Transition to Municipal Police Force

[Booter]

I know she was partly elected on the rcmp nonsense- but I suspect the taxpayers may also want a police force that works as a cohesive unit and may be finished with all of this chaos. I suspect even the police there are done with it…

 

[RedFive]

I suspect even the police there are done with it…

SPS members are quitting faster than they can be hired.

SPS management continue to play silly games trying to assert their new Police force, making things worse for everybody on the road.

RCMP members are done with it and just want to leave, but can't be replaced. Morale is at an all time low. This is just another blow that's causing frustration, pain, limiting careers etc. Nobody from the RCMP became a Mountie to police the streets of Surrey their entire career, and yet its looking like that's going to be the case.

 

[daftandbarmy]

SPS members are quitting faster than they can be hired.

SPS management continue to play silly games trying to assert their new Police force, making things worse for everybody on the road.

RCMP members are done with it and just want to leave, but can't be replaced. Morale is at an all time low. This is just another blow that's causing frustration, pain, limiting careers etc. Nobody from the RCMP became a Mountie to police the streets of Surrey their entire career, and yet its looking like that's going to be the case.

At least they won't get bored


While much of Metro Vancouver is known for picturesque mountains and green landscapes, one city has been named the worst in Canada for crime. Two BC cities landed within the top 100 of Numbeo’s 2022 global crime index, including one in Metro Vancouver.

Surrey ranked #49 with a crime index of 64.34, making it the worst city for crime in Canada according to the global crime index. Kelowna ranked #92 with a crime index of 58.26.

Metro Vancouver city ranked worst in Canada on the global crime index | News

A Metro Vancouver city now has the dubious honour of being named the worst city in Canada on the Numbeo global crime index

dailyhive.com

 

[RedFive]

At least they won't get bored


While much of Metro Vancouver is known for picturesque mountains and green landscapes, one city has been named the worst in Canada for crime. Two BC cities landed within the top 100 of Numbeo’s 2022 global crime index, including one in Metro Vancouver.

Surrey ranked #49 with a crime index of 64.34, making it the worst city for crime in Canada according to the global crime index. Kelowna ranked #92 with a crime index of 58.26.

Metro Vancouver city ranked worst in Canada on the global crime index | News

A Metro Vancouver city now has the dubious honour of being named the worst city in Canada on the Numbeo global crime index

dailyhive.com

This would come as a surprise to literally none of us.

Its not the boredom to be worried about, its the burnout. The RCMP used to sustain and grow Surrey Detachment with 4+ recruits per Troop out of Depot, plentiful positions off of the road available with very little time spent on the road required, lots of opportunity for promo, things like that. You've now had the same bodies on the road for about 5 years (if they started exactly when McCallum announced "not one more penny for the RCMP", and most had a couple years on the road before that) in a city with a staggering CSI, less than half the resources of the only nearby comparable jurisdiction and PD (Vancouver has 1400 sworn members vs Surrey's maybe 700, and that doesn't even touch factors like the actual land mass of the patrol zone) and the constant political battle that's gone on.

 

[Booter]

Redfive it is an absolute travesty that you guys have been left behind in all this. It’s wrong. There will be enough burnout and moral injury that we ll have spent more than a few of you and it was unnecessary. None of those playing games are paying for it.

 

[Dhillongs]

The problem I find with this entire Surrey police force and I have been there a number of times I can't wait to get out of there. Just like Brampton and I have lived there as well so glad I left when I did. The problem that is going to come out of Surrey in a Surrey police force itself is that there are way too many integrations going on over there especially when it comes to criminal organization and especially in the South Asian Community. I am a South Asian myself been around it a long time so I know it all to well of what's the game, hence joining the Army and getting out of Brampton was a great calling to leave the environment. When you start taking in locals onto that police force the buddy system will take effect which is family vendettas, financial gains, help me out bro scenarios it's gonna go down the tank the good thing with the RCMP there was that they are on postings in and out no relation to the community as in we grew up together or my cousin knows your cousin and friends and family holding things on top of each other. RCMP was at least rotating with 0 invested interest by the members where are now it will be a lot different because these guys aren't going anywhere. All in all it's a terrible idea in my opinion.

 

[Booter]

There’s been a large quality control issue in SPS that will affect them in the future. More than a few of them ducked our of their home services to avoid police act and conduct charges.

 

[RedFive]

Redfive it is an absolute travesty that you guys have been left behind in all this. It’s wrong. There will be enough burnout and moral injury that we ll have spent more than a few of you and it was unnecessary. None of those playing games are paying for it.

Ironically, the RCMP is being mobbed by people requesting remount out of SPS.

Not surprisingly, we're taking almost every one of them. I'm aware of a couple that did too good a job burning the bridge on the way out who have been refused. Very frustratingly, all of them are refusing Surrey as a post and taking nice juicy posts elsewhere while those of us still in Surrey who have remained faithful to the Buffalo sit and wait for our promised "we'll give you anything you want as soon as SPS replaces you and as long as there's a vacancy"

We're also hiring experienced Police officers as fast as we can and giving them access to those same juicy posts (ERT, CFSEU-BC, IHIT, FSOC, etc) as fast as we can. Now obviously these muni's we're hiring are qualified to fill those spots and are usually hired from their previous employers when those employers demand them back from the same integrated units they're hired to fill a spot at. They don't want to go back to their home force to be put back on the road, so over they come. Cool. Great. What about the members who have always been Mounties, who went to Depot, did their time in a contract Detachment somewhere and had their eye on that spot? Now that RCMP spot on that integrated unit is filled with a shiny new experienced Police officer Mountie, and that career Mountie member who has slung files on the road in any one of a number of Detachments gets the sorry you're an unsuitable candidate email. Being a member in Surrey you might as well not even try because the answer is, and will always be "you're not currently releasable".

Don't even get me started on that Federal Policing hiring program with 12 weeks of training not at Depot. If that goes ahead, they need to refuse those people from our union, refuse them the right to wear the Red Serge and refuse them the same pay benefits or pension as actual Mounties. You can't just change the deal like that after this long, the path to the cool Federal level stuff the RCMP does has always been do your time on the road somewhere and we'll hire you for a Fed spot when you've made yourself the best possible candidate for the job. Now apparently you can just waltz in, do half the training, do none of the actual Police work but get all the benefits AND some of the best spots (job wise and geographically) the RCMP has to offer. Unreal.

I almost hope some white shirt reads this and figures out who I am so they can give me a code because at least it would mean somebody in this organization read it and is aware of what they're doing to us, even if they don't give a shit about their troops.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

SPS members are quitting faster than they can be hired.

SPS management continue to play silly games trying to assert their new Police force, making things worse for everybody on the road.

RCMP members are done with it and just want to leave, but can't be replaced. Morale is at an all time low. This is just another blow that's causing frustration, pain, limiting careers etc. Nobody from the RCMP became a Mountie to police the streets of Surrey their entire career, and yet its looking like that's going to be the case.

Yea my buddy out there is quite done with Surrey and wants a transfer.

 

[Booter]

Ironically, the RCMP is being mobbed by people requesting remount out of SPS.

Not surprisingly, we're taking almost every one of them. I'm aware of a couple that did too good a job burning the bridge on the way out who have been refused. Very frustratingly, all of them are refusing Surrey as a post and taking nice juicy posts elsewhere while those of us still in Surrey who have remained faithful to the Buffalo sit and wait for our promised "we'll give you anything you want as soon as SPS replaces you and as long as there's a vacancy"

We're also hiring experienced Police officers as fast as we can and giving them access to those same juicy posts (ERT, CFSEU-BC, IHIT, FSOC, etc) as fast as we can. Now obviously these muni's we're hiring are qualified to fill those spots and are usually hired from their previous employers when those employers demand them back from the same integrated units they're hired to fill a spot at. They don't want to go back to their home force to be put back on the road, so over they come. Cool. Great. What about the members who have always been Mounties, who went to Depot, did their time in a contract Detachment somewhere and had their eye on that spot? Now that RCMP spot on that integrated unit is filled with a shiny new experienced Police officer Mountie, and that career Mountie member who has slung files on the road in any one of a number of Detachments gets the sorry you're an unsuitable candidate email. Being a member in Surrey you might as well not even try because the answer is, and will always be "you're not currently releasable".

Don't even get me started on that Federal Policing hiring program with 12 weeks of training not at Depot. If that goes ahead, they need to refuse those people from our union, refuse them the right to wear the Red Serge and refuse them the same pay benefits or pension as actual Mounties. You can't just change the deal like that after this long, the path to the cool Federal level stuff the RCMP does has always been do your time on the road somewhere and we'll hire you for a Fed spot when you've made yourself the best possible candidate for the job. Now apparently you can just waltz in, do half the training, do none of the actual Police work but get all the benefits AND some of the best spots (job wise and geographically) the RCMP has to offer. Unreal.

I almost hope some white shirt reads this and figures out who I am so they can give me a code because at least it would mean somebody in this organization read it and is aware of what they're doing to us, even if they don't give a shit about their troops.

It’s the same with pre-posting deals for applicants or posting depot couples

We have a long list of disrespecting those who are doing the work.

HQs with 80 members that have been in the building for 20 years while they tell people Leaving their third isolated there is no where for them to go at HQ

The fed scheme is an absolute travesty, it’s actually worse than you are aware if what I learned the other day is true about those members and their career restrictions

 

[RedFive]

It’s the same with pre-posting deals for applicants or posting depot couples

We have a long list of disrespecting those who are doing the work.

HQs with 80 members that have been in the building for 20 years while they tell people Leaving their third isolated there is no where for them to go at HQ

The fed scheme is an absolute travesty, it’s actually worse than you are aware if what I learned the other day is true about those members and their career restrictions

Scientific WAG here. They'll always be in a juicy Fed spot and can never be moved without their permission, and can never be placed on the Contract side because they'll get themselves and others hurt and/or killed? Oh, and probably preference in promotions in those places because of those limitations?

Again, just a WAG.

 

[Booter]

You’re definitely on the trolley. But they can promote to contract if they feel like it lol just utter disrespect.

Now. As far as I know literally everything in that program is in flux and nothing is certain. So all these things could be addressed,

I think the only thing addressed so far is that my people can’t quit to apply to the fed side though

That they made sure couldn’t happen

It doesn’t affect me at all. I’ll never have any interest in the fed side. But I am agitated at the answers my people are getting.

Recruited and doing hard time in multiple posts on the chance of getting to do that work. Keeping the faith and doing their time being thrown aside and stepped in front of. That makes me angry.

No amount of honeyed words from Ottawa fixes that

Add on what you’re going through, and inevitable other municipalities that will be switching too…the running at 60% strength, the detachments closing…

 

[daftandbarmy]

Game and set, match to follow


B.C.'s Minister of Public Safety and Solicitor General Mike Farnworth introduced legislation today that if approved, would force the City of Surrey to complete its transition from the RCMP to the Surrey Police Service.

The amendments lay out a process that all municipalities must follow if they wish to change their police force.

"These amendments mean that the confusion caused by the City of Surrey won't be repeated elsewhere in B.C. When passed, these amendments will ensure policing transitions proceed in a way that provides certainty for people and maintains public safety," Farnworth said in a statement.

In July, the province used its powers to order the city to continue the transition from the RCMP to the Surrey Police Service (SPS). The order escalated existing acrimony between the two levels of government by effectively forcing Surrey's new council to reverse its decision to keep the RCMP. In response, the City of Surrey announced it was filing a petition in the B.C. Supreme Court challenging the provincial order.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/police-act-amendments-surrey-1.6998110

 

[OldSolduer]

So if I am reading this right Surrey kinda sorta wanted their own police force but for whatever reasons want the RCMP? WTF??

 

[SeaKingTacco]

So if I am reading this right Surrey kinda sorta wanted their own police force but for whatever reasons want the RCMP? WTF??

The previous Mayor wanted the RCMP out and a Surrey Police Service. Loses Municipal election, after getting arrested by RCMP. Charges get thrown out by a judge, well after election.

New Mayor gets elected by slim margin by campaigning on cancelling the SPS deal and bringing back RCMP. Confusion and bad morale ensue, all around.

Province has had just about enough of this crap, drops hammer on Surrey council- tells them SPS or bust. Surrey throws a fit and tries to go to court. Province introduces a bill to make sure this never happens again. The end?

I suspect there is even more to the story than this like a maybe BC Provincial Police Service coming down the pipe in the next decade and really high gang warfare in the south asian community in Surrey that makes policing a challenge at the best of times- even more so if you now are recruiting locally, once the RCMP is out.

I am sure that there are some details that I have missed…

 

[RangerRay]

The previous Mayor wanted the RCMP out and a Surrey Police Service. Loses Municipal election, after getting arrested by RCMP. Charges get thrown out by a judge, well after election.

New Mayor gets elected by slim margin by campaigning on cancelling the SPS deal and bringing back RCMP. Confusion and bad morale ensue, all around.

Province has had just about enough of this crap, drops hammer on Surrey council- tells them SPS or bust. Surrey throws a fit and tries to go to court. Province introduces a bill to make sure this never happens again. The end?

I suspect there is even more to the story than this like a maybe BC Provincial Police Service coming down the pipe in the next decade and really high gang warfare in the south asian community in Surrey that makes policing a challenge at the best of times- even more so if you now are recruiting locally, once the RCMP is out.

I am sure that there are some details that I have missed…

Yeah, in both cases you have mayors and councils being elected by a tiny amount of the electorate (most voters stay home for municipal elections) and bringing in huge changes in policing with no referenda.

Who’d a thought this would’ve become a dog’s breakfast?

 

[Ostrozac]

Scientific WAG here. They'll always be in a juicy Fed spot and can never be moved without their permission, and can never be placed on the Contract side because they'll get themselves and others hurt and/or killed? Oh, and probably preference in promotions in those places because of those limitations?

Again, just a WAG.

I’d extend your WAG to the ultimate objective being the quiet de-amalgamation of the RCMP back into the equivalent of its two precursor forces — the Dominion Police, a mostly plainclothes, mostly Ontario and Quebec based, force that did whatever the federal priority of day is, and the North West Mounted Police, a specially recruited constabulary intended to provide local police in rural and northern areas that couldn’t be counted on to provide their own municipal and provincial forces.

The decades of focus on contract policing don’t make much sense in retrospect — why wouldn’t most provinces be able to force generate their own police forces? Tasmania maintains their own police force, and it’s smaller by population than any Canadian province but PEI and Newfoundland — and of course Newfoundland policed itself pre-1949.

Unfortunately, breaking the back of contract policing will be a painful process, and lots of that pain will be felt by those wearing red serge that now find that the deal has been altered.

 

[brihard]

I’d extend your WAG to the ultimate objective being the quiet de-amalgamation of the RCMP back into the equivalent of its two precursor forces — the Dominion Police, a mostly plainclothes, mostly Ontario and Quebec based, force that did whatever the federal priority of day is, and the North West Mounted Police, a specially recruited constabulary intended to provide local police in rural and northern areas that couldn’t be counted on to provide their own municipal and provincial forces.

The decades of focus on contract policing don’t make much sense in retrospect — why wouldn’t most provinces be able to force generate their own police forces? Tasmania maintains their own police force, and it’s smaller by population than any Canadian province but PEI and Newfoundland — and of course Newfoundland policed itself pre-1949.

Unfortunately, breaking the back of contract policing will be a painful process, and lots of that pain will be felt by those wearing red serge that now find that the deal has been altered.

I can see the RCMP and federal government consciously and deliberately focusing away from contract policing. I wouldn’t mistake a successor federal police force as just Quebec and Ontario bound. RCMP federal policing has a presence across the country and a fairly extensive international posting network. National security, for instance, isn’t a threat unique to Toronto or Montreal. International and homegrown violent extremism remain a problem (growing, in some cases), foreign actor interference can happen anywhere, and transnational organized crime very much remains a thing in major cities and ports. That’s not to say RCMP will necessarily keep a federal footprint everywhere - do Whitehorse and Charlottetown need to be home ports for permanent federal units or can they hub out of Halifax and Vancouver? I dunno. But, whatever happens to contract policing, I would expect to see the RCMP federal footprint only grow.

As to that straight - to - federal recruit class they’re running, I glance at that and it appears to be entirely (this time around, at least) for their protective operations in Ottawa. The job posting also explicitly stated a preference for CAF veterans. I’ll be curious to hear what their recruit pool looks like, and if it becomes a nucleons for a longer term more sustained alternative hiring path right into federal. Though RCMP recruits going right to federal or protective from Depot definitely isn’t unheard of already.

 

[Infanteer]

I think the Ontario/Quebec thing was to describe where the Dominion Police were focused, not where Federal Policing is focused.

 

[brihard]

I think the Ontario/Quebec thing was to describe where the Dominion Police were focused, not where Federal Policing is focused.

Right, sorry. I’ve been exhausted all week and didn’t think that through.