The RCAF's Next Generation Fighter (CF-188 Replacement)

[GK .Dundas]

(Boris Badeov accent) What problems ?
Mother Russians has deep and significant historical ties to these Waters....Hokay, maybe as long ago as Tuesday last... But they are still ours.
Because we say so.

 

[armrdsoul77]

This guy gets a lesson in an F35 simulator. Very impressive.

 

[Kirkhill]

F35 Replacement -

Industry target - 300 MUSD each
DoD target - 30 MUSD each

“That’s not going to happen,”

Sixth-generation fighter at F-35 costs? 'That’s not going to happen,' industry predicts. - Breaking Defense

“That’s not going to happen,” one defense industry official told Breaking Defense, adding that there are “distinct differences” in design parameters, materials and fleet sizes that drive higher costs for a sixth-generation fighter versus older, more prolific jets like the F-35 and F-15.

breakingdefense.com

If the Air Force wants to field an optionally-crewed sixth-generation fighter jet at a price around that of an F-35 or F-15EX, the only plausible option is by taking out most of the aircraft’s key mission systems — things like radar, other sensors and datalinks — and putting them into the CCAs that will fly near the jet, said a second industry official.

That would allow the service to focus on optimizing the range, improved stealth and aerodynamic performance of the sixth-generation fighter, but would have a few major downsides, the official said.

‘Quiet quitting’ NGAD​

While aerospace companies are not permitted to confirm their involvement in the ultra-secretive NGAD program, Breaking Defense understands that Lockheed Martin and Boeing were vying for the NGAD contract before the Air Force hit pause on the program this summer. (Northrop Grumman CEO Kathy Warden acknowledged last year that Northrop no longer planned to compete for NGAD, though she has since said the company could reassess that decision depending how the Air Force rescopes the competition.)

Richard Aboulafia, an aerospace analyst with AeroDynamic Advisories, said the focus on the cost-element of Kendall’s comments is burying the more significant acknowledgement from the Air Force — that it no longer needs a “super fighter” like NGAD and is more interested in disaggregating capabilities and networking them together.

Which raises the question about whether it needs a manned fighter altogether if it can just put those capabilities into drones, said Aboulafia, who joked that the Air Force may be “quiet quitting” the NGAD program.

“The idea of backing away from a next-gen super fighter is just anathema to the service’s DNA,” Aboulafia said. “There’s no doubt about its utility in all military scenarios… it’s the formula that’s always worked. No drawback at all, except, oh Jesus, it costs $300 million. And we don’t want to spend that because you’ll never get the mass you need.”

 

[GR66]

On the Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA) front, General Atomics says it could up its drone production to one every two days "without lifting a finger" and increase that to one a day in 2-3 years.

F-35's acting as stealthy sensor nodes for multiple CCA's? In a defence of North America role how advanced would you need a CCA to actually be? With F-35's, MQ-9B's, NORAD modernization and an AEW aircraft on the horizon detection of incoming missiles would be easier. A fairly simple CCA missile carrier would be a more mobile anti-missile option than more traditional GBAD alternatives. They wouldn't even need to be stealthy as there won't be Russian/Chinese fighters escorting incoming cruise missiles. GBAD could then focus on the ballistic missile defence.

 

[Kirkhill]

On the Collaborative Combat Aircraft (CCA) front, General Atomics says it could up its drone production to one every two days "without lifting a finger" and increase that to one a day in 2-3 years.

F-35's acting as stealthy sensor nodes for multiple CCA's? In a defence of North America role how advanced would you need a CCA to actually be? With F-35's, MQ-9B's, NORAD modernization and an AEW aircraft on the horizon detection of incoming missiles would be easier. A fairly simple CCA missile carrier would be a more mobile anti-missile option than more traditional GBAD alternatives. They wouldn't even need to be stealthy as there won't be Russian/Chinese fighters escorting incoming cruise missiles. GBAD could then focus on the ballistic missile defence.

General Atomics is trying to keep up with Anduril's promises and Kratos's plussed-up target drones.

GA has got used to feeding from the defence trough where modest increases in capabilities justified massive increases in costs. MQ-9 Reapers cost 30 MUSD each. MQ-25 Stingrays cost 136 MUSD. MQ-4 Tritons cost 618 MUSD each. These aircraft were all developed on the premise that they would be cheap alternatives to manned aircraft. The price structure puts them into the same category as the manned aircraft - demanding the same maintenance regimes and permitting the same production inefficiencies and the same profit margins.

Anduril says they can do it better. That remains to be seen.

Meanwhile Kratos has a long history of supplying unmanned/uncrewed flying machines that replicate the flight profiles of both missiles and manned aircraft and

• UAS Acquisition Cost: $3 million or less for the first unit up to 99 units, and $2 million or less for 100-or-greater unit quantity purchases.

Air Force To Test Target Drone Turned Low-Cost Unmanned Combat Air Vehicle

The USAF is interested to see what it can get out of a very budget-oriented UCAV.

www.twz.com

Tomahawks with Link-16 comms have been acting as One Way UAS since at least 2015 with a unit price much closer to Kratos than General Atomics.

World Naval Developments - Sharpening the Tactical Picture

www.usni.org

Tomahawk (missile family) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...

As you note, @GR66 , in the NORAD context there seems to be a role for trucks to transport missiles and bombs to targets.

 

[calculus]

This is encouraging. Two key takeaways: 1) TR3 is essentially complete, and 2) The Israelis have achieved an availability rate of 88% on their F35s.

F-35 TR-3 configuration delivery is back on track after delays - Airforce Technology

Lockheed Martin has reached about 90% of the Technology Refresh-3 (TR-3) software and hardware upgrade for the F-35 Lightning II.

www.airforce-technology.com

 

[YZT580]

As you note, @GR66 , in the NORAD context there seems to be a role for trucks to transport missiles and bombs to targets.

how many a/c are there in long term storage that could be positioned in coastal bases, adapted as drones and then given one last flight as a bomb truck for the F35 (our own F18s included)

 

[MilEME09]

how many a/c are there in long term storage that could be positioned in coastal bases, adapted as drones and then given one last flight as a bomb truck for the F35 (our own F18s included)

F-16s have been turned into drones already, I am sure with a bit more development they could work well as bomb trucks

 

[Cloud Cover]

On Question Period this morning, the Senator from the US said Canada is intentionally delaying the F35 but he didn’t say why. He said Canadian pilots serving today will never fly the F35 while half of Norway’s pilots will be trained next year. Has he got that right? It seems to me Canada is moving forward so I think (hope) he is mistaken…

 

[Colin Parkinson]

F-16s have been turned into drones already, I am sure with a bit more development they could work well as bomb trucks

Ukraine likely could in 3 weeks.

 

[suffolkowner]

On Question Period this morning, the Senator from the US said Canada is intentionally delaying the F35 but he didn’t say why. He said Canadian pilots serving today will never fly the F35 while half of Norway’s pilots will be trained next year. Has he got that right? It seems to me Canada is moving forward so I think (hope) he is mistaken…

I think
2026 4
2027 6
2028 6
2029 18
2030 18
2031 18
2032 18

 

[MilEME09]

On Question Period this morning, the Senator from the US said Canada is intentionally delaying the F35 but he didn’t say why. He said Canadian pilots serving today will never fly the F35 while half of Norway’s pilots will be trained next year. Has he got that right? It seems to me Canada is moving forward so I think (hope) he is mistaken…

Our first 18 are ordered, the biggest delay i believe is the software issues lockmart has been having

 

[armrdsoul77]

On Question Period this morning, the Senator from the US said Canada is intentionally delaying the F35 but he didn’t say why. He said Canadian pilots serving today will never fly the F35 while half of Norway’s pilots will be trained next year. Has he got that right? It seems to me Canada is moving forward so I think (hope) he is mistaken…

Earlier this year...

"After a yearlong hiatus, production F-35 deliveries are resuming, but the long-awaited Block 4 upgrades will have to wait.....In March, when the F-35 was finally been cleared for full-rate production, 17 years after the aircraft first took to the air, customers were still not accepting new aircraft."

F-35 Deliveries Finally Cleared To Resume, New Jets Will Be Limited To Training

This program is still having issues to work through. Not intentional but maybe by the time we get ours it will be a more mature product.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Earlier this year...

"After a yearlong hiatus, production F-35 deliveries are resuming, but the long-awaited Block 4 upgrades will have to wait.....In March, when the F-35 was finally been cleared for full-rate production, 17 years after the aircraft first took to the air, customers were still not accepting new aircraft."

F-35 Deliveries Finally Cleared To Resume, New Jets Will Be Limited To Training

This program is still having issues to work through. Not intentional but maybe by the time we get ours it will be a more mature product.

Right. So it’s not Canada or DND or Trudeau delaying. Thank you.

 

[ytz]

On Question Period this morning, the Senator from the US said Canada is intentionally delaying the F35 but he didn’t say why. He said Canadian pilots serving today will never fly the F35 while half of Norway’s pilots will be trained next year. Has he got that right? It seems to me Canada is moving forward so I think (hope) he is mistaken…

Canada wants all F-35s to be Block IV and has included specific demands in there. Including Sidekick (allows for the internal carriage of 6 AAMs vs 4). Part of Block IV is Tech Refresh (TR-3). And that hardware upgrade has been behind. Canada will accept aircraft without Block IV software. But we will not accept aircraft without TR-3. The hardware is a much bigger deal.

As for current Canadian pilots not flying the F-35? Mostly true. With a large conversion like this, a lot of new fighter pilots will be pipelined directly into the F-35, while a lot of the existing pool of pilots keeps flying Hornets right into decommissioning. At best, maybe half of those currently on squadron will convert over.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Should we forget about crewed fighters all together and buy into drones ?

 

[PuckChaser]

Should we forget about crewed fighters all together and buy into drones ?

Kirkhill, is that you?

 

[dimsum]

Should we forget about crewed fighters all together and buy into drones ?

Even the US military is walking back from that. They are talking more about Uncrewed Collaborative Combat Aircraft “quarterbacked” by crewed aircraft.

I saw a comment that “quarterbacking” is essentially a pilot-ego-friendly way of saying “being a TACCO or an Air Battle Manager”

 

[Halifax Tar]

Lol definitely just a harmless question from a guy who is petrified of flying.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

Even the US military is walking back from that. They are talking more about Uncrewed Collaborative Combat Aircraft “quarterbacked” by crewed aircraft.

I saw a comment that “quarterbacking” is essentially a pilot-ego-friendly way of saying “being a TACCO or an Air Battle Manager”

My understanding was this was always how they intended to use the F35 long term.

DARPA put out a video years ago that explained this and also explained how this would be the method by which they defeated our adversaries investments in A2AD.