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Kat Stevens said:
Good idea. I'll do that this evening when I have the time to concentrate.
U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread
- Thread starter Devlin
- Start date
Good idea. I'll do that this evening when I have the time to concentrate.
The Iraq War is Unconstitutional
Article 1 Section 8 US Constitution states that it is the duty of congress "To declare war". They have transferred this responsibility to the executive branch without majority vote, according to a number of US Senators (both republican and democratic). This action requires constitutional amendment. This is in violation of the U.S. Constitution. The Iraq War is unconstitutional.
Collateral Damage
"a Marine communique from Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi reported that ... 15 Iraqi civilians were killed by the blast." -Time Magazine March 19, 2006.
"Fifteen Iraqi civilians -- all women and children -- were killed by coalition forces during an operation targeting senior leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq, according to the U.S. military," -CNN, October 12, 2007.
I've given examples from each side, the Iraqi insurgency/resistance as well as coalition forces.
The Iraq War causes collateral damage.
Imperialism
"1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries" -Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Should we all assume that the rest of the world is enamoured with the American way of life? And strives to emulate their systems of government and economy? I find that very egotistical.
The United States is the rule and authority in Iraq.
The Iraq war is an imperialist action on the part of the United States.
Greed
Financial
"“There is such a thirst for gain among military suppliers that it is enough to make one curse their own Species, for possessing so little virtue and patriotism.” -- President George Washington, 1778
The Iraq war costs roughly $200 million dollars every day. (Martin Wolk, Chief economics correspondent, MSNBC, 2006) The money to pay for this comes from the US Federal Reserve, after the White House asks congress to provide additional funding. Usually to the tune of dozens of billions of dollars per request. The money is being spent not only on providing servicemen and women with the tools they need, but also to private companies such as Halliburton, KBR and Bechtel, who are tasked with the reconstruction efforts on Iraq's infrastructure. The contracts for these reconstruction efforts are worth millions, though Iraqi's complain of shoddy work, cut corners and even "One 'repaired' school was overflowing with unflushed sewage" -Iraqi teacher, Baghdad.
"War profiteers in Iraq pursue quick fixes and high profits by overcharging for shoddy work, while Iraqis protest that they could do the work better and cheaper." -Pratap Chatterjee and Herbert Docena, Institute for Southern Studies, Baghdad, 2004.
Political
The Patriot Act. A near-Orwellian piece of legislation that wages a campaign of fear and oppression against the American people under the guise of national security.
Fear...
Propaganda
The fear mongering Bush administration has produced some classic and timeless examples of propaganda. The American public are made to believe that the world outside their homes is as dangerous as the streets of Fallujah and Baghdad. They are assaulted constantly by "Action News" telling of the latest homicide and vague terrorist threat. Buzzwords are shoved down their throats via the news media about terrorists and foiled plots and home bases for terrorism. Their leaders tell stories of "cutting and running", they're made to feel like complete cowards if they think the war should end. What is an insurgent? What is an insurgent, more than a resistor?
Peter Phillips of Global Research writes:
"Three years ago I met a Dutch journalist, Willem Oltman, at the International Campaign Against US Aggression on Iraq in Cairo, Egypt. Oltman described his teen years during World War II in the Dutch resistance movement. "The Nazi's called us terrorists," he exclaimed. "Now as the US invades and occupies other countries you do the same thing," he added.
Article 1 Section 8 US Constitution states that it is the duty of congress "To declare war". They have transferred this responsibility to the executive branch without majority vote, according to a number of US Senators (both republican and democratic). This action requires constitutional amendment. This is in violation of the U.S. Constitution. The Iraq War is unconstitutional.
Collateral Damage
"a Marine communique from Camp Blue Diamond in Ramadi reported that ... 15 Iraqi civilians were killed by the blast." -Time Magazine March 19, 2006.
"Fifteen Iraqi civilians -- all women and children -- were killed by coalition forces during an operation targeting senior leaders of al Qaeda in Iraq, according to the U.S. military," -CNN, October 12, 2007.
I've given examples from each side, the Iraqi insurgency/resistance as well as coalition forces.
The Iraq War causes collateral damage.
Imperialism
"1. the policy of extending the rule or authority of an empire or nation over foreign countries" -Merriam-Webster Dictionary
Should we all assume that the rest of the world is enamoured with the American way of life? And strives to emulate their systems of government and economy? I find that very egotistical.
The United States is the rule and authority in Iraq.
The Iraq war is an imperialist action on the part of the United States.
Greed
Financial
"“There is such a thirst for gain among military suppliers that it is enough to make one curse their own Species, for possessing so little virtue and patriotism.” -- President George Washington, 1778
The Iraq war costs roughly $200 million dollars every day. (Martin Wolk, Chief economics correspondent, MSNBC, 2006) The money to pay for this comes from the US Federal Reserve, after the White House asks congress to provide additional funding. Usually to the tune of dozens of billions of dollars per request. The money is being spent not only on providing servicemen and women with the tools they need, but also to private companies such as Halliburton, KBR and Bechtel, who are tasked with the reconstruction efforts on Iraq's infrastructure. The contracts for these reconstruction efforts are worth millions, though Iraqi's complain of shoddy work, cut corners and even "One 'repaired' school was overflowing with unflushed sewage" -Iraqi teacher, Baghdad.
"War profiteers in Iraq pursue quick fixes and high profits by overcharging for shoddy work, while Iraqis protest that they could do the work better and cheaper." -Pratap Chatterjee and Herbert Docena, Institute for Southern Studies, Baghdad, 2004.
Political
The Patriot Act. A near-Orwellian piece of legislation that wages a campaign of fear and oppression against the American people under the guise of national security.
Fear...
Propaganda
The fear mongering Bush administration has produced some classic and timeless examples of propaganda. The American public are made to believe that the world outside their homes is as dangerous as the streets of Fallujah and Baghdad. They are assaulted constantly by "Action News" telling of the latest homicide and vague terrorist threat. Buzzwords are shoved down their throats via the news media about terrorists and foiled plots and home bases for terrorism. Their leaders tell stories of "cutting and running", they're made to feel like complete cowards if they think the war should end. What is an insurgent? What is an insurgent, more than a resistor?
Peter Phillips of Global Research writes:
"Three years ago I met a Dutch journalist, Willem Oltman, at the International Campaign Against US Aggression on Iraq in Cairo, Egypt. Oltman described his teen years during World War II in the Dutch resistance movement. "The Nazi's called us terrorists," he exclaimed. "Now as the US invades and occupies other countries you do the same thing," he added.
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Strike said:
It's a shame we don't have more information on he exact reasons for not wanting to go back. All we know is he changed his opinion, all else is speculation.
However, regardless of his reasons, it's not right he's using Canada as shield to avoid the punishment of his actions.
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Dude -- lay off the crack pipe -- I work for USAID in Iraq -- 99.9% of Iraqi's are VERY VERY happy with the regime change and the ability of the individual to try to better themselves. Sure its not great -- but it is a hell of a lot better than it was -- and it gets better day by day ---- the trip you spew would have had us leave German and japan in post war ruins and not attempt to rebuild.
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willsfarm said:
I6 - he's got a valid point on the stats.
ALL - lets keep away from the personal attacks.
And YES - I'll split this topic tonight (I'm on the West coast - so it'll seem later to some of you) - splitting takes a little concentration, which isn't available to me when "driving by" during the day.
Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff
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I'm a primary source -- I can make up stats just like anyone else -- however unlike the sources you quoted I am here.
Its a war zone in some areas, would you like me to lie to you and say it has raibow fields and jellybean rivers (or whatever tripe Sean Penn was spouting).
However the ruler is democratically elected -- and not the one we wanted so you know it was fair.
The gov't is some what (haphazardly) responsible to the people (we shall see in the next election who gets re-elected).
OIF removed one of the worlds worst tyranical dictators, no there have been hickups and some incredibly stupid (Bremmer) decisions.
However give Iraq 5 year...
Its a war zone in some areas, would you like me to lie to you and say it has raibow fields and jellybean rivers (or whatever tripe Sean Penn was spouting).
However the ruler is democratically elected -- and not the one we wanted so you know it was fair.
The gov't is some what (haphazardly) responsible to the people (we shall see in the next election who gets re-elected).
OIF removed one of the worlds worst tyranical dictators, no there have been hickups and some incredibly stupid (Bremmer) decisions.
However give Iraq 5 year...
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Knowing I-6 is there, and knowing people whom I respect who know him and respect him as a source, I'm inclined to accept what he's saying over someone who has never been there or in situation like Iraq and pulls stats off the internet. But hey, that's just me. Maybe I'm a sheep.
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See, those of us actually in the military learn that one of the best sources of intelligence and of local feeling and attitude is those with boots on the ground.
You're arguing semantics here. Sure, maybe it's not 99.9% mathematically, but we all get the point that I-6 is saying the large majority of those he interacted with.
You're arguing semantics here. Sure, maybe it's not 99.9% mathematically, but we all get the point that I-6 is saying the large majority of those he interacted with.
- Reaction score
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Well when you consider how I framed it...
I have yet to meet anyone Sunni or Shiite (or Khurd for that matter to go figure) who is a Big Sadam fan. Granted I've not been to old Sadam's home town and thus the Sunni there may really like the guy.
Do they all like the US invasion -- most do -- do they like what happened after -- well not really, however most I've dealt with seem to accept that mistakes are made and need to be dealt with -- others simply mumble insha allah.
Of course BigRed and I also generate carbon credits with those who don't like my math
I have yet to meet anyone Sunni or Shiite (or Khurd for that matter to go figure) who is a Big Sadam fan. Granted I've not been to old Sadam's home town and thus the Sunni there may really like the guy.
Do they all like the US invasion -- most do -- do they like what happened after -- well not really, however most I've dealt with seem to accept that mistakes are made and need to be dealt with -- others simply mumble insha allah.
Of course BigRed and I also generate carbon credits with those who don't like my math
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willsfarm said:
Well here's an idea. You head on over yourself, take a poll of the locals and come back and let us know what percentage is more accurate. until then I'll take I-6s someone I know as opposed to someone in cyber space.
( Hey Roy got volunteered to be Duty Mod on this thread, so I'm just posting as a regular site member)
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Danjanou said:
The whole world loves a smartass.
:-*
Roy
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I will admit BigRed and I got a hell of wake up last year with our neighbour firing his Ak in celebration of Sadam dropping to his fate, all 4m from my bedroom -- he had lost a brother and two sons to Sadam's thugs. Of course I was a little startled and was up in no time -- naked guy with M4 in the window (no pics sorry saving them for the book ^-^)
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If they are sent back to the US what is the very worst thing that can happen to them? They will be arrested & placed under detention by the SPs. They will be charged, sentenced & dishonorably discharged. The US gov't isn't looking for a media Martyr - so asside from stripping them of their rights to a service penison & benefits, they'll probably get tossed out onto the street with their bad conduct dicharge papers & left to their own devices to eek out a living doing minimum wage work with the Illegal immigrants.
Drive them up to a US border crossing and give em a friendly push to get them started.
PLEASE!
You're in cyberspace too chief, this is a public forum, much to your chagrin. I don't care for your attitude, I don't need to be suggested to visit Iraq. If you care to accept 9.9 out of 10, then your suggestions aren't worth the binary code they're embedded on.
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willsfarm said:
What is it about "refraining from personal attacks" that you don't get?
Take it to PMs.
Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff
That's not a personal attack. It just isn't, especially compared to the personal attacks I've endured. You guys are completely unfair, completely unfair when it comes to behaviour and conduct. I can't seem to figure out how to de-register from this site, so since you're looking to satsfy your compensatory urge to ban me could you please go ahead with that. I want nothing to do with this forum.
Thanks, it's been..... "real."
Thanks, it's been..... "real."
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willsfarm said:
Wow.
I re-read the thread. From what I read, I'm one of the few defending you.
You're welcome.
Roy Harding
Milnet.ca Staff
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