Training in Calling for Fire Support
- Thread starter Haligonian
- Start date
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
Again just for info I am posting the current edition version of a Fire Mission.
SOP 704.07—FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
1. Purpose. Used to transmit initial fire for effect request for fire and/or orders to fire.
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
A
1
2
3
4
5
Map details: (Note 1)
Map/chart series
Map/chart suffix no
Map/chart sheet no (Note 2)
Map/chart edition No (Note 2)
Geodetic datum (Note 2)
B Target no
C Number of fire units to fire for effect
D
1
2
3
Target location:
UTM easting (in metres)
UTM northing (in metres)
Altitude (in metres)
E Target grid zone
F
1
Target description:
Target type (Note 3)
SOP 704-13
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
2
3
Target subtype (Note 3)
Degree of protection (Note 4)
G Target strength
H
1
2
3
Target size:
Length or radius (in metres)
Width (in metres)
Attitude—azimuth of the longest axis (in mils)
I Report value accuracy of the target location (in
metres)
J Trajectory type from: HIGH—high angle; LOW—
low angle
K
1
2
3
Munitions in effect: (Note 5)
Number of volleys/rockets
Fire for effect projectile (Note 6)
Fire for effect fuze (Note 6)
L Effects required (as %)
M
1
2
Method of control:
Method (Note 7)
Time on target or time to fire
N
1
2
Firing interval:
Interval (in seconds)
Duration (in minutes)
O End of mission (Note 8)
Figure 61: Fire Mission Call for Fire (NATO)
NOTES:
1. Use of this ser is optional.
2. Repeat as nec.
3. Selected from: omitted list is long
4. Selected from: omitted list is long
5. The Munitions in Effect ser (set) may be repeated as a group up to two times, initial plus
one. The first iteration shall be the first selected shell/fuze combination, the second iteration
shall be the second selected shell/fuze combination. However, special considerations state
that currently only one iteration shall be specified.
6. Selected from: omitted list is long
7. Selected from: omitted list is long
8. Selected from: omitted list is long
9. Record as Target
Also found the CDN one after the NATO one.
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (CAN)
Warning order Order is sent on the supported arm net: G11 THIS IS 13A.
FIRE MISSION OVER.
Target location The supported arm will point out the target to be engaged
by one of the following methods:
1 Grid reference, e.g., GRID 57822 67253 (with LAV, use 10
figs)
2 If a reference point is available (i.e., one either known to
both the supported arm and the observer, or visible and
recognizable to both), it may be used to point out the
target, e.g.:
a. REFERENCE RED BARN, SOUTHEAST ALONG TRACK
200 METRES, 2 BMPS IN HULL DOWN POSITION; or
b. REFERENCE TARGET AP1234, DIRECTION 0500, R200
A400, INFANTRY PLATOON WITH ATGM DUG IN WITH
OVERHEAD COVER.
3 If no convenient reference point is available, the supported
arm may request that a group of rounds or a smoke round
be fired to provide a reference point and then indicate the
target using the group of rounds or smoke, e.g.:
a. MARK BY SMOKE, REFERENCE POINT IN SQUARE
4927; or
b. REFERENCE SMOKE, NORTHWEST 300M, DEAD
TREE.
4 A direction and distance may be given if the supported
arm’s call sign location is known, e.g., DIRECTION 4800,
DISTANCE 1500, 3 x T72S ADVANCING SOUTH.
5 The supported arm may fire smoke or tracer and give the
location of the target in relation to such fire.
Direction Grid bearing in mils (unless stated otherwise).
Description of
target
As detailed as possible.
Type of fire
required
This part of the call for fire will tell the observer what is to
be done to the target, including any requirement for special
ammunition, e.g., NEUTRALIZE WITH SMOKE,
NEUTRALIZE or DESTROY.
Time/duration
of fire for effect
This is the time at which the supported arm wishes FFE to
begin and the duration of such fire, e.g., (NEUTRALIZE)
AS SOON AS POSSIBLE FOR FIVE MINUTES, or
(NEUTRALIZE WITH SMOKE) FOR THREE MINUTES AT
H PLUS 2.
SOP 704.07—FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
1. Purpose. Used to transmit initial fire for effect request for fire and/or orders to fire.
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
A
1
2
3
4
5
Map details: (Note 1)
Map/chart series
Map/chart suffix no
Map/chart sheet no (Note 2)
Map/chart edition No (Note 2)
Geodetic datum (Note 2)
B Target no
C Number of fire units to fire for effect
D
1
2
3
Target location:
UTM easting (in metres)
UTM northing (in metres)
Altitude (in metres)
E Target grid zone
F
1
Target description:
Target type (Note 3)
SOP 704-13
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (NATO)
2
3
Target subtype (Note 3)
Degree of protection (Note 4)
G Target strength
H
1
2
3
Target size:
Length or radius (in metres)
Width (in metres)
Attitude—azimuth of the longest axis (in mils)
I Report value accuracy of the target location (in
metres)
J Trajectory type from: HIGH—high angle; LOW—
low angle
K
1
2
3
Munitions in effect: (Note 5)
Number of volleys/rockets
Fire for effect projectile (Note 6)
Fire for effect fuze (Note 6)
L Effects required (as %)
M
1
2
Method of control:
Method (Note 7)
Time on target or time to fire
N
1
2
Firing interval:
Interval (in seconds)
Duration (in minutes)
O End of mission (Note 8)
Figure 61: Fire Mission Call for Fire (NATO)
NOTES:
1. Use of this ser is optional.
2. Repeat as nec.
3. Selected from: omitted list is long
4. Selected from: omitted list is long
5. The Munitions in Effect ser (set) may be repeated as a group up to two times, initial plus
one. The first iteration shall be the first selected shell/fuze combination, the second iteration
shall be the second selected shell/fuze combination. However, special considerations state
that currently only one iteration shall be specified.
6. Selected from: omitted list is long
7. Selected from: omitted list is long
8. Selected from: omitted list is long
9. Record as Target
Also found the CDN one after the NATO one.
FIRE MISSION CALL FOR FIRE (FM.CFF) (CAN)
Warning order Order is sent on the supported arm net: G11 THIS IS 13A.
FIRE MISSION OVER.
Target location The supported arm will point out the target to be engaged
by one of the following methods:
1 Grid reference, e.g., GRID 57822 67253 (with LAV, use 10
figs)
2 If a reference point is available (i.e., one either known to
both the supported arm and the observer, or visible and
recognizable to both), it may be used to point out the
target, e.g.:
a. REFERENCE RED BARN, SOUTHEAST ALONG TRACK
200 METRES, 2 BMPS IN HULL DOWN POSITION; or
b. REFERENCE TARGET AP1234, DIRECTION 0500, R200
A400, INFANTRY PLATOON WITH ATGM DUG IN WITH
OVERHEAD COVER.
3 If no convenient reference point is available, the supported
arm may request that a group of rounds or a smoke round
be fired to provide a reference point and then indicate the
target using the group of rounds or smoke, e.g.:
a. MARK BY SMOKE, REFERENCE POINT IN SQUARE
4927; or
b. REFERENCE SMOKE, NORTHWEST 300M, DEAD
TREE.
4 A direction and distance may be given if the supported
arm’s call sign location is known, e.g., DIRECTION 4800,
DISTANCE 1500, 3 x T72S ADVANCING SOUTH.
5 The supported arm may fire smoke or tracer and give the
location of the target in relation to such fire.
Direction Grid bearing in mils (unless stated otherwise).
Description of
target
As detailed as possible.
Type of fire
required
This part of the call for fire will tell the observer what is to
be done to the target, including any requirement for special
ammunition, e.g., NEUTRALIZE WITH SMOKE,
NEUTRALIZE or DESTROY.
Time/duration
of fire for effect
This is the time at which the supported arm wishes FFE to
begin and the duration of such fire, e.g., (NEUTRALIZE)
AS SOON AS POSSIBLE FOR FIVE MINUTES, or
(NEUTRALIZE WITH SMOKE) FOR THREE MINUTES AT
H PLUS 2.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
b00161400 said:
There is the old tried and true.....Classroom. Dry Trg in a classroom to 'drill' the format into the minds of the troops. You can use a blackboard/greenboard, a Flipchart, a whiteboard, or whatever to draw a tgt and then mark "X's" for Adjustments. The only limits on how to train iare the limits you place on your own imagination.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
NFLD Sapper said:
FM's are American Field Manuals.
- Reaction score
- 79
- Points
- 680
George Wallace said:
I was using FM as in Fire Mission, will edit to reflect this.
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 160
b00
To go along with what George said, another thing to try take something, anything really and put it in the center of the classroom, now grab 4 or 5 styrofoam cups and label them 1-5. Do your AACFF and have the first rd come in and miss the tgt, mark it with cup, now with your binos (forgot to mention that you needed those) begin your adjustments, you'll be able to track your adjustments after, see where maybe you went wrong. You can keep doing this till your blue in the face, just keep changing the OT (Observer to tgt, what you need to make the WORM Rule work) and how the rds land on the ground.
In my experience its not getting the AACFF sequence out that guys have trouble with, its what to do(correctly) with that rounds once they start landing.
To go along with what George said, another thing to try take something, anything really and put it in the center of the classroom, now grab 4 or 5 styrofoam cups and label them 1-5. Do your AACFF and have the first rd come in and miss the tgt, mark it with cup, now with your binos (forgot to mention that you needed those) begin your adjustments, you'll be able to track your adjustments after, see where maybe you went wrong. You can keep doing this till your blue in the face, just keep changing the OT (Observer to tgt, what you need to make the WORM Rule work) and how the rds land on the ground.
In my experience its not getting the AACFF sequence out that guys have trouble with, its what to do(correctly) with that rounds once they start landing.
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
NFLD Sapper said:
- Reaction score
- 5
- Points
- 430
George, the distance and direction referred to are in case the observer is using Polar Coordinates to direct the fire mission. That is why it refers to the supported arm call sign's location being known [i.e., by the firing unit].
- Reaction score
- 0
- Points
- 110
NFLD Sapper,
Okay, rest assured that while what you quoted in USOPs is accurate it is for calls for fire from HQ's or trained observers, not SACFF so it is not what is asked of or taught to a line soldier. The definitive references for firing Artillery are the Artillery Pubs, namely B-GL-371-002 and B-GL-371-004. The reason USOPs are so named is because they are UNIT SOPs. Yes they are NATO compliant, however that is why they include so much extra info, because for example the Cdns and the Dutch may not be on the same mapsheet. I hope to God the Pte Bloggins is using the same map as his Bn HQ (in which will reside an FSCC who will also be on the same map or at the every least be able to lean over to the duty O's to convert.
In the end what I gave as a SACFF in my initial post is correct, what you cite is correct but never used, and what rampage800 listed is what a trained FOO would send.
B00,
The only one who really answered the initial question was Michael O'Leary who gave some good advice on areas to practice (George'e classroom point is also good advice). Other than that make friends with a Gunner / Advanced Morterman and have them book some extra time in the IFT (Indirect Fire Trainer).
Okay, rest assured that while what you quoted in USOPs is accurate it is for calls for fire from HQ's or trained observers, not SACFF so it is not what is asked of or taught to a line soldier. The definitive references for firing Artillery are the Artillery Pubs, namely B-GL-371-002 and B-GL-371-004. The reason USOPs are so named is because they are UNIT SOPs. Yes they are NATO compliant, however that is why they include so much extra info, because for example the Cdns and the Dutch may not be on the same mapsheet. I hope to God the Pte Bloggins is using the same map as his Bn HQ (in which will reside an FSCC who will also be on the same map or at the every least be able to lean over to the duty O's to convert.
In the end what I gave as a SACFF in my initial post is correct, what you cite is correct but never used, and what rampage800 listed is what a trained FOO would send.
B00,
The only one who really answered the initial question was Michael O'Leary who gave some good advice on areas to practice (George'e classroom point is also good advice). Other than that make friends with a Gunner / Advanced Morterman and have them book some extra time in the IFT (Indirect Fire Trainer).
- Reaction score
- 25
- Points
- 430
Thanks Michael
My mind is spinning. I doubt a computer geek or a Gamer could follow this. What ever happened to KISS?
My mind is spinning. I doubt a computer geek or a Gamer could follow this. What ever happened to KISS?
daftandbarmy
Army.ca Dinosaur
- Reaction score
- 28,563
- Points
- 1,160
We used to use the good old 'Puff Table': A model of a piece of ground made up using hessian with 'willing helpers' underneath with a handy dandy container of foot powder - a.k.a. 'Foo foo powder'. This can be set up anywhere. I have also seen more robust puff tables set up, more or less permanently, in a variety of training establishments around the world.
Its use is described here by an OC in 42 Cdo during shipboard training on their way down to the Falklands to beat up the Argies in 1982:
THE OTHER MILITARY SKILL I WOULD HIGHLIGHT AS
RECEIVING PARTICULAR ATTENTION WAS THAT OF CALLING FOR
AND CONTROLING NAVAL, ARTILLERY, TANK AND MORTAR FIRE
SUPPORT. EVERY MAN IN MY COY WAS CAPABLE BY THE TIME
WE LANDED, OF CALLING FOR AND ADJUSTING FIRE SP, AND
HAD PRACTICED THIS ON WHAT WE CALL A "PUFF RANGE"; IN
THIS CASE A DETAILED CLOTH MODEL OF THE APPROACHES TO
PORT STANLEY BUILT IN THE EMPTY SWIMMING POOL UNDER THE
LANDING SPOT. I GOT A GREAT KICK PRIOR TO THE ACTUAL
BATTLE PERSONALLY CALLING FOR, AND ADJUSTING, A TWO
BATTERY FIRE MISSION.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/WDG.htm
Its use is described here by an OC in 42 Cdo during shipboard training on their way down to the Falklands to beat up the Argies in 1982:
THE OTHER MILITARY SKILL I WOULD HIGHLIGHT AS
RECEIVING PARTICULAR ATTENTION WAS THAT OF CALLING FOR
AND CONTROLING NAVAL, ARTILLERY, TANK AND MORTAR FIRE
SUPPORT. EVERY MAN IN MY COY WAS CAPABLE BY THE TIME
WE LANDED, OF CALLING FOR AND ADJUSTING FIRE SP, AND
HAD PRACTICED THIS ON WHAT WE CALL A "PUFF RANGE"; IN
THIS CASE A DETAILED CLOTH MODEL OF THE APPROACHES TO
PORT STANLEY BUILT IN THE EMPTY SWIMMING POOL UNDER THE
LANDING SPOT. I GOT A GREAT KICK PRIOR TO THE ACTUAL
BATTLE PERSONALLY CALLING FOR, AND ADJUSTING, A TWO
BATTERY FIRE MISSION.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1986/WDG.htm
Gunner Sweatie spent many a day under the puff table rolling the little table with the smoke generator on it. As the generator didn't work all that well, non-smoker Sweatie would end up puffing away on a cigarette and blowing smoke up the tube.
A puff table is a good device, but it has its limitations. First of these is that the view and perspective is really only correct from the point where the observer in the barrel sits. It is out of whack, especially for those at the ends of the benches. The graduations in the binoculars also are difficult to see and don't really line up.
In later life Sweatie fired quite a few missions on various puff ranges. It is good practice and an inexpensive way to learn the basics of target grid. It may seem very stone age compared to what is available these days, but it works.
A puff table is a good device, but it has its limitations. First of these is that the view and perspective is really only correct from the point where the observer in the barrel sits. It is out of whack, especially for those at the ends of the benches. The graduations in the binoculars also are difficult to see and don't really line up.
In later life Sweatie fired quite a few missions on various puff ranges. It is good practice and an inexpensive way to learn the basics of target grid. It may seem very stone age compared to what is available these days, but it works.
Haligonian
Sr. Member
- Reaction score
- 369
- Points
- 880
Thanks for the ideas guys.
