U.S. Military Deserters in Canada Megathread

[GK .Dundas]

What I find amusing is  that as far as I know the longest sentence to date has been one year.I suspect  that for a very large majority of these "martyrs to peace " this more about their comforts and sense of entitlement then it is about ethical convictions .

 

[Jarnhamar]

I just had an idea..


Lets pay him 10 Million dollars for the hardships he suffered.

 

[Redeye]

He didn't have those objections when he joined, they developed after (if I remember right) his first tour when he became involved with a Quaker group.  He applied for CO status and went through the process, but was deemed not to be a bona fide CO because he acknowledged that he'd pick up a weapon and fight to defend his friends in a desperate situation.  Again, I don't remember the wording of the question exactly from the original transcript of the first Board Review that ruled against him.

As to Kat's post - re: extradition - extradition only applies if requested by the other country.  The USA has not requested the extradition of Hinzman, and without such a request, so long as he isn't breaking Canadian law during his due process, he's got nothing to worry about with that.

If he wants to show he has some courage to stand for what he believes - if any of them do - they should go back and make their stand before American courts.

Wonderful.  I wonder WTF a person who has "strong objections to war" is doing in the military.  It's a volunteer force, for crying out loud.


Now, is this "Federal Court of Appeal" part of the supreme court?  Or is that it?  Open the gates, let the cowards in?

 

[Teflon]

re: extradition - extradition only applies if requested by the other country.  The USA has not requested the extradition of Hinzman, and without such a request, so long as he isn't breaking Canadian law during his due process, he's got nothing to worry about with that.

Unfortunately for Canada I don't think the U.S. is really wanting him back

 

[The Bread Guy]

Now, is this "Federal Court of Appeal" part of the supreme court?  Or is that it?  Open the gates, let the cowards in?

I think it can still go to The Supremes if desired, but not 100% sure.

If he wants to show he has some courage to stand for what he believes - if any of them do - they should go back and make their stand before American courts.

Zackly

 

[Redeye]

Yes - Federal Court decisions can be appealed to the SCC.

I think it can still go to The Supremes if desired, but not 100% sure.
Zackly

 

[The Bread Guy]

This from the Canadian Press....

The Conservative government has given immigration officers tough new marching orders for dealing with military deserters seeking refuge in Canada, painting them as criminals who may be inadmissible.

The Immigration Department is leaning on officers to give a more critical assessment in new cases and telling them to report more often about existing files.

The department recently issued a bulletin to field officers saying flight from military service in another country may make certain refugee claimants inadmissible.

The new directive points to existing provisions of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act — sections that bar refugees from Canada on the "grounds of serious criminality" — in order to make the case.

"Desertion is an offence in Canada under the National Defence Act," says the notice, issued July 22.

"The maximum punishment for desertion under section 88 of the (National Defence Act) is life imprisonment, if the person committed the offence on active service or under orders for active service. Consequently, persons who have deserted the military in their country of origin may be inadmissible to Canada." ....

.... and this from Postmedia News (used to be CanWest):

A Canadian war resisters support organization is calling a new rule that requires immigration officers to contact government officials each time a military deserter applies for refugee status in Canada "unnecessary and mean-spirited."

On July 22, the Citizenship and Immigration office published a bulletin that states "persons who have deserted the military in their country of origin may be inadmissible to Canada," and insists immigration officers notify Ottawa's case management branch of any new refugee claims or updates to the cases.

"They're calling these cases high-profile and contentious. They're saying (the soldiers) may be criminally inadmissible, creating this perception that they're criminals," said Michelle Robidoux, spokeswoman for the War Resisters Support Campaign ....

 

[George Wallace]

They're saying (the soldiers) may be criminally inadmissible, creating this perception that they're criminals," said Michelle Robidoux, spokeswoman for the War Resisters Support Campaign ....

Well.....Duh?

Where do these people get their educations?  They don't seem to know "right" from "wrong"; what responsibility is, nor what signing a contract (entering into military service) means legally.  Are they all a bunch of oversized three year olds having a tea party or what?  Frackin lunatics.

 

[stealthylizard]

By now it has been pretty much established that Canada is the place for Americans to go if they want to be a military deserter, and they will get full support.  Where do Canadians go to be a deserter, and I wonder how much support they would get?

 

[George Wallace]

By now it has been pretty much established that Canada is the place for Americans to go if they want to be a military deserter, and they will get full support.  Where do Canadians go to be a deserter, and I wonder how much support they would get?

Most cases I have heard about; Canada.  No one goes looking for them. 

 

[gcclarke]

Most cases I have heard about; Canada.  No one goes looking for them. 

Just be sure to leave your military ID behind when you do so.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Helloooooooooo?  What about deserters from the OTHER war we're in?  From QMI, shared in accordance with the "fair dealing" provisions, Section 29, of the Copyright Act.

American soldiers that flee to Canada rather than fight in Iraq should be welcomed with open arms say opposition MPs.

The Harper government recently sent out a directive to immigration officers across Canada informing them that people who desert their military posts in other countries and seek refugee status here may be inadmissible to Canada.

“The Iraq war deserters, just like the Vietnam draft dodgers should be able to stay in Canada,” said Liberal MP Gerard Kennedy.

Kennedy says the government should be allowing these former soldiers to stay on humanitarian and compassionate grounds.

The Liberal MP has tabled a private members bill that would allow military personnel to stay in Canada if they deserted “based on a moral, political or religious objection.”

“One just has to think back to the days of the Vietnam War and Canada had a very different policy of accepting and even welcoming conscientious objectors,” said New Democrat Libby Davies.

Alykhan Velshi, a spokesman for immigration minister Jason Kenney says the Liberal position is hypocritical. “Under the logic of this Liberal bill, Canadians who abandon their comrades in arms would continue to be treated like criminals,” said Velshi, “whereas Americans who do the same would be welcomed by Michael Ignatieff's Liberal Party as heroes.”

Interesting take on Twitter, from an analyst of things military in Australia:

Canadian gov cracks down on US military deserters: http://bit.ly/alt9jn Fleeing to a country whose soldiers are dying in Afghanistan? YDIW

(YDIW=you're doing it wrong)

 

[MARS]

From the Toronto Star, shared with the usual caveats...

Refugee board rejects U.S. Army deserter
Published On Thu Nov 04 2010EmailPrint

Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board has rejected granting refugee status to Joshua Key, 32, a deserter from the U.S. army who says he is haunted by atrocities he saw committed by American soldiers in Iraq.

“I find that the claimant is neither a . . . refugee nor a person in need of protection,” ruled Ken Atkinson of the board.

The negative ruling means the Canada Border Services Agency could move to deport Key.

However, he said in a telephone interview that he's hopeful the federal court of appeal will agree to hear his case, allowing him to stay in Canada.

He said that he still feels things will work out, although the negative decision surprised him.

“Of course, I was optimistic and had high hopes,” he said.

In reaching its decision, the refugee board noted that the U.S. is a democracy, with human rights protections.

Link

 

[HavokFour]

Shouldn't have signed up if you're not going to honor your contract.

 

[NovaScotiaNewfie]

Does anyone else find it ironic that if any members desert because they feel they dont' want to server in Afghasitan and get refugee status etc, they would be protected by those who live up to their contract in the Canadian Forces and be protected by those fighting in the same war they refuse to deploy too?

I have sent an email to the Immigration Minster with questions and my thoughts on this matter, if I get a reply (which I doubt unless it's "We appricate your concerns and will look at it or take it into consideration" type of automated resposne) is another matter. Should I get a reply I will post it.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Canada’s Immigration and Refugee Board has rejected granting refugee status to Joshua Key, 32, a deserter from the U.S. army who says he is haunted by atrocities he saw committed by American soldiers in Iraq.

“I find that the claimant is neither a . . . refugee nor a person in need of protection,” ruled Ken Atkinson of the board.

If I witnessed a bunch of dudes killing locals ,  cutting their fingers off  or commiting rape (just for example) I'd be pretty worried about my protection.

if he DID witness atrocites then I say give him protection so long as he testifies in court and starts naming names.

 

[brihard]

If I witnessed a bunch of dudes killing locals ,  cutting their fingers off  or commiting rape (just for example) I'd be pretty worried about my protection.

if he DID witness atrocites then I say give him protection so long as he testifies in court and starts naming names.

There's room for a fair middle ground of 'put up or shut up' on this one. If indeed he was witness to war crimes, I would consider it fair for the U.S. to grant him immunity on charges of desertion IF he were willing to actually testify fully about what he knows and saw, as part of establishing a precedent of safeguarding soldiers who do speak up about abuses.

If he's just talking bullshit, too bad for him. I reject any inherent claim to refugee status by virtue of deserting form a volunteer military in a nation with a sound rule of law.

 

[Jarnhamar]

There's room for a fair middle ground of 'put up or shut up' on this one. If indeed he was witness to war crimes, I would consider it fair for the U.S. to grant him immunity on charges of desertion IF he were willing to actually testify fully about what he knows and saw, as part of establishing a precedent of safeguarding soldiers who do speak up about abuses.

If he's just talking bullshit, too bad for him. I reject any inherent claim to refugee status by virtue of deserting form a volunteer military in a nation with a sound rule of law.

You just took what I said and made it sound smrt

I agree with the train of thought that they signed the contract so they should honour it.  That said I also believe the US pretty much bullshitted their way into sending troops into Iraq the second time so I'm a little less quick to condem these guys.

 

[Kat Stevens]

I'm not.  I didn't sign my contract with a clause that said I get to pick and choose my deployment schedule.  I'm fairly certain these deserters didn't, either.

 

[Jarnhamar]

a clause that said I get to pick and choose my deployment schedule.

It's called the reserves