Topo

[aesop081]

Now your being fecisious.....  :

Oh good...you understood what i was going for  ;D

Nav is is a core skill why teach a core skill to mediocure makes no sense. Thats like teaching half a weapons drill thinking well thats good enough isn't it.....

Nav is a core skill.....but to what level ? Remember, this is basic training. Do we need everyone to be able to find a stick in the woods or is being able to locate one's self the core skill ?

 

[HItorMiss]

Cdn

Come on think about even if I know where I am to withing 100m I'm still not where I need to be AND I contest as I have seen be lost using a 6 figure ref. 100m box search or 10m box search and what would be the extra effort to teach two more figures?

 

[aesop081]

what would be the extra effort to teach two more figures?

I dont think it would be all that much.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

BM,

I'm guessing the problem wouldn't be teaching it...it would be the ability of BMQ troops to actually GET within a 10m square on their basic nav...errr...topo...practical check. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

There was a time when the use of 8-fig GRs wasn't taught at all, except for trades and tasks the specifically required additional precision.  This was, quite realistically, based on the assessment that the use of 8-fig GRs was inside the likely errors of using the current map protractor, the precision of the scale on the Silva compass and the thickness of a pencil lead. That was also assuming all involved were working with the same care and level of precision to start with. And those "trades and tasks that specifically required additional precision," they were also given the tools to achieve it.

 

[HItorMiss]

EITS

You taught there do you really see it being that much more effort honestly?

 

[aesop081]

Theres alot of things we could teach on Basic.........but it would then be 28 weeks long.

In the time alloted, there is sufficient time to get candidates that may have never done this before, down to 100m accuracy and be comfortable with that skill.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

EITS

You taught there do you really see it being that much more effort honestly?

From the teaching perspective, certainly not. 

But...I'd suspect you'd see issues with the candidates being able to find out where they are/navigate to Point X in 8 fig.  I'd guess you'd see alot of "did not meet the standard" PC results.

But...thats just my  :2c: and its worth exactly that I figure.  8)


*editted to add

But, giving them the basic skills "seems" to be working.  I did my BSERE with a few of the DE AES Ops.  We worked in grids, in lat/long, using compass, and GPS.  They did fine on all the Nav aspects of the course.  All they had in terms of CF trg at the time was BMQ and they were able to step up, using SARDOTS, 10 Fig grids, triangulation etc.  On our BAQC Nav portion, and now the IAQC (flying phase), they did and are getting thru all the nav stuff, including MGRS, Lat/Long, GEOREF, so it appears the basic skill sets taught are sinking in.  Atleast with the guys I am working with currently. 

 

[aesop081]

5 more posts beofre this goes back to "seperate BMQ for each element".......

 

[SupersonicMax]

Might as well teach all the recruits how to send a 9-line to a fighter.  After all, anybody may eventually have to do emergency CAS.

The point of Basic Training is to teach the basics of military life.  Not to make you proficient in anything.

 

[kratz]

BM,

So average sailor comes ashore. No map. No reference.
Said 8 point training value is?

The Op asked about topo training WRT a BMQ course.
Not everyone requires the same skills.

CDN Av: post # 1  :nod:

 

[armychick2009]

Chappy,
I'm pretty much "math retarded" as quoted by my grade 3 teacher and decided to live up to that high expectation throughout the years. I really don't like math a whole lot and probably never will. I can however, do compass work... so, there's hope for you.

Someone else mentioned SAR (Search and Rescue) -- maybe contact someone in your area if you want to get familiar with compass work beforehand (and be weary if they rely on GPS solely, trust me... GPS doesn't always work for you when you're actually in a bush with overhead tree cover or cloud cover but a compass will!)  Just realise when you get to St. Jean, they will teach you their way so you may need to dump habits that someone else teaches you beforehand.

You can buy a compass for about $70 (you can get cheaper ones but I wanted one with a few extra bells and whistles for more accurate navigation) and a map of your local area with the proper grid lines (degrees) to practise with -- there are online tutorials for it. Find a local landmark, set your co-ordinates and start walking!

 

[chappyk]

Thanks ArmyChick2009, as usual I am putting the cart before the horse, but a bit of practice beforehand might definitely be a good idea.  I think truthfully I am just afraid of messing up on the courses.  Mind you I have told myself that if I have to, I will stay longer than the 13 weeks being recoursed until I do pass.  I am not walking out of CFLRS without graduating.

 

[DonaldMcL]

Read the right end of the needle and you'll be fine. DO NOT, i repeat DO NOT write on your maps in red pen/marker. I still remember the look on my sergeants face when he asked me where we were and pulled out my map with put the red light on it. "Well aren't you just f%$ing brilliant" I believe were his exact words. Another quick tip... aim to be either left or right of target just a little. You can't walk in the woods in a straight line, and it you try and stop where you think your target should be and it's not... which way do you go? If you purposely meant to shoot it to the right, once you've reached your distance, you can bank on it being just to the left of you.

You'll learn how to properly use a compass in basic, making all the proper adjustments for variation and such.
Have fun and don't stress. I was leading a 2.3km leg at night, in which my compass wouldn't illuminate and was off in a wrong direction by 30 degrees or so. I made it through =D

 

[MasterInstructor]

At CFLRS we did learn 8 figure grid system, we used 6 figure for a single class, rest of the BMQ was all in 8 figure...

 

[57Chevy]

Here's a good source of information for beginners......and for a refresher for some.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/5043576/Royal-Canadian-Army-Cadet-Navigation


(A good rule of thumb to remember for grid references is: " in the house up the stairs")

 

[secup]

Hi there,

Just so you know, like everything else in BMQ, you will have so much time to practice and so much exams retake and the exams is like 10 questions or so. Out of the 50 candidates that were with me, no one failed. and while i was in PAT for a bit , i didnt see anyone being recourse for failing Topo (that is 0 our of approx 2000 candidates), I saw some being for failed first aid classes tho ...

Nobody's gonna scream at you if you ask questions or so. Do not be afraid to ask questions. The only thing our instructors told us was "This test is quite easy, you should be only worried when you do topo in your warrant classes." which is quite a few years after BMQ.

Hope that helped.