Trust in our Institutions

[Rifleman62]

Haven’t seen that mentioned yet - where’d you pick up that tidbit?

On either CTV or CBC politics show after May's remarks.

If they hold back for political reasons, shows they’re putting politics above public trust about his members. And if he hasn’t, that feeds the haters’ position of “he doesn’t want to know” narrative.

Regrets, I don't buy that which is repeated by Liberals, and Liberals Commentators and Singh.

At the 6:33 mark. Tom says it best.

And:

 

[The Bread Guy]

On either CTV or CBC politics show after May's remarks.

Thx for that.

Regrets, I don't buy that which is repeated by Liberals, and Liberals Commentators and Singh.

Agree to disagree. I’m hearing that from more than just Team Red fan bois.

At the 6:33 mark. Tom says it best.

This IS an interesting take from a former opposition leader - thx for the clip. Sounds like advice from a former opposition leader on how to be a good opposition leader. Thing is that PP. wants to be PM, and at some point, someone’s going to ask him whether his own MP’s (some of whom, polling says so far, will be cabinet ministers) can be trusted if he doesn’t know. And if he does know, why isn’t he saying? He’s going to have to shift from opposition mode to “here’s what I would do/will do” mode.

I’m with the dude saying the party leaders should sit down together, put politics aside & hash it out like adults concerned about the state of democracy over partisan concerns. I also know the odds of that happening are about the same as me being able to order a unicorn loin chop at my fave butcher shop.

 

[Kirkhill]

Thx for that.

Agree to disagree. I’m hearing that from more than just Team Red fan bois.

This IS an interesting take from a former opposition leader - thx for the clip. Sounds like advice from a former opposition leader on how to be a good opposition leader. Thing is that PP. wants to be PM, and at some point, someone’s going to ask him whether he can trust his own MP’s (some of whom, polling says so far, will be cabinet ministers) can be trusted if he doesn’t know. And if he does know, why isn’t he saying? He’s going to have to shift from opposition mode to “here’s what I would do/will do” mode.

I’m with the dude saying the party leaders should sit down together, put politics aside & hash it out like adults concerned about the state of democracy over partisan concerns. I also know the odds of that happening are about the same as me being able to order a unicorn loin chop at my fave butcher shop.

Check the speed with which events happen in re the British and French elections.

A week ago the Tories were second to Labour. This week they are struggling to keep from slipping to third.
A week ago the French weren't planning on an election at all. Now they are in the midst of a campaign.

British Election July 4, 2024
French Election June 30 - July 7, 2024.

Canadian Election October 2025 (ish).

Time enough for Judge Hogue to come up with an appreciation on a problem that crosses party lines and can be dated to at least 13 Oct 1970 when Canada officially recognized the PRC of Mao Tse Tung over the ROC of Chiang Kai Shek and which troubles all of the Five Eyes and the OECD.

Not many clean hands on this one.

 

[dimsum]

This IS an interesting take from a former opposition leader - thx for the clip. Sounds like advice from a former opposition leader on how to be a good opposition leader. Thing is that PP. wants to be PM, and at some point, someone’s going to ask him whether he can trust his own MP’s (some of whom, polling says so far, will be cabinet ministers) can be trusted if he doesn’t know. And if he does know, why isn’t he saying? He’s going to have to shift from opposition mode to “here’s what I would do/will do” mode.

I’m with the dude saying the party leaders should sit down together, put politics aside & hash it out like adults concerned about the state of democracy over partisan concerns. I also know the odds of that happening are about the same as me being able to order a unicorn loin chop at my fave butcher shop.

Heh - I guess you watched/listened to Peter Mansbridge’s podcast yesterday too

 

[The Bread Guy]

Heh - I guess you watched/listened to Peter Mansbridge’s podcast yesterday too

Haven’t watched that one yet - and they’re to be believed way more than me, with any overlap purely coincidental.

Also, loadsa other commentators have echoed similar things - including the conservative operator here …

 

[Rifleman62]

There are apparently 1000 documents ( Cabinet "Secrets")that the Trudeaus will not release to Judge Hogue. Same goes for the Foreign Interference. Trudeau has known for years about this.
If PP renewed his TS, would he get the full story? I say NOT.
Has Trudeau got a TS clearance or are we just assuming he has?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

 

[FSTO]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians with none on Team Orange being kicked out
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

Just added a titch to your highlights package.

And I suspect everyone is telling a BIT of the truth

Also, the leaders who've said so have been clear about parliamentarians who deliberately did things being worthy of boot and/or criminal charges. What about those “semi-witting” folks?

 

[Brad Sallows]

Just added a titch to your highlights package.

And I suspect everyone is telling a BIT of the truth

Also, the leaders who've said so have been clear about parliamentarians who deliberately did things being worthy of boot and/or criminal charges. What about those “semi-witting” folks?

My opinion of Parliament is that pretty much all of them are only semi-wits.

 

[RangerRay]

Whether PP gets the clearance to read the NSICOP report, or gets a briefing from CSIS on the useful idiots in his caucus is important. By being seen as unwilling to read the report made him look unserious in wanting to know who the traitors are in his caucus.

MP’s have been dumped by their leaders and caucus on far flimsier evidence of lesser wrongdoing with no due process. At the very least, they could be sidelined to extremely unimportant roles within caucus. That he seems incurious about these people in his midst is troubling. By making this request of CSIS should hopefully nullify this criticism, but hopefully CSIS obliges.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

This is more annoying than trying to get my kids to fess up when they've nicked cookies from the cookie jar.

"Well it wasn't me..." doesn't change the fact that there aren't any cookies left and every last one of them have crumbs around the mouth.

 

[brihard]

Has Trudeau got a TS clearance or are we just assuming he has?

Not sure if it’s a security clearance processed the same as it would be for a government employee, but yes- the PM is cleared and with necessary indoctrinations to see any of the intelligence material necessary to make decisions at his level. Same for at least a good chunk of cabinet. So that would be TS plus various compartmentalized information that’s further restricted to protect sources and methods.

 

[Jarnhamar]

By being seen as unwilling to read the report made him look unserious in wanting to know who the traitors are in his caucus.

Here's my take.

If he did read it and decide to kick people out they would probably be able to successfully argue they haven't been proven guilty.

It would also weaken the Conservatives by losing MPs where other parties aren't following suit.

We can safely guess all parties have guilty MPs, and the party leaders will do their best to mitigate their own damages.

If Poilievre reads the report he's going to be accused of trying to protect CPC interests with whatever actions short of firing everyone) he does.

By not reading the report he can remain willfully blind to traitors, which he can't do anything about right now, and call for the names to be released and put all parties on the same footing. Then if he manages to fire anyone, other parties will have to as well or be seen as not taking it as seriously as the CPC.

3 other party leaders have read it, along with others (Joly) and they all have their own versions. There's no advantage to reading it.

 

[YZT580]

Here's my take.

If he did read it and decide to kick people out they would probably be able to successfully argue they haven't been proven guilty.

It would also weaken the Conservatives by losing MPs where other parties aren't following suit.

We can safely guess all parties have guilty MPs, and the party leaders will do their best to mitigate their own damages.

If Poilievre reads the report he's going to be accused of trying to protect CPC interests with whatever actions short of firing everyone) he does.

By not reading the report he can remain willfully blind to traitors, which he can't do anything about right now, and call for the names to be released and put all parties on the same footing. Then if he manages to fire anyone, other parties will have to as well or be seen as not taking it as seriously as the CPC.

3 other party leaders have read it, along with others (Joly) and they all have their own versions. There's no advantage to reading it.

he can also tell his caucus that after the next election if their names appear in the report they will be immediately dismissed from the party so, announce your family priorities and retire.

 

[Kirkhill]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

I think that Poilievre can ride out the NSICOP report with his current position a lot better than Trudeau can.

Come the next election my sense is that Canadians have already decided they don't like or trust Trudeau and that China is baked into that perception.

And Canadians don't like China or its buddy Russia much either.

 

[lenaitch]

Foreign Affairs Minister insists there are no ‘traitors’ in Liberal caucus​

<taken from reddit>
-May: no sitting mps
-Singh: involves sitting MPs and politicians
-Joly: No liberals mps
-Trudeau: I don't believe the report.

Depends on how they define 'traitor' I suppose.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Here's my take.

Great breakdown.

If he did read it and decide to kick people out they would probably be able to successfully argue they haven't been proven guilty.

It would also weaken the Conservatives by losing MPs where other parties aren't following suit.

But doing nothing, the question remains open re: "how safe are these guys who are going to end up as cabinet ministers under a Team Blue government?" He will have enough time between being elected and being sworn in/naming a cabinet to act.

We can safely guess all parties have guilty MPs, and the party leaders will do their best to mitigate their own damages.

Team Orange coach has said nobody's getting the boot, so that means nobody on his team (if we take him at his original word) deliberately helped potential bad actors/countries.

If Poilievre reads the report he's going to be accused of trying to protect CPC interests with whatever actions short of firing everyone) he does.

By not reading the report he can remain willfully blind to traitors, which he can't do anything about right now, and call for the names to be released and put all parties on the same footing. Then if he manages to fire anyone, other parties will have to as well or be seen as not taking it as seriously as the CPC.

As a party leader, I suspect there has to be other mechanisms to deal with bad actors without needing all of caucus to agree. I stand to be corrected by anyone knowing the internal biz guts of Team Blue, though.

3 other party leaders have read it, along with others (Joly) and they all have their own versions.

Bang on - 3 reads, 3 takes.

There's no advantage to reading it.

The advantage is he looks like he wants to know whazzup on his team, without blaming someone else for not knowing whazzup, and that he puts the protection of the integrity of his team (the future governing team, if polling trends continue and prove true) before keeping as many political tools available. It also lets him start the reframing of PP as future PM instead of just opposition leader poking for the sake of poking.

 

[OldSolduer]

"There is something rotten in the state of Denmark"

There has to be some truth to this report despite our Dear Leader publicly wondering if the report is even true. It is apparent JT does not trust CSIS probably because the truth is coming to light.