The US Presidency 2019

[Remius]

  One thing I do know, for someone as famous as he was, there were almost ZERO stain of racism, in fact quite the opposite, until he became the leader of a national party.

Um..not quite.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-racist-meme/

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Um..not quite.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/donald-trump-racist-meme/

That's it??  I had ONE PERSON at my work put in more stuff on me in the last 7 years, in his desire to get me fired, then is in that page. 

 

[Remius]

That's it??  I had ONE PERSON at my work put in more stuff on me in the last 7 years, in his desire to get me fired, then is in that page.

No I provided more above.  Make your own call I could care less. What someone has accused you of is immaterial to this conversation or to what you asked for from Journeyman.

This SNOPES link was in reference to your comment: "One thing I do know, for someone as famous as he was, there were almost ZERO stain of racism, in fact quite the opposite, until he became the leader of a national party."

Which is false as I have provided you with enough sources to show that.

If you want to refute this please provide your evidence and sources.  You haven't but you seem good at asking others to do so.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I didn't make the accusations.....and just asked for proof.  You gave some links and I read them.....like I said, pretty slim pickin's to hang somebody on, but carry on....

 

[QV]

If you want to refute this please provide your evidence and sources.  You haven't but you seem good at asking others to do so.

You have to prove guilt, not innocence.  An accusation does not mean it happened. 

 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

As to lies, he's the only recent politician to be keeping his campaign promises.

As I said earlier, Trump's lies haven't killed thousands of allied soldiers and civilians world wide, like Bush, Clinton and Obama.

Obama lied constantly and still does.

"Sometimes the blatantly obvious is....well, blatantly obvious." - JM

 

[Journeyman]

Wow.....slim pickin's.  I meant real evidence...

Well, for full disclosure, that was just a quick sample off of the top of my head;  I had other things to do so I didn't do even the basic research for you or anyone else -- as noted, a direction pointer for anyone who cared to read for themselves. 

At the end of the day, anyone who expects to be spoon-fed their 'facts' deserves whatever they end up swallowing ... whether it comes from a Clinton or a Trump.

 

[observor 69]

Well, for full disclosure, that was just a quick sample off of the top of my head;  I had other things to do so I didn't do even the basic research for you or anyone else -- as noted, a direction pointer for anyone who cared to read for themselves. 

At the end of the day, anyone who expects to be spoon-fed their 'facts' deserves whatever they end up swallowing ... whether it comes from a Clinton or a Trump.

Or an autocrat ! 

 

[Brad Sallows]

>Trump's Presidency

There are two parts composing "Trump's Presidency" that must be evaluated independently: what Trump says, and what the executive branch does.  Some voters care more about the former, and some care more about the latter.  The former is too scattershot, self-contradictory (over time), and riddled with ignorance and falsehood for any piece of it to be taken at face value; to be taken as a representation of whatever might be Trump's true beliefs rather than his assessment of what he thinks the people being directly addressed want to hear; or whatever might serve to self-promote at that particular instant in time.

Several Bill Clinton supporters admitted after his presidency was concluded that they shelved their ethical concerns at the time because political exigencies superceded ethics.  I suppose it's baked into human nature.

Trump has simply dialed up to 11 everything that was already playing, and fewer conservatives are willing to self-immolate and yield to Democrats only to watch them play the ends-justify-means game as usual - rules for thee, but not for me.

 

[Furniture]

No I provided more above.  Make your own call I could care less. What someone has accused you of is immaterial to this conversation or to what you asked for from Journeyman.

This SNOPES link was in reference to your comment: "One thing I do know, for someone as famous as he was, there were almost ZERO stain of racism, in fact quite the opposite, until he became the leader of a national party."

Which is false as I have provided you with enough sources to show that.

If you want to refute this please provide your evidence and sources.  You haven't but you seem good at asking others to do so.

You chose to emphasise the part of his quote that makes your point strongest while ignoring the word that comes directly before.

After decades of being in the public eye, three accusations is pretty weak evidence of a pattern of racism. If the accusation was leveled at almost anyone else most people would agree that three accusations is weak, but add the Trump effect and now it's proof he was always the devil.

I have no doubt he's a cheat, liar, and all around horrible person, but lets be clear he wasn't the devil incarnate until he was running against the media picked winner.

 

[Furniture]

Well, for full disclosure, that was just a quick sample off of the top of my head;  I had other things to do so I didn't do even the basic research for you or anyone else -- as noted, a direction pointer for anyone who cared to read for themselves. 

At the end of the day, anyone who expects to be spoon-fed their 'facts' deserves whatever they end up swallowing ... whether it comes from a Clinton or a Trump.

If this was a pro-Trump thread and someone posted that argument as proof Trump is good you would rightly call them out for not supporting their claim.

You can't be the "prove it" guy and not prove your own allegations.

 

[Jarnhamar]

[quote author=Brad Sallows]fewer conservatives are willing to self-immolate and yield to Democrats only to watch them play the ends-justify-means game as usual - rules for thee, but not for me.
[/quote]

Great observation.

[quote author=Furniture] but lets be clear he wasn't the devil incarnate until he was running against the media picked winner.
[/quote]

Another great observation. I think this is the core of the whole Trump is racist mantra.

My young children told me Trump is racist. Found that amusing considering I've never mentioned his name, or any politics, in my house. I asked what he said that was racist and they didn't know. "He just is".  It's funny (to me) but the thing is a lot of Americans (and Canadians) appear to be in the same boat. There's videos of protests and interviews and such of people asking anti-Trump protesters what Trump said that's racist, and they can't articulate an answer except for "He just is".

Honestly maybe he actually is racist. I wouldn't put it past him. But when you look at the accusations of racism that surfaced before, as Furniture points out, he ran against the media picked winner, there isn't exactly an abundance of cut and dry examples.

From the start the media has accused him of racism, without any real proof or examples, and people have not only lapped it up but regurgitated it. From American adults to Canadian children.

Trump is racist because Harper is racist and Scheer is racist and the next conservative and republican candidates are racist too- whoever they may be.

 

[mariomike]

I had other things to do so I didn't do even the basic research for you or anyone else -- as noted, a direction pointer for anyone who cared to read for themselves. 

Considering the Democrats got 60,727,598 votes, and the Republicans got 50,983,895 votes ( 1 ), in the election two months ago, I imagine strategists from both parties are studying the demographics ( 2 ), and what they may indicate for the next election,

Black: 9% voted Republican

Jewish: 17% voted Republican

Asian: 23% voted Republican

Hispanic: 29% voted Republican

Women: 40% voted Republican

Source:

( 1 ) Cook Political Report
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WxDaxD5az6kdOjJncmGph37z0BPNhV1fNAH_g7IkpC0/htmlview?usp=sharing&sle=true

( 2 ) Pew Research Center
http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2018/11/08/the-2018-midterm-vote-divisions-by-race-gender-education/

 

[Cloud Cover]

Or an autocrat ! 

Or a Russian troll bot.

 

[Journeyman]

.....prove your own allegations.

Really? Why?  op:

I mean, I can certainly understand why Trump supporters need two standards of 'discussion,'  where only one side is expected to read widely, assess, and justify, yet something like this  goes unanswered without an eyebrow raised.

Trump could single handedly create world peace while finishing a cure for cancer and his detractors would still condemn him.  :boring:

And after all the times, in just the last couple of years even, that CNN has been caught lying and defining fake news, that people still use them as a valid source to qualify their opinion.

In the interest of fairness, I simply ask for a shortlist of his accomplishments.

:crickets:

However, it's a rhetorical point.  It comes down to "if you believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." 

My failed 2019 resolution was to avoid these threads;  I'll try again. 

 

[Remius]

Really? Why?  op:

I mean, I can certainly understand why Trump supporters need two standards of 'discussion,'  where only one side is expected to read widely, assess, and justify, yet something like this  goes unanswered without an eyebrow raised. :crickets:

However, it's a rhetorical point.  It comes down to "if you believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." 

My failed 2019 resolution was to avoid these threads;  I'll try again. 

Indeed and well said.

I posted a wiki page on a list of racist things and comments that Donald Trump is reported to have said and done over the years. No one here refuted any of it.  Just dismissed it.

I posted a SNOPES article debunking the claim that Trump was never accused of saying anything racist until he became a candidate for president.  Demonstrably false.  Now the statement was "almost zero".  Non quantitative or at least very vague.  What is almost zero?  Once, twice?  three times?  If someone says that guy says racist things...how many times does it take to qualify? Again, dismissed outright and not provided with any rebuttal other than personal opinion. 

Do I think the POTUS is a racist?  No I actually do not and I've shown here at least one thing that leads me to believe he isn't.  I can name a few others as well but that is beyond the point.  I do believe he has said racist things.  There is enough to go on for that.  I think he says racist things because he knows racists will vote for him .  In fact he says various things tailored to the crowd he's trying to convince for whatever support he will get.  He's an opportunist.

As mentioned, he lies, says terrible things etc.  It's a means to an end.

One thing though is that he is doing his best to keep his word on his promises.  I will give him full credit for that.  Like the shutdown being on him.  He said he would, proudly.  And he is wearing it whether he still wants to or not.   

 

[Infanteer]

Great article at the BBC about the current President.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46895634

This bit pretty much sums the to-and-fro of this thread up.

Tax reform. Two Supreme Court nominees safely installed on the bench. The travel ban. The bonfire of federal regulations. Criminal justice reform. Legislative action aimed at ameliorating the opioid crisis. Nato members ponying up more cash. Annual wage growth is at a nine-year high. 2018 was the best year for job creation since 2015. Many of his campaign pledges, such as the renegotiation of Nafta and the relocation of the US embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem, have been kept. Promise made, promise kept is one of his boasts that regularly rings true.

Often, though, he blunts the impact of authentic good news with inflated claims. US Steel is not opening up six new plants. He is not the author of the biggest tax cut in American history. Besides, the trade war has penalised US manufacturers and farmers, and in 2018 the stock market suffered its worst year since the 2008 financial meltdown.
.....
Nor have we ever witnessed a US leader who has so flagrantly flouted the normal rules of presidential behaviour. The playground nicknames. The Twitter tirades. The ugly slurs - "horseface" for Stormy Daniels, a former porn star with whom he was once apparently intimate. In response to indictments in the Mueller probe, he has sometimes sounded more like the boss of a crime family. "A rat" is how he described his former lawyer and fixer Michael Cohen, deploying the lingua franca of the Mafioso.

 

[mariomike]

Great article at the BBC about the current President.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46895634

Interesting article.

Last year, a poll of nearly 200 political science scholars, which has routinely placed Republicans higher than Democrats, ranked him 44th out of the 44 men who have occupied the post (for those wondering why Trump is the 45th president, Grover Cleveland served twice).

Though the president has likened himself to Abraham Lincoln, who posterity has deemed to be greatest of all presidents, this survey judged him to be the worst of the worst. Even the conservative scholars, who identified themselves as Republicans, placed him 40th.

 

[Cloud Cover]

Well, all of the others are past presidents. He isn’t finished his work yet.

 

[QV]

I'll take ignorant+effective over polite+ineffective every day.