"The stuff the army issues is useless" and "no non-issue kit over seas!"

[aesop081]

I do remember the discussion of static electricity being passed on in a safety digest issue with regards to wearing the sweatshirt as an outer garment.

I was still in the engineers when this came out but the direction was in reference to wearing both the fleece and gortex at the same time. You could wear either or but not both when doing explosives work.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

That sounds right.. I knew it had something to do with the fleece though.. being a tanker and handling ammo it came in to play...

 

[armyvern]

Ecco should chime in on the DLR/CTS side of this.. I think he has contacts and is very well versed on the avoidance of "misinformation".

I do remember the discussion of static electricity being passed on in a safety digest issue with regards to wearing the sweatshirt as an outer garment.

The PIP is the CTS/DLR guidance. That's not the regulations though -- CTS/DLR doesn't make them.

There is something in writing around here ... I'm just not sure if it's LF/Area/local as I said before. When I manage to run accross it again -- I'll post it up.

 

[TN2IC]

That sounds right.. I knew it had something to do with the fleece though.. being a tanker and handling ammo it came in to play...

Try checking the refuellers on the airfield. I nearly pass out the first time I seen it. What a light show!

And they say smoking is not okay when fueling, gee, I've been missing something then.  ;D

 

[Disenchantedsailor]

I think, and I could be wrong here -- it's been a few years, the original PIP stated that it was "not intended to be worn as an outer garment in garrison."

Oldheimers (sometimes forgetting the smaller details of past directives) ... good thing I'm on course in Halifax next week; I need beers. 

I can't get access to the DIN right now (I'm on lve and have no intention of going to work before my course starts next week) but there was a canforgen in 02 I think it was, maybe 99/02 perhaps, that stated the fleece was auth for use as outerwear. I could be wrong, if you ask the wife it happens more often than not.

 

[BernDawg]

Try checking the refuellers on the airfield. I nearly pass out the first time I seen it. What a light show!

And they say smoking is not okay when fueling, gee, I've been missing something then.  ;D

Fleece ist verboten on all the airfields I've been on.

 

[geo]

Heh... I remember showing up at Greenwood to catch a service flight to Ottawa.....right off my Sr NCOs Part something or other in Aldershot..... wearing ankle boots that were fully shod....

All of a sudden I<m walking across the tarmack with my boots in my hands and only my trusty grey wool socks as footwear

NOW THAT WAS VERBOTEN!

 

[BinRat55]

LOL!! Damn clickers!! Try it with just the TOPS of your socks on... don't ask...

 

[BernDawg]

Yup.  I've seen many a clicker go into the trash can in various AMU's during my time.  Mine bit the dust when we had a CoC parade on the apron in Cold Lake.  (I'm lucky enough to have 2 pairs of boots so I still have a wicked set of full clickers at home)

 

[Ecco]

Ecco should chime in on the DLR/CTS side of this.. I think he has contacts and is very well versed on the avoidance of "misinformation".

This is only part of the answer, as the CTS answer if you will. What, specifically, if anything has the Land Staff RSM said? Outer garment or not?

About fleece as an outer garment:

I checked the status of ICE/IECS on the Capability Investment Database today.  It has recently passed FOC (Final Operating Capability) stage.  In other words, the project has completed its deliveries and the implementation, and the Chief of Land Forces, as the Sponsor, has signed a document that says that this capability is now completely integrated into service.  The Project Implementation Plan will stay as a useful resource, but is not anymore the document that should dictate how the item is used.  It's the Land Forces, through its network of RSM, etc...  that are now the resource.  As far as I know, there is no formal direction from the LF RSM about how this item should be used.  In my opinion, this is the best situation:  Let the decision makers, at any levels, adapt the standards according to the situation/their experience. 

I know the Air Force have static electricity concerns that are typically ignored by Land people.  If they say no the fleece as outer garment, don't wear it near their birds.  If your CSM says no, then you should listen to him, etc...

OldSolduer:  Sorry to correct: The Land Staff Sergeant Major is currently a MWO whose job it is to try to organize the officer-heavy bunch of people that work at the NDHQ Land Staff.  I believe you were referring to the Army Sergeant Major, who is the highest ranked CWO of the Land Forces, and the senior soldier amongst us all.

 

[armyvern]

Just to add,

And, if you don't want to listen to your CSM/RSM as the case may be ...

Please please please be the same rank as me (or higher) and at the same location as me ... I could do with my name falling off of duty lists for a change instead of falling into being placed on them!! 

 

[2 Cdo]

Just to add,

And, if you don't want to listen to your CSM/RSM as the case may be ...

Please please please be the same rank as me (or higher) and at the same location as me ... I could do with my name falling off of duty lists for a change instead of falling into being placed on them!! 

Some sage bit of advice for some of our "barrack room lawyers" who think they run the army and not Sergeant Majors!

 

[OldSolduer]

Thank you Vern and 2CDO.
Now, to all those who wish to debate this, please go on.

 

[MG34]

Oddly enough I don't remember any duty lists other than a sentry/OP shift , patrol schedule list on my last 2 trips to A'stan.
  You have to leave the garrision mentality at home where it belongs. Garritroopers/ KAFites/Fobbits and their rantings should be ignored as the nuisance they are, at least you can swat the sandflies and not face a jail sentence.
  At home you work to solve the problem, in the theatre you take corrective action as required to allow you to do the job.

 

[OldSolduer]

MG 34 I would have to agree with you, BUT, there are powers higher than you and I still regard the Current Operating Environment as a super Cyprus tour. I'm surpirsed we don't have to starch things and spit shined things and present arms to NATO vehicles...I'm joking.

 

[Armymedic]

You have to leave the garrision mentality at home where it belongs.

I agree with your statement and the concept. But We all have to remember we are only in A'stan (or elsewhere) for 6-8 months every 2-4 years. The rest of the time we are at home "in garrison" even when we are in the field.

Instead of leaving the one mentality behind, there should be an instutional shift to merge it all into one focused mindset.

 

[MG34]

Roger that, but I'll take the small victories for now and hope to win the war on that front. It takes time to make an institutional change, the Bns get it for the most part, it is the higher HQ (Bde and up)that is not .

 

[geo]

Gotta remember that we were a UN police force for some 30 years... we ended up behaving like what we were asked to become... takes a bit of time to break old (bad) habbits.

 

[Armymedic]

In (a small) defense of the "old" habits, not all of them are bad. As there is definately a place and time for the "parade square" mentality. For instance, my personal opinion is all Jr NCO courses up to and including PLQ should emphasis "sameness" as a standard, if to, for no other reason as to reenforce "attention to detail" that is so critical at higher ranks.

 

[MG34]

I agree as long as the Parade Square is not brought to the "field of battle".