The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[Colin Parkinson]

All the more reason to shut down the **** bucket that is cold lake and move the jets back to the island where the temperature is more moderate in the winter.

yea and the USAF should abandon Alaska as well. It's the price you pay for being an Arctic country.

 

[quadrapiper]

While I'd agree generally, neither Comox nor Pat Bay would be able to support all of that.  It's not like there's tons of room to build, since they're pretty much penned in with development now.

Shouldn't there be room (to build, at least - not sure how full the existing hangars are) at Comox? Or has MPA and SAR expanded too much since the last time there were fighters, etc.?

Not arguing the advisability - just curious about how much space would be needed versus what's actually available.

 

[YZT580]

Could re-open Port Hardy.  Do wonders for the economy of the north island.  Build a complete new base with all the accessories to handle the SH fleet.  Save having to duplicate resources in several bases and allow us to build for the F35 when they are delivered in 20??

 

[Ostrozac]

Could re-open Port Hardy. 

Treasury Board considers Port Hardy to be an Isolated Post. A geographic location that imposes a fixed tour length posting isn't exactly compatible with keeping aircrew and techs current on the new airframe.

 

[dimsum]

Shouldn't there be room (to build, at least - not sure how full the existing hangars are) at Comox? Or has MPA and SAR expanded too much since the last time there were fighters, etc.?

Not arguing the advisability - just curious about how much space would be needed versus what's actually available.

Aside from 407 Sqn and 442 Sqn's hangars, there will be the new school for FWSAR. 

Another issue would be noise - SH is much louder than the legacy Hornet.  I've worked in offices near both and can definitely tell the difference.  FWIW, F-35 is supposed to be even louder than the SH.

 

[Quirky]

Pretty much sums up why the only people that invested in "our" north has been the USAF.

The USAF is properly equipped to run operations out of the north, we aren't. They can deal with a little bit of snow and each aircraft has its own little hangar during flying operations. Jets don't do well in extreme cold sitting outside all day. There hasn't been any money spent on hangar infrastructure up there in years, hangars are falling apart.

The majority of new techs are from population centres so a posting to cold lake, where you are isolated, won't keep them around for too long. It really is a shit hole.

 

[Kirkhill]

The USAF is properly equipped to run operations out of the north, we aren't. They can deal with a little bit of snow and each aircraft has its own little hangar during flying operations. Jets don't do well in extreme cold sitting outside all day. There hasn't been any money spent on hangar infrastructure up there in years, hangars are falling apart.

The majority of new techs are from population centres so a posting to cold lake, where you are isolated, won't keep them around for too long. It really is a shit hole.

No disagreement Quirky.  In fact it seems to go to my point.  We, Canadians, don't walk our talk.

 

[GK .Dundas]

No disagreement Quirky.  In fact it seems to go to my point.  We, Canadians, don't walk our talk.

In the early eighties a friend of mine told me of his attempt to sell a conversion kit to the armed force that would in under ten minutes convert any four wheeled vehicle to a tracklayer .
He got a letter back stating that basically  the Canadian Armed Forces had no interest in Arctic warfare nor would it likely have any in the future..........Yeah  :

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Was it this, JKD?

http://trucktracks.com/en/

Well, they're available on the open market if need be.

 

[dimsum]

The USAF is properly equipped to run operations out of the north, we aren't. They can deal with a little bit of snow and each aircraft has its own little hangar during flying operations. Jets don't do well in extreme cold sitting outside all day. There hasn't been any money spent on hangar infrastructure up there in years, hangars are falling apart.

The majority of new techs are from population centres so a posting to cold lake, where you are isolated, won't keep them around for too long. It really is a shit hole.

Bit of a "what-if" - what happens when the majority of pilots and maintainers are from population centres, don't take too kindly to a Cold Lake posting and get out?  Do we institute something like "stop-loss" that the US did in the 2000s?  Will it backfire (likely) and then what?  For that matter, how does the USAF keep their footprint in random places like AK, etc?

Same can be said of the Army and Shilo/Wainwright/etc.

 

[kev994]

For that matter, how does the USAF keep their footprint in random places like AK, etc?

From what I've seen, if all else fails they send someone who is under contract and is unable to refuse orders (posting message)

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Bit of a "what-if" - what happens when the majority of pilots and maintainers are from population centres, don't take too kindly to a Cold Lake posting and get out?  Do we institute something like "stop-loss" that the US did in the 2000s?  Will it backfire (likely) and then what?  For that matter, how does the USAF keep their footprint in random places like AK, etc?

Same can be said of the Army and Shilo/Wainwright/etc.

The situation in Alaska is a bit different from what you see in a place like Cold Lake, two points:

I've visited Fort Wainwright, where the 25 ID Stryker Bde is located.  It's right beside Fairbanks, which is a city whose metro area is about the same as Fredericton, NB.  It isn't much different than being posted to Gagetown.  Eielson AFB is also only 26 miles from Fairbanks, so basically right beside the place.

The demographic of the US Armed Forces is a bit different from our military in that they've got far less career soldiers.  Go to a US base and you'll note that the soldiers, especially the NCOs are very young.  It's basically do your time, get fed a fire hose for a few years then get out and go to College afterwards.  It's far different from our "get a career for life" messaging. 

Our big problem is Canada is by and large a highly urbanized country, heck 1/2 of our population lives in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor.  We are not a very rural country and as a result, when we put our Military bases in the middle of nowhere and then post people from Toronto to Petawawa, of course they're going to be dissatisfied!  They've got zero appreciation of how to actually entertain themselves in a place like that.  Couple this with spouses that are probably from Toronto as well and you've got a big retention problem. 

Our issue is the recruitment pool for the military, traditionally having been rural folk from places like where I grew up (Bathurst, NB) is drying up and we haven't adjusted to that very well.

Likewise, the military has done a piss poor job investing in activities and infrastructure in places like Petawawa to give soldiers activities to keep them interested.  The CAF continually underfunds sports and leisure programs and really can't be bothered to organize anything.  Even simple adventure training is met with scorn.  The old save a dime to spend a dollar is how financial planning works in the CAF. 

Go to Deep River, Ontario where AECL is located, I used to live there.  The place is right beside Petawawa but is night and day, they've got a yacht club, cross country ski club, downhill skiing club and a bunch of different amenities and services.  Petawawa though, which is 4x the size of Deep River has basically nothing and folks are required to drive to Pembroke or Deep River for pretty much anything.

 

[Altair]

The situation is Alaska is a bit different from what you see in a place like Cold Lake, two points:

I've visited Fort Wainwright, where the 25 ID Stryker Bde is located.  It's right beside Fairbanks, which is a city whose metro area is about the same as Fredericton, NB.  It isn't much different than being posted to Gagetown.  Eielson AFB is also only 26 miles from Fairbanks, so basically right beside the place.

The demographic of the US Armed Forces is a bit different from our military in that they've got far less career soldiers.  Go to a US base and you'll note that the soldiers, especially the NCOs are very young.  It's basically do your time, get fed a fire hose for a few years then get out and go to College afterwards.  It's far different from our "get a career for life" messaging. 

Our big problem is Canada is by and large a highly urbanized country, heck 1/2 of our population lives in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor.  We are not a very rural country and as a result, when we put our Military bases in the middle of nowhere and then post people from Toronto to Petawawa, of course they're going to be dissatisfied!  They've got zero appreciation of how to actually entertain themselves in a place like that.  Couple this with spouses that are probably from Toronto as well and you've got a big retention problem. 

Our issue is the recruitment pool for the military, traditionally having been rural folk from places like where I grew up (Bathurst, NB) is drying up and we haven't adjusted to that very well.

Likewise, the military has done a piss poor job investing in activities and infrastructure in places like Petawawa to give soldiers activities to keep them interested.  The CAF continually underfunds sports and leisure programs and really can't be bothered to organize anything.  Even simple adventure training is met with scorn.  The old save a dime to spend a dollar is how financial planning works in the CAF. 

Go to Deep River, Ontario where AECL is located, I used to live there.  The place is right beside Petawawa but is night and day, they've got a yacht club, cross country ski club, downhill skiing club and a bunch of different amenities and services.  Petawawa though, which is 4x the size of Deep River has basically nothing and folks are required to drive to Pembroke or Deep River for pretty much anything.

A posting to a place like shilo or wainwright is the sign to get out for me and my family.

 

[Journeyman]

The situation in Alaska is a bit different ....

A female friend did an exchange posting with the USAF at Elmendorf Air Force Base. Her comment was that, for a woman "the odds are good...but the goods are odd."  ;D

 

[FSTO]

A posting to a place like shilo or wainwright is the sign to get out for me and my family.

You joined the wrong service if you are trying to avoid going to so called "out of the way" postings! LOL!

I'm from a farm south of Shilo (Killarney) and still love the area, so don't knock the place without ever having experienced it okay?

 

[George Wallace]

A posting to a place like Shilo or Wainwright is the sign to get out for me and my family.

After all your posts on this site, this indicates that you really have NO IDEA what you want.  Nor does it show any true dedication to the CAF on your part, with your total lack of understanding of what the CAF really is all about.  Have you not gained anything from your 'readings' of this site, (If indeed you have been reading what has been posted on this site.) and gained an understanding of what life in the CAF is like?  I am sure that any occupation one would apply for, anywhere in the world, would not change to adapt to the wants of the applicant, but expect the prospective employee to learn and follow the established workings of that occupation. 

With the above comment, I would be of the opinion that it would be best that you NOT join the CAF.  It would save a lot of time and effort, plus expense, of those who are in the Recruiting and Training Systems, and a lot less grief for those who would be in whatever Element/Branch/Unit that you may land up posted to.

 

[dimsum]

With the above comment, I would be of the opinion that it would be best that you NOT join the CAF.  It would save a lot of time and effort, plus expense, of those who are in the Recruiting and Training Systems, and a lot less grief for those who would be in whatever Element/Branch/Unit that you may land up posted to.

His profile says he's in 2CMBG HQ/Sigs. 

Do you know who doesn't get posted to Shilo/Wainwright?  Aircrew.  :nod:

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Pretty sure hard sea trades don't get posted there either.  [

 

[Jarnhamar]

Edited to keep on topic.  (save to say putting your family first is hardly lack of dedication)

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Back on topic please.