"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[RCR Grunt]

I have 2 comments ...

1)  As per the issue of liability.  No agency, not VAC or SISIP, will refuse you coverage based on what you were wearing at the time of injury, period.  I've made the calls, I've asked the questions, this is an invalid argument against unissued kit.

2)  The problems with CTS all boil down to one thing, job security.  If you're hoping that CTS will hold itself accountable for some of the terrible items it has approved for issue, you're dreaming.  If CTS ever suggested a switch to troops purchasing OTS equipment from a pre-approved list of kit, they would be out of a job.  Those personnel previously flying a desk would then be posted back to a unit, possibly a deployable unit, and who wants to deploy anyways?  Its dangerous!  There are too many desk jockeys in Kingston and Toronto doing "studies" and "trials" and looking into "human factors" for any real change to come without a fight.  In my mind, it is they who promulgate the "parade square" mentality by not allowing other ideas reference kit to come to the surface.

As you can tell, I don't like CTS, and I think they should be disbanded.  The money they waste could be better spent anywhere else in the CF.  I know this isn't the "lets bash CTS" thread, but its they who push this crap kit on us, and its that crap kit that the soldiers go out and spend their hard earned dollars on to replace with functioning kit that meets their requirements.  

As has been stated, all it will take is one good TIC for the reins to loosen.  In the meantime, send in those UCR's (cuz CTS doesn't get enough use out of their shredder) and push your CoC to look at the high speed stuff thats out there.  Good luck.

 

[PhilB]

MikeH,

I'm not sure who you are with (NSE maybe?) but at least for the BG we were told that certain items of non issue kit were good to go. i.e. boots - must be desert and look military, gloves - any really except fingerless gloves, chest rigs - they gave us a list of approved rigs which included the CP Gear MOFOCR, Arkitis rigs, Dropzone rigs, and the HSGI Warlord. We have not heard any different so, at least for us, most stuff is pretty much good for wear. I'm not sure whats up with your chain, is it just your particular chain that is saying this?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

In some cases the info that flows down the chain changes and morphs by the time it gets to the troops.

 

[RCR Grunt]

... A case of the old "broken telephone" game.  Where "watch your footing" can be easily distorted to "chocolate pudding."

 

[blacktriangle]

This may sound stupid, but forgive me...

If this stays firm ( I hope for deploying pers, it does not) can you just take the charge and wear the gear you need? I know I personally could not perform as well with some kit issued... e.g.  boots

 

[aesop081]

This may sound stupid, but forgive me...

If this stays firm ( I hope for deploying pers, it does not) can you just take the charge and wear the gear you need?

And then be charged again for the same thing....having been charged once already for the same infraction ? The snowball effect will kick into high gear there.

Nice advice

 

[WLSC]

For the boots, right now its something like if it is from the PX or the brits store, it's ok.  As long that it's tan

 

[blacktriangle]

And then be charged again for the same thing....having been charged once already for the same infraction ? The snowball effect will kick into high gear there.

Nice advice

Seen.

I guess I was just curious if the powers that be would actually pursue it repeatedly.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[medaid]

Seen.

I guess I was just curious if the powers that be would actually pursue it repeatedly.

Thanks for the correction.

Strange, I have heard this line of argument not less then 24hrs ago from another soldier...

 

[aesop081]

Seen.

I guess I was just curious if the powers that be would actually pursue it repeatedly.

Thanks for the correction.

Look at it this way...

You are a CO and say "no non-issued kit"

Cpl Bloggins showes up with non issued kit

You charge him with disobeying a direct order and he is fined $500

2 days later you see Cpl Bloggins again with unissued kit.....

What do you think is going to happen ?


I'm not saying that a "non-issued kit" policy is right.....just looking at it from a command perspective and the perspective of someone whos been in shyt for doing the same stuff after being charged for it.

 

[Donut]

MikeH,

I'm not sure who you are with (NSE maybe?) but at least for the BG we were told that certain items of non issue kit were good to go. i.e. boots - must be desert and look military, gloves - any really except fingerless gloves, chest rigs - they gave us a list of approved rigs which included the CP Gear MOFOCR, Arkitis rigs, Dropzone rigs, and the HSGI Warlord. We have not heard any different so, at least for us, most stuff is pretty much good for wear. I'm not sure whats up with your chain, is it just your particular chain that is saying this?

HSS Coy got the same direction (no non-issue kit) today.  The specific items mentioned were vests, eyewear, and boots.  Then we were told to bring it anyway, and squirrel it away for outside the wire or after the change of command midway through the deployment.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

change of command midway through the deployment.

could you elaborate on this?

 

[Neill McKay]

Also I could definately see it being something similar to loyalty with other jobs in the civie world, along with standards of uniform. For instance, if you work at Future Shop and in the winter & they 'issue' you a long sleeved red shirt with festive icons on it, they want you to wear it while you're at work... not another long sleeved red shirt that may be warmer or fits better.. or etc..

Your logic is reasonable, and it applies pretty well to offices, workshops, classrooms, warehouses, especially parade squares, and similar environments at CF bases in Canada.

The difference when one is deployed is that the finer points of uniformity often have to take a back seat to practicality.  It's not possible to test uniforms under deployed conditions until someone deploys with them, and now that people are doing just that they're finding problems.

Some rules that work on the parade square don't work in the field.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The difference when one is deployed is that the finer points of uniformity often have to take a back seat to practicality. 

You best put on a muzzle cause your talking crazy and there may be a black helicopter come by to pick you up in the near future if you continue to try and make sense.

 

[Armymedic]

Not to add fuel to the fire....

Ok I am.  >

How come when I look at the cbt camera photos of the Vandoo BG, and in almost 99% of the pictures they are wearing the issued vest and using only issued gear.  It is obviously good enough for that honourable regiment. Why is it not good enough for the squareheads in our army?

 

[blacktriangle]

Not to add fuel to the fire....

Ok I am.  >

How come when I look at the cbt camera photos of the Vandoo BG, and in almost 99% of the pictures they are wearing the issued vest and using only issued gear.  It is obviously good enough for that honourable regiment. Why is it not good enough for the squareheads in our army?

Maybe...

They put the vest on only for photos...  ;D

 

[Donut]

could you elaborate on this?

PM on it's way.

 

[Blakey]

Not to add fuel to the fire....

Ok I am.  >

How come when I look at the cbt camera photos of the Vandoo BG, and in almost 99% of the pictures they are wearing the issued vest and using only issued gear.  It is obviously good enough for that honourable regiment. Why is it not good enough for the squareheads in our army?

The images get vetted in Ottawa prior to being released.

EDIT: Well, most of TF 1-08 has been issued the new rucksack (Bergen) from the folks a CTS, sure wish I would have had this twomonths ago (while in the field) so that I could have gotten comfy with it.  :......

 

[George Wallace]

PhotoShop?

 

[Blakey]

PhotoShop?

No, vetted for OPSEC and appropriateness.

EDIT: Actually, PS is used in some aspects of post production of the images.

Just think (or have a gander at the site, Cbt Camera), how many images have actually been posted that shows Canadian Soldiers in a TIC? and by that I mean putting rounds down range while engaged with the enemy.