an Honour Guard from the 1st Royal Newfoundland Regiment accompanied by the Regimental Band. The Bandmaster came and talked to us and presented every member of the Colour Party with a forget-me-not flower. The forget-me-not is the flower that Newfoundlanders wore at Ceremony of Remembrance prior to joining the rest of Canada and adopting the poppy.

And this from the Lt -Gov of Nfld  (and HCol - at that time Ed Roberts) - an excerpt from a Speech by His Honour, Honorary Colonel of the Royal Newfoundland Regiment, at a Dinner tendered to the Regiment by the Government of Canada at Espace Gobelins, Roubaix, France 29 June 2006

In the years after the War, we developed our own traditions, our own ways of remembering our heroes. The Regiment pays honour to the Ode to Newfoundland, our anthem, in the same way as we today honour O Canada, the anthem of our new country. We stand to attention, and the officers salute. We shall do so on Saturday, at Beaumont Hamel.

And we shall be wearing our Forget-Me-Nots. The little flower has been worn on Memorial Day since the first Commemoration Day in St. Johns, on 1 July 1917 - a year, to the day, after Beaumont Hamel. It is a small flower, but a mighty symbol of those whom we still remember - those we still honour. Every Newfoundlander and Labradorian at Beaumont Hamel will be wearing a Forget-Me-Not on Saturday: those of us who will be in uniform, will be wearing one too. And we hope that everybody at the Caribou Memorial will also do so.

July 1st is Canadas National Day, the day when our country was formed officially in 1867. But to Newfoundlanders and Labradorians, July 1st is also Memorial Day, because it is the anniversary of Beaumont Hamel. In the morning, we gather at our National War Memorial - in St. Johns, overlooking the beach where Sir Humphrey Gilbert claimed Newfoundland in behalf of the first Queen Elizabeth in 1583 - to lay our wreaths, and play the Last Post. We still fly the Union Jack there that morning.

In the afternoon, we celebrate Canada as Canadians. There is no one of us who is not proud to be a Canadian, but our pride in Newfoundland and Labrador stands equal with our pride in Canada. Saluting our Ode and wearing the Forget-Me-Not doesnt detract in one iota from the pride with which we wear uniforms with Canada on our shoulder flashes, or the respect with which we salute when O Canada is played. Im old enough to be able to say with truth that I was born a Newfoundlander, but I also say with equal truth and force that I am a Canadian. Each loyalty strengthens the other: there is no conflict between them.

 

[Edward Campbell]

...
November 11 was (back then in my youth) more commonly known as “Armistice Day”

It was when I was a youngster, out West, too. I rather miss that name - an old timer's nostalgia, I suppose - even though I think Remembrance Day is more properly descriptive.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Poppy-wearing is not simple


By Janice Kennedy, The Ottawa CitizenNovember 8, 2009


Janice Kennedy

Janice Kennedy
Photograph by: The Ottawa Citizen, The Ottawa Citizen

Canadians across the spectrum subscribe enthusiastically to the sustaining mythology of the poppy, Remembrance Day and our veterans.

(Especially in recent years. A generation ago, veterans were not always so unconditionally embraced, particularly by our institutions -- not when there were still so many of them around, with their array of postwar social needs and complex challenges.) Today's poppy is our "Lest We Forget" token, a bracing national symbol that allows all Canadians to pay necessary respect in a uniformly inoffensive way. United for one brief period each year by this great Canadian cultural leveller, poppy-wearers cross boundaries of age, class, politics and levels of cool.

Most of us wouldn't dream of stepping out on a November day without that little crimson flower pinned to our lapels.

But it's become more complicated lately. Where once the poppy was an unencumbered way to honour what we rightly call "the greatest generation," today it's all tied up in the ongoing moral dilemma that is Afghanistan. How can you pay tribute to those who sacrificed more than 60 years ago and not pay tribute to those who are doing the same today? But how can you do that while maintaining your opposition to a mission you believe ill-advised, futile and doomed? In short, poppy-wearing is not so simple any more.

Part of the problem may lie in our ongoing love affair with war, which, for all its tragedy, has always been big, bold, breathtaking and seductive. A broad canvas filled with portraits of kings, madmen and pawns, with clashing ideas and strategic power plays, war has enough human drama to fill a million stages a million times over.

Millennia after Homer waxed poetic about Greeks and Trojans battering one another, millennia after a biblical David and Goliath provided the timeless metaphor for transcendent struggle, millennia after Sun Tzu dissected the chess game that moves armies, war still fascinates.

Similarly, the human fallout of war -- the emotional and physical devastation of individuals, the wounds inflicted on families and communities, the grief that refuses to loosen its vise-like grip on the human heart -- this, too, has its undying appeal.

Because it's drama. And drama is what turns our cranks, thanks to an animating psychology that is partly perverse, partly empathetic.

We humans love to revel in second-hand emotion (especially at a remove, without the firsthand pain) because it speaks to our elemental instincts.

From Homer's portrait of inconsolable grief (Achilles mourning Patroclus), to the news pictures and stories of the latest Canadian military death in Afghanistan (with totemic images that have evolved into sad clichés), the emotional rituals of war's fallout are part of humanity's cultural core.

That explains, for instance, the regular turnout of people on Ontario overpasses, waving flags and wearing red, to salute funereal processions passing below. It also explains why we wear poppies in November and gather in sombre communities across the nation at the eleventh hour of the eleventh day.

The difficulty is, a line exists between legitimately honouring sacrifice, and bathing in second-hand emotion -- but it's awfully fine. And between paying proper tribute, and endorsing the indisputable evil that is war, the line is finer still.

How do I wear a poppy that recognizes the terrible sacrifice and even heroism of Second World War veterans, when so many poppies today recognize the more recent deaths in Afghanistan -- deaths I grieve, like all Canadians, but that I believe were a tragic waste? How can I wear a poppy that acknowledges, among others, Lieut. Justin Boyes, the 26-year-old who was killed last month? His widow has suggested that lack of public support for the mission is losing the war for Canadian soldiers, and I am indeed one of those non-supporters. And yet I feel for her, for her three-year-old son, and for the loss of her partner's life in a hopeless venture.

Would she be offended by my poppy, or by the poppies of all those who do not believe in war, even as they humbly acknowledge the altruism that can operate at its heart? I was struck recently by the story of Master Corp. Jody Mitic, an incredibly courageous young man who had both legs blown off almost three years ago by a Taliban bomb, and who has come back from that catastrophic setback to participate in races - churning up a fury of roadway on two artificial legs -- and raise funds for good causes. An amazing fellow, no question.

Except that he wants to get back into action in Afghanistan, like many other injured soldiers who have been interviewed. And he wants to return to his old job as a sniper. A sniper. This man who has been through so much wants to raise his rifle again to inflict the pain and suffering he himself has known, killing or maiming another human being (albeit one neatly relabelled "the enemy").

So how can I get my poppy to pay tribute to one side of Mitic, but not the other? There is nothing noble, or ennobling, about war, even if there is sometimes nobility in the hearts of those who wage it. Our poppies should acknowledge that. Remembrance Day should solemnly memorialize the sacrifices -- while recognizing the terrible failure that war represents.

There is a profound distinction between the two. And sometimes the small red flowers on our lapels tell only half the story.

Janice Kennedy writes here on Sundays.

E-mail: 4janicekennedy@gmail.com
© Copyright (c) The Ottawa Citizen

Janice Kennedy



Janice Kennedy
Photograph by: The Ottawa Citizen, The Ottawa Citizen

dileas

tess

 

[Edward Campbell]

Predictably, Ms Kennedy, who thinks only a bit less than most of her fellow citizens, misses the point.

Remembrance Day and the poppy have nothing whatsoever to do with war - any war, or politics. They are wholly and completely about sacrifice. That most people cannot quite understand that neither surprises nor dismays me.

Those who elect, for their own political purposes, to eschew the poppy find their protest lost in the deep, wide sea of bovine indifference that is Canada. Those who will not wear a poppy because they reject the sacrifice are less than human.

 

[Rheostatic]

Sure, sacrifice... made in war. Anyway I found it to be a thoughtful article, and anyone who actually takes the time to put pen to paper on the subject of remembrance probably thinks a bit more than the average citizen.

 

[helpup]

Predictably, Ms Kennedy, who thinks only a bit less than most of her fellow citizens, misses the point.

Remembrance Day and the poppy have nothing whatsoever to do with war - any war, or politics. They are wholly and completely about sacrifice. That most people cannot quite understand that neither surprises nor dismays me.

Those who elect, for their own political purposes, to eschew the poppy find their protest lost in the deep, wide sea of bovine indifference that is Canada. Those who will not wear a poppy because they reject the sacrifice are less than human.

Personally, I think less on sacrifice when it comes to the poppy.  The red poppy ( the only version I ever care to see regardless of a green center or black) reflects less on sacrifice and or war but on remembering those who have gone before us and those who go today in Afghanistan or any tour.  I do not use the poppy nor was it intended to honour those who serve but instead the poppy is a token of rememberance to those serving thier country who lost thier lives.

If you want to tie that to a sacrifice then fine, I can see that, but I dont like the word sacrifice in this sense.  ( nor in the medal's name but that is for another thread )  Those who served thier country and died for it did not do it with sacrifice in mind.  Thier reasons are many varied and wholey thier own to justify to no one else but themselves.............  The poppy is our chance to wear a symbol that shows we as a country will pause and reflect, respect and honour those of "our" brethren who have paid the ultimate price for thier country.  The reasons matter not, agreeing with the conflict does not matter either in my opinion.  But to dismiss wearing a poppy this time of year as a way of stating your oposition to a conflict you may not believe in,,,,,,,,  Is doing a huge diservice to those who have gone out and given thier lives.  There are many a Canadian on the 401 belt from Trenton to Toronto who do not believe in the war.... Yet they show up for each final journey of the fallen.  That is in it's own way what Rememberance day is suppose to be for myself...........

And yes it was orriginally for the Great War and morphed into a collective day to honour the fallen.  I for one agree with that and think we are better for it.

 

[Edward Campbell]

This is reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions (§29) of the Copyright Act from today’s Globe and Mail

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/opinions/editorials/sacrifices-made-for-humanity/article1358730/

Globe editorial:
Sacrifices made for humanity

It is hopeful that more Canadians are putting aside time on Nov. 11 to honour our veterans and the freedoms they fought for

Wednesday, Nov. 11, 2009

What do you see on the faces of the aging Canadian war veterans who stand at attention, bright red poppies on their lapels, while the Last Post is played just before 11 a.m. on Remembrance Day each year? Do you see fear? No. These are the men and women who could have hidden, or feigned an injury, or simply have refused to fight, but who instead went willingly to the trenches in both World Wars, the Korean War and in recent conflicts such as Afghanistan. Do you see anger or bitterness? No. They are men and women who lived through horrors beyond imagining and would do it again. Do you see the preening vanity of people seeking their 15 minutes of fame? No. They would be there, even if no one else was.

What you see is remembrance: the silent, communal and defiant act of refusing to consign to oblivion the memory of the irreversible sacrifices made by veterans; sacrifices made not for money, or for fame, or for personal advancement, but in the name of freedom and for the well-being of humankind.

Canada is at a crossroads. There is just one Canadian veteran of the First World War still alive, and those who fought in the Second World War are leaving us every day. The vital act of remembrance will soon be left in the hands of Canadians who have nothing to remember; who, because of the efforts of a dying generation, have not been required to put their lives on hold and their futures into doubt.

And yet participation at Canadian Remembrance Day ceremonies is increasing. Parents are taking their children out of school to attend them; alternatively, schools are bringing veterans into classrooms to share their stories. Memory projects, such as those launched by the Historica-Dominion Institute, are on the rise. Parliament has passed a motion urging Canadians to observe two minutes of silence today instead of one, a move that has been well received, and 70 per cent of respondents to a recent poll said they would support a law mandating the ritual observance of Remembrance Day.

The sacrifices of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan are undoubtedly a cause of this. Perhaps another one is that sometimes our world seems lacking in the kind of selfless heroes we see in the faces of our veterans. Whatever it is, it is hopeful that more Canadians are putting aside time on Nov. 11 to honour our veterans and the freedoms they fought for. Hopeful, and fitting.

Sacrifice is a relative word; there are degrees of sacrifice; what we honour, just for a few minutes, on Remembrance Day, is the supreme sacrifice made by 100,000+ Canadians over the last 100+ years, covering three centuries.

As I have said elsewhere, 11 November is not Veterans’ Day; we can and do honour veterans separately. Veterans started the Remembrance Day tradition because they understood that something special was required to honour those who did not survive our wars.  It (Remembrance day) is not about politics; it's not nuanced; it's all about those who "grow not old as we who are left grow old."

Ms Kennedy, and anyone else, cannot "read" anything else into it because there is nothing else: just sacrifice - which she can honour or not, period. She doesn't have any moral or intellectual room to slice and dice her political views on our cenotaphs.

 

[Braver.Stronger.Smarter.]

Perhaps this is not the correct place to post this question, if not, Mods please direct me elsewhere.

As I was watching the Remembrance Day ceremony on Global this morning, I noticed that there were several people wearing two poppies. From what I could see, they appeared to be the same poppies, just two of them. Does anyone know of the reason for this?

 

[mariomike]

"Would-be poppy-proceeds robber thwarted: Three men, including a veteran in his 80s, thwarted a would-be armed robber at an east Toronto Royal Canadian Legion who attempted to take the $10,000 in proceeds from their poppy drive.":
http://toronto.ctv.ca/servlet/an/local/CTVNews/20091112/veterans_robbery_091112/20091112/?hub=TorontoNewHome

"Poppy-box thief caught on video: Video provided by London police shows a suspect removing the poppy box from the Superstore on Oxford Street in London.":
http://video.lfpress.ca/video/featured/london-and-region/5828787001/poppy-box-thief-caught-on-video/48483779001

 

[1feral1]

Can we trade?  Looks a lot better than ours.

Yes we can, PM me your address, and I'll mail one out to you.

Sorry for my tardiness.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[dapaterson]

Perhaps this is not the correct place to post this question, if not, Mods please direct me elsewhere.

As I was watching the Remembrance Day ceremony on Global this morning, I noticed that there were several people wearing two poppies. From what I could see, they appeared to be the same poppies, just two of them. Does anyone know of the reason for this?

HRH and his Consort were wearing both Canadian and UK pattern poppies.

 

[scas]

From CTV news:

The men at the Robinson Avenue Legion branch, located on the Danforth in the city's east end, told police that an unknown man walked in with a gun at around noon Thursday while they were counting the money from their sales.

"We were just about to count the money and there were four of us in the boardroom over there," John Dietsch, 84, told reporters as a half-empty glass of beer sat in front of him.

Dietsch said that at first, he didn't see what appeared to be a handgun. "I said to the fella, 'What are you here for?' and he said, 'Give me all your bills,' and at that point, I went for his arm with the gun,' and we struggled and I went backwards and I was on the ground," he said.

"My other buddy there, he wrestled him on the ground. And then he chased him out to the street line, and he had no vehicle, so he just kept running up the street."

The would-be robber left without any money.

Asked why he reacted the way he did, Dietsch, who served with the Navy in the North Atlantic in the Second World War protecting convoys, said: "Because of the time we served in the military, and the fact we'd been out all last week collecting money with the poppies that made me think, 'You're not getting away with this.'"

However, "In retrospect, the more I think of it, I was stupid," he said.

"The police are always saying, 'You're getting held up, let them take the money. The money isn't as important as your life."

Two of the men who helped thwart the robbery weren't veterans but poppy campaign volunteers in their 60s.

The incident happened a day after thousands of Canadians gathered across the Greater Toronto Area and across Canada for Remembrance Day ceremonies honouring the country's fallen military heroes.

"I can't believe it, especially coming into the Legion," Dietsch said.

Investigators with 41 Division say they have a description of the suspect and are investigating the incident.

The suspect is described as a light-skinned black male, wearing a dark toque and dark clothing. He had a beard.