U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[geo]

Yes, they sure did take an oath. In that oath it say something about domestic enemies.

The oath does not limit itself to "domestic" or "Foreign" / "Real" or "Imagined" ennemies.

If they felt squeamish at the time it was thrust into their hands, they shoulda spoken up at that time... not years later

 

[Trinity]

"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

http://www.marines.com/page/Oath.jsp

Don't forget the other part of the oath. 

Even if it is about oil and not enemies, I will obey the orders of the President of the United states and of the officers appointed over me

 

[eerickso]

The oath does not limit itself to "domestic" or "Foreign" / "Real" or "Imagined" ennemies.

You did hear what Greenspan said?

 

[eerickso]

http://www.marines.com/page/Oath.jsp

Don't forget the other part of the oath.   

Even if it is about oil and not enemies, I will obey the orders of the President of the United states and of the officers appointed over me

Fair enough.

Maybe we should be seeing more Officers coming to Canaada.  Read the oath for Marine Officers.

 

[Kat Stevens]

The Marine Officer Oath of Office
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter. So help me God.


Here it is, what's your point?

 

[eerickso]

My point is that if the United States starts putting lots of officers in jail, they might gain some practise and impeach the president who also took an oath of office..

 

[Fusaki]

My point is that if the United States starts putting lots of officers in jail, they might gain some practise and impeach the president who also took an oath of office..

You're grasping at straws here, man.

Deserters are criminals and should be treated as such, regardless of how you feel about the POTUS. I get the feeling you're just arguing now for the sake of it, nevermind the fact that you don't have a leg to stand on... :

 

[eerickso]

True enough.

They are criminals and I agree that most of them are doing it out of their own convenience.

However, some might be deserting out of disgust for the current president and I feel a little bit sorry for them. Not alot but a little bit.

 

[Fusaki]

However, some might be deserting out of disgust for the current president and I feel a little bit sorry for them. Not alot but a little bit.

I dont.

When you sign on the dotted line you accept the fact that you might one day deploy to a place you don't want to be, ordered there by a person you might not really like. You also sign on knowing that its quite possible that you may die in military service.

These realities are a necessary part of any professional military. If you can't come to terms with them then you shouldn't be volunteering for military service.

Its not a fucking secret. No one was tricked.

 

[eerickso]

Ok so,

If you are an 18 years old and join the US Army.
At some time later you realize that you are doing the work of the devil.
Tough crap eh.

Wow, you would make a good RSM.

 

[George Wallace]

At some time later you realize that you are no doing the work of the devil.

What exactly kind of comment is that?

 

[eerickso]

Sorry, I was giving an example. Instead of US Army lets say the SS

 

[LineDoggie]

True enough.

They are criminals and I agree that most of them are doing it out of their own convenience.

However, some might be deserting out of disgust for the current president and I feel a little bit sorry for them. Not alot but a little bit.

Wow, what an interesting U.S. Military some would have....

"Joe" gets to choose who he will listen to among his superiors-Nah, I only will listen to the [Insert choice: Code Pink, A.N.S.W.E.R., CPUSA, SWA, Kieth Olberman, etc.] screw My appointed Officers & Non-Coms and Elected Leaders

"Joe" gets to choose where, or if he wishes to fight: Sorry Sarge, I dont feel like Being a man today, maybe tommorrow. I might be tempted if were fighting in Iceland, but Iraqi's shoot back

"Joe" gets to run away to Canada where he thinks he should be treated like the Rolling Stones, instead of being clapped in Irons- Wait , what do you mean I cant live off the Canadians forever. I'm a He-ro Dammit, I fought the "Man", ATTICA, ATTICA :

"Joe" gets to avoid ever being personally responsible for his actions, like the man he supposedly was upon Enlistment.

 

[LineDoggie]

Sorry, I was giving an example. Instead of US Army lets say the SS

Ahh, the typical Invoking of the Nazi Regime, Godwin is proud of you today

 

[RangerRay]

Ok so,

If you are an 18 years old and join the US Army.
At some time later you realize that you are doing the work of the devil.
Tough crap eh.

Notwithstanding the "work of the devil" crap...

Refuse to go on tour, turn yourself in to the MP's, go to trial, and do your time in prison like a man, just like Cassius Clay (aka Mohammed Ali).

Or before you even think your unit is being shipped out, put in for VR.

 

[medaid]

Mountainliving... What kind of crack are smoking? What ever it is I think you should put it down. That US Army comparison was uncalled for.

 

[Fusaki]

If you are an 18 years old and join the US Army.
At some time later you realize that you are doing the work of the devil.
Tough crap eh.

You're reading me loud and clear.

You can't call yourself an adult, then shift the blame onto someone else when you regret your decisions. Real life is not a game where you can just take your ball and go home when things don't go your way. Being an adult is about making choices and accepting the outcomes, for better or worse.  It's called personal responsibility, being accountable for your own actions.

Wow, you would make a good RSM.

Thanks, but handlebar moustaches just don't suit me.  ;D

 

[eerickso]

Ok, seriously. I am convinced.  Deport them all.

I apoligize.  Replace the SS with the Wehrmacht or some other unfortunate Army.

 

[geo]

Mountainliving:  American citzens are all VOLUNTEERS.

From the US army web site.......

Active Duty is similar to working at a full-time civilian job. There are hours when, as a Soldier, you will be training or performing your job, and then there are off-hours when you can do what you like. For an Active Duty Soldier, your length of service can range from two to six years. Typical deployments are 12 months in length, and after six months, Soldiers are usually eligible for a two-week Rest & Relaxation (R&R) leave. The exact length of deployment depends on each unit’s specific mission.

http://www.goarmy.com/about/active_duty_and_reserve.jsp

The US military (and ours) will only enlist "adults"... not children.  As an adult, you are expected to live up to the committment to which you have agreed to - and taken the pay for.  Note the Military has spent money on training you in the trade of YOUR choice & paid you for your time and trouble.  If you sign up for 2 or 6 years - live up to your end of the bargain and you will be allowed to retire / release - departing on good terms.

If you do not agree - that's a shame... but you should not be making excuses for them

 

[vonGarvin]

The analogy I would like to offer is one of a person who enters into a contract with someone else.  If that person later decides to break that contract, then they are in breach.  Normally (in real life, anyway), there are penalties.  If a person borrows money from a bank, and then cannot pay it back for whatever reason, then that person has broken a contract and penalties are enforced.  There is plenty of precedent for this. 
So, a person may argue that the armed force (in this case) has not put a commitment in as perhaps a bank, which has lent its money out.  I would argue that no, the armed force has indeed made a commitment.  In some cases, that includes education (paid for in exchange for military service, or even in teaching a very marketable trade, such as a vehicle mechanic or what have you).  As well, given that some potential recruits are told to wait until availability, the net result is that the military force in question loses out.

In any event, people who joined the US forces after say February 2003 don't have a leg to stand on when it comes to "CO" status.  Do your time and then get out is one option.  If your objection is really related to concern for your personal safety vice the moral conduct of a war, then I would suggest that said person is a coward.

Cassius Clay (aka "Mohammed Ali") was drafted (against his will) and had a moral objection against the ongoing war in Vietnam, and I believe against military service in general.  In any event, he went public with his objection and faced his consequences, knowing full well what they were.  That is what takes courage, in my opinion, much more than running away and then spouting off in public once you are behind a (real or imagined) wall.