U.S. Annexing Canada (split fm Liberal Minority thread)

[dimsum]

Someone ought to remind three-in-five Canadians that only Congress has the power to declare war.

Who really supposes that Trump would attack a NATO ally (Canada or Denmark) militarily and not:

• be resisted by essentially the entire military command structure that matters, and
• be impeached and convicted as quickly as the process allows?

I can’t remember who said it, but to paraphrase:

I’m not worried about whether the US military will follow through with it. I’m worried about the militant parts of his base that will take it as a call to follow through with it.

Then you have a situation where the US military may be used to stop other Americans from crossing the border up to Canada to start things - which won’t end well I’m sure. Those folks would likely see the US military as infiltrated by “woke leftists”, if they haven’t already.

 

[Halifax Tar]

…and folks like me see it as “…is he, though?”

He was elected the first time as someone who “says it like it is”, and some of his supporters still think that. As we have seen, Smith has come back saying that he doesn’t intend to change the tariff situation. That would seem in-line with my point above.

Taking politics out of it - say you were in school and the class bully is about to take your lunch money. He says he’ll punch you until you give him said money, and his crew say that he means it. His previous “bargaining” style was to do just that to other people. Would you just hand over the $ whenever he asks, or would you push back knowing that he would win in a fight?

Tariffs are coming. The 51st state, I don't think so.

It's not about being a bully. He's putting his country first. We should try that for once.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You missed the point again. The Quebec Premier doesn't have to go anywhere to strike a deal. Deals seem to always fall into Quebec's favoured basket.
Plus always talking about separation.

I would say Ont and Que have had the country over a barrel for too long and the political field needs to be leveled.

And Que told to leave with their tiny strip of land along the St Lawrence if required.

And this is coming from a proud Ontarian now sadly living in outer regions of Canada.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Taking politics out of it - say you were in school and the class bully is about to take your lunch money.

The class bully is about to take Americans' lunch money. Also, he's not about to "punch" (use military force) anyone. Find other analogies.

People really need to stop losing sight of who pays tariffs on imports. All this chest puffery and belligerent threats coming from politicians and lifelong anti-American opinion/propaganda mongers is counter-productive even if they don't follow through. Instead of reaching for the harshest options first, let's stick to information operations - explain loudly and clearly and relentlessly what parts of American retail prices are tariffs, who pays them (Americans), and where the money is going (US government) - and seek to weather the storm by improving economic performance elsewhere.

We already know we impose economic inefficiencies on ourselves. Trump is threatening to add economic inefficiency to Canada-US trade. Let's remove some of those self-inflicted economic inefficiencies and buy some time to weather the aforementioned storm until American consumers press their own government into abandoning policies which drive up their costs of living.

The federal government has known for a couple of months what Trump proposes and that he is going to be in a position to give it effect, and so far it has managed to go sit in a corner while the LPC take their time puzzling out how to minimize damage to their future electoral prospects. Meanwhile they make threats at the expense of (mostly) others. F*ck them, the horses they rode in on, and all that look like them.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Good video

PEI premier touring the states right now as well.

 

[Brad Sallows]

I can’t remember who said it, but to paraphrase:

I’m not worried about whether the US military will follow through with it. I’m worried about the militant parts of his base that will take it as a call to follow through with it.

Then you have a situation where the US military may be used to stop other Americans from crossing the border up to Canada to start things - which won’t end well I’m sure. Those folks would likely see the US military as infiltrated by “woke leftists”, if they haven’t already.

Oh, for f*ck's sakes. The malcontents that haven't been arsed to lift a finger against the powers in their own country are going to express their rage by attempting to cross the border to commit acts of terror in Canada because their own government is making them pay taxes on Canadian imports? And we should start quivering our lips because of this safety concern?

The US accepted a lot of loss of freedoms because of the 9/11 attacks, which at least were a grave and concrete event. Darned if I'm going to worry about any absurdly far-fetched bed-wetting scenarios.

 

[IKnowNothing]

People really need to stop losing sight of who pays tariffs on imports. All this chest puffery and belligerent threats coming from politicians and lifelong anti-American opinion/propaganda mongers is counter-productive even if they don't follow through. Instead of reaching for the harshest options first, let's stick to information operations - explain loudly and clearly and relentlessly what parts of American retail prices are tariffs, who pays them (Americans), and where the money is going (US government) - and seek to weather the storm by improving economic performance elsewhere.

I'm very curious to see how elastic American demand is in the shortterm, and how sticky the impacted integrated supply chains are.

 

[Kirkhill]

We’re agreeing in that the systems are different. We’re not agreeing whether the Canadian or American system is better.

The US is 50 different locations tenuously cobbled together, highlighted best by the fact that how a federal election is counted depends on the state. I think the last few years have really tested the “united” part of the United States.

As someone who hss spent a lifetime engineering systems on both sides of the border I can tell you that Canada has 14 discrete legal jurisdictions.

In the States municipal inspectors troubled me more than State or Federal ones.

 

[dimsum]

Oh, for f*ck's sakes. The malcontents that haven't been arsed to lift a finger against the powers in their own country are going to express their rage by attempting to cross the border to commit acts of terror in Canada because their own government is making them pay taxes on Canadian imports? And we should start quivering our lips because of this safety concern?

The US accepted a lot of loss of freedoms because of the 9/11 attacks, which at least were a grave and concrete event. Darned if I'm going to worry about any absurdly far-fetched bed-wetting scenarios.

In Jan 6, 2021, those folks went against their own Capitol because Trump didn’t like that he lost.

This year, on Jan 1, a Trump supporter blew up a Cybertruck in front of Trump Tower in NYC.

It might not be the size and scope of J6, but it is most definitely not out of the realm of possibility that some folks, spurred on by then-President Trump’s previous statements, would take it as some approval to do something.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Good video

PEI premier touring the states right as well.

People need to understand that economic 'union' between Canada and the US is not much different than the existing economic union between Germany and France or Belgium and Netherlands or Spain and Portugal or Austria and Germany or Belgium and Italy or Czech Republic and France or Romania and Greece, etc, etc, etc and etc. If these countries, which in many, many, many cases having been invading, killing, absorbing, persecuting, attempting linguistic, religious, cultural and sociolegal dominancy for centuries against each other, are able to come together for an economical and quasi political union - then why can't Canada and the US (and Mexico, the Caribbean, Central and South America)?

Please stop saying that the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Its not - its the current way that the world is evolving - and to expect that little old Canada, with its 38-40 million 'citizens' (and I question the loyalty of a few million of that number), can change/alter the course of this trend, please rethink your thoughts.

 

[Kirkhill]

The class bully is about to take Americans' lunch money. Also, he's not about to "punch" (use military force) anyone. Find other analogies.

People really need to stop losing sight of who pays tariffs on imports. All this chest puffery and belligerent threats coming from politicians and lifelong anti-American opinion/propaganda mongers is counter-productive even if they don't follow through. Instead of reaching for the harshest options first, let's stick to information operations - explain loudly and clearly and relentlessly what parts of American retail prices are tariffs, who pays them (Americans), and where the money is going (US government) - and seek to weather the storm by improving economic performance elsewhere.

We already know we impose economic inefficiencies on ourselves. Trump is threatening to add economic inefficiency to Canada-US trade. Let's remove some of those self-inflicted economic inefficiencies and buy some time to weather the aforementioned storm until American consumers press their own government into abandoning policies which drive up their costs of living.

The federal government has known for a couple of months what Trump proposes and that he is going to be in a position to give it effect, and so far it has managed to go sit in a corner while the LPC take their time puzzling out how to minimize damage to their future electoral prospects. Meanwhile they make threats at the expense of (mostly) others. F*ck them, the horses they rode in on, and all that look like them.

Tariffs do two things.

They make it more attractive to invest locally, behind the tariff wall.

They create jobs that employ people so thst they have the money to be able to buy stuff even if the prices are elevated.

Cheap goods are no good to consumers if they don't have the money to buy them.

 

[OldSolduer]

I’m not worried about a flood of Americans crossing the border to cause mayhem. The 25% tariff is far more concerning IMO

FWIW the anti American feeling (bordering on arrogance) has been part of us since 1 July 1867.
We need a government that can budget correctly and further our interests internationally.

Maybe the next government will think about the economy, don’t let the budget balance itself and have a basic dislike of the Chinese government

 

[Kirkhill]

People need to understand that economic 'union' between Canada and the US is not much different than the existing economic union between Germany and France or Belgium and Netherlands or Spain and Portugal or Austria and Germany or Belgium and Italy or Czech Republic and France or Romania and Greece, etc, etc, etc and etc. If these countries, which in many, many, many cases having been invading, killing, absorbing, persecuting, attempting linguistic, religious, cultural and sociolegal dominancy for centuries against each other, are able to come together for an economical and quasi political union - then why can't Canada and the US (and Mexico, the Caribbean, Central and South America)?

Please stop saying that the sky is falling, the sky is falling. Its not - its the current way that the world is evolving - and to expect that little old Canada, with its 38-40 million 'citizens' (and I question the loyalty of a few million of that number), can change/alter the course of this trend, please rethink your thoughts.

Pan Pan. Pan Pan. CC.

If you argued argued against Brexit why aren't you supporting a Canada-US customs union?

 

[Brad Sallows]

In Jan 6, 2021, those folks went against their own Capitol because Trump didn’t like that he lost.

So we should worry that a bunch of people are going to cross the border in busloads to show up on Parliament Hill?

This year, on Jan 1, a Trump supporter blew up a Cybertruck in front of Trump Tower in NYC.

Perhaps you mean Las Vegas? Regardless, there's a long thin tail of probability above "zero" and it's irrational to wallow in anxiety about extremely low odds events.

Yes, some Trump-aligned crazies or NeverTrump-aligned crazies or some other kinds of crazies from the universe of crazy causes might do things. So what? What elevates some of them above the others?

Focus on the problem at hand. How do we compensate for whatever economic drag Trump's tariffs introduce for long enough for American consumers to tar-and-feather their own government into backing off?

 

[dimsum]

So we should worry that a bunch of people are going to cross the border in busloads to show up on Parliament Hill?

I literally said that it wouldn’t be the same in size and scope to J6.

Perhaps you mean Las Vegas? Regardless, there's a long thin tail of probability above "zero" and it's irrational to wallow in anxiety about extremely low odds events.

Yes, some Trump-aligned crazies or NeverTrump-aligned crazies or some other kinds of crazies from the universe of crazy causes might do things. So what? What elevates some of them above the others?

Focus on the problem at hand. How do we compensate for whatever economic drag Trump's tariffs introduce for long enough for American consumers to tar-and-feather their own government into backing off?

Would I, a random Canadian citizen, wallow? No.

But should our LE and CI folks consider it? Yes.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Tariffs do two things.

They make it more attractive to invest locally, behind the tariff wall.

If you think the tariff is going to endure. Americans just voted in part to express dissatisfaction with their costs of living. How sensitive will they be to price increases in fundamental commodities? I can guess that the prudent business advice is: wait it out.

They create jobs that employ people so thst they have the money to be able to buy stuff even if the prices are elevated.

That's just part of investing locally. So, one thing. And we've left out the part about how long it takes for major resource extraction projects to get going, and how big the capability gaps are, and similar number-crunching exercises for everything else down to rubber ducks.

Too many people, including many who have educations and credentials which suggest they ought to know better, are doing the headless chicken dance based on qualitative thinking rather than quantitative thinking, with good measures of visceral anti-Americanism or anti-Trumpism thrown in. I don't care about other peoples' neurotic fixations; I just want them to wallow in their fears quietly in the comfort of their panic rooms. The ones who are trying to inflate a crisis into opportunities, I could just wish were forcibly restrained and ball-gagged.

 

[Czech_pivo]

Pan Pan. Pan Pan. CC.

If you argued argued against Brexit why aren't you supporting a Canada-US customs union?

I'm sorry but I think that this is case where us typing on keyboards from different locations means that I'm not able to clearly understand what information your trying to convey. If we were talking face to face or over the phone I'm sure that this wouldn't be the case.

 

[Kirkhill]

I'm sorry but I think that this is case where us typing on keyboards from different locations means that I'm not able to clearly understand what information your trying to convey. If we were talking face to face or over the phone I'm sure that this wouldn't be the case.

Not talking to you directly. I was thinking that a lot of the Canadian nationalists here are the same people that were recommending that Britain remain subsumed in the EU.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Not talking to you directly. I was thinking that a lot of the Canadian nationalists here are the same people that were recommending that Britain remain subsumed in the EU.

I think an economic union is one thing.

I think a social and immigration policy union is another. Countries in Europe have seemingly given over their sovereignty to the EU Parliament.

I would support a North American Economic union, but that is as far as I would support a union between the countries of NA.

 

[Remius]

There is also an immense imbalance between Canada and the US. Would we have an equal vote and seat? Would we create a new currency with equal say on its policy? Would Americans accept a picture of Sir John A on the back of their dollar? All doubtful.

We already have a great integrated supply system and free trade agreement. The only improvement I would see is free movement. So create a North American passport? Sure. I’d rather like to see an anglosphere version of that.