U.S. Politics 2017 (split fm US Election: 2016)

[Kirkhill]

Lesson for judges.

Be careful you don't end up in the high street standing between two factions with 45s in their hands.

Something about "consent of the governed" comes to mind.

 

[FJAG]

Lesson for judges.

Be careful you don't end up in the high street standing between two factions with 45s in their hands.

Something about "consent of the governed" comes to mind.

The problem I see right now Chris, is the euphoria of the faction that has won the recent election and believes that they can now have everything their own way. "Consent by the governed" is not merely the consent of the majority but of all the people including the losing faction.

It is advisable to remember that the winning faction wasn't even the majority of all who voted but was that portion (based on electoral college votes) that provided a majority of those electoral votes.

The problem with democratic systems of government that have unrestricted powers is that it can lead to a condition of a "tyranny by the majority" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority which is why we have constitutions and a judiciary which are meant to keep the unbridled majority of the population (and their duly elected legislatures and executives) in check.

:cheers:

 

[cupper]

I just saw the movie Omen III. In the oval office there are gold curtains just like Trump has. Does anybody want to jump on that as a sign from above, or maybe below. Seems every little thing these days is enough is go off on a rant and a rave about Trump.

Obviously you did not watch SNL last night, or you would have seen defifitive proof that satan is running the White House.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/02/05/alec-baldwin-returns-as-snls-trump-where-an-evil-stephen-k-bannon-is-actually-president/?utm_term=.cb3e95141d87

 

[The Bread Guy]

Mr Trump cares far more for the lives of US Servicemembers, veterans, inner-city blacks, women, gays, and people in general than either his predecessor or his failed competitor did.

We'll see ...

Something about "consent of the governed" comes to mind.

That would at least be true in the case of elected judges, something we see in the U.S., indeed.

Interesting times we be in ...

 

[FJAG]

Obviously you did not watch SNL last night, or you would have seen defifitive proof that satan is running the White House.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/02/05/alec-baldwin-returns-as-snls-trump-where-an-evil-stephen-k-bannon-is-actually-president/?utm_term=.cb3e95141d87

It was an okay sketch but the Melissa McCarthy/Spicer sketch was brilliant.  ;D

http://army.ca/forums/index.php?action=post;quote=1475081;topic=125056.300

:cheers:

 

[mariomike]

It is advisable to remember that the winning faction wasn't even the majority of all who voted but was that portion (based on electoral college votes) that provided a majority of those electoral votes.

:goodpost:

 

[kkwd]

Obviously you did not watch SNL last night, or you would have seen defifitive proof that satan is running the White House.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/02/05/alec-baldwin-returns-as-snls-trump-where-an-evil-stephen-k-bannon-is-actually-president/?utm_term=.cb3e95141d87

I haven't seen that show in about 30 years. Is it worth taking up watching it again?
I was going to give you Milpoints for that post but it seems you have topped out on contributions.  ;D

 

[FJAG]

I haven't seen that show in about 30 years. Is it worth taking up watching it again?
I was going to give you Milpoints for that post but it seems you have topped out on contributions.  ;D

I watch it regularly and it's been better than it has been but not as good as it could be. They've got some very talented performers but sometimes the writing lets them down.

:cheers:

 

[Kat Stevens]

One trick pony. Alec Baldwin shows up, does his little Trump shtick, heavily biased crowd laughs uproariously, musical act, closing monologue, roll credits.  Hasn't been funny since Mike Myers left.

 

[Kirkhill]

The problem I see right now Chris, is the euphoria of the faction that has won the recent election and believes that they can now have everything their own way. "Consent by the governed" is not merely the consent of the majority but of all the people including the losing faction.

It is advisable to remember that the winning faction wasn't even the majority of all who voted but was that portion (based on electoral college votes) that provided a majority of those electoral votes.

The problem with democratic systems of government that have unrestricted powers is that it can lead to a condition of a "tyranny by the majority" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyranny_of_the_majority which is why we have constitutions and a judiciary which are meant to keep the unbridled majority of the population (and their duly elected legislatures and executives) in check.

:cheers:

With respect -

The problem of the tyranny of the majority is confounded when the wishes of the majority are denied for an extended period.  When the majority is told that they are wrong for too long eventually the governors run the risk of being ignored.  If they continue with tone deaf beration then they run the further risk of not being ignored.

 

[Kirkhill]

:goodpost:

It is advisable to remember that the United States of America is not a unitary state but a union of fifty states, each with their own rights and degrees of autonomy.

Kansas doesn't have to be organized like Manhattan.

 

[cavalryman]

The problem I see right now is the euphoria of the faction that has won the recent election and believes that they can now have everything their own way.

Which, of course is no different than 2008 and Barak Obama's ascendancy.  To quote the former president, elections have consequences.  If it's a problem now, it was a problem then, and one in 2000.  The problem is a sick political system that has been so extensively polarized, it's reached the extremes of disfunction.  Who to blame can be debated ad nauseam, but I've seen one side rioting and the other quietly going about their business.  Who one chooses to believe says a lot about one's character.

 

[dapaterson]

#SuperbowlLI

Because 28-3 is the hardest lead to defend in all of professional sports

 

[mariomike]

Chris, it is also advisable to remember we are in Radio Chatter. The  :goodpost: was for FJAG.

I know I've been gently poked for not having a sense of humour when it comes to some of the digs going on.  To pass along some sage advice, "we have to remember to check if we are in RADIO CHATTER before we want to "seriously" comment on a less than "serious" thread"

Even one of their senators described it as a "Gong show, with a nuclear button." 

So here, have a laugh,  :
https://thenib.com/we-remind-donald-trump-that-he-lost-the-popular-vote

I've seen one side rioting and the other quietly going about their business.

The other is in the White House. Why would they riot?

 

[Kirkhill]

Chris, it is also advisable to remember we are in Radio Chatter. The  :goodpost: was for FJAG.

I know.... 

 

[mariomike]

 

[Kirkhill]

[ :cheers:

 

[FJAG]

With respect -

The problem of the tyranny of the majority is confounded when the wishes of the majority are denied for an extended period.  When the majority is told that they are wrong for too long eventually the governors run the risk of being ignored.  If they continue with tone deaf beration then they run the further risk of not being ignored.

I agree in part with your observation and it's quite clear there is a large faction in the US that thinks that way. The problem is that we have two factions here who are each quite confident that the other one is the tone deaf party and that only they themselves have staked out the moral high-ground.

Where I disagree is that neither of these two factions are in the majority of the population because a large part of the population does not get involved in the elections. What we, in fact, have are minority groups that band together to raise enough votes to get someone elected. After an election we could argue forever (without anyone winning since no one trusts the polls anymore) about whether the elected official has the support of the majority of the people or just of the 'less than majority' faction that got him into power. Sadly, Nixon was right when he said that there is a "silent majority".

I also think it behoves us to remember that the "majority" have not been "told that they are wrong" for very long. Since WW2 the presidents were: Dem 8 yrs (Truman); Rep 8 yrs (Eisenhower); Dem 8 yrs (Kennedy, Johnson); Rep 8 yrs (Nixon, Ford); Dem 4 yrs (Carter); Rep 12 yrs (Reagan, Bush 1); Dem 8 yrs (Clinton); Rep 8 yrs (Bush 2); Dem 8 yrs (Obama).

It seems that every eight years or so the "majority" seems to flip so I guess they can only stomach one particular philosophy for eight years before they demand that the swamp be drained. It will be interesting to see if Trump will become the "Carter of the Republican Party" and be ousted after 4 years. ;D

:cheers:

 

[Kirkhill]

I agree in part with your observation and it's quite clear there is a large faction in the US that thinks that way. The problem is that we have two factions here who are each quite confident that the other one is the tone deaf party and that only they themselves have staked out the moral high-ground.

Where I disagree is that neither of these two factions are in the majority of the population because a large part of the population does not get involved in the elections. What we, in fact, have are minority groups that band together to raise enough votes to get someone elected. After an election we could argue forever (without anyone winning since no one trusts the polls anymore) about whether the elected official has the support of the majority of the people or just of the 'less than majority' faction that got him into power. Sadly, Nixon was right when he said that there is a "silent majority".

I also think it behoves us to remember that the "majority" have not been "told that they are wrong" for very long. Since WW2 the presidents were: Dem 8 yrs (Truman); Rep 8 yrs (Eisenhower); Dem 8 yrs (Kennedy, Johnson); Rep 8 yrs (Nixon, Ford); Dem 4 yrs (Carter); Rep 12 yrs (Reagan, Bush 1); Dem 8 yrs (Clinton); Rep 8 yrs (Bush 2); Dem 8 yrs (Obama).

It seems that every eight years or so the "majority" seems to flip so I guess they can only stomach one particular philosophy for eight years before they demand that the swamp be drained. It will be interesting to see if Trump will become the "Carter of the Republican Party" and be ousted after 4 years. ;D

:cheers:

Sadly, the problem is not with the name of the party sitting in the Whitehouse.  The problem lies with 94% of Washington voting for one party.  The problem lies with civil servants actively campaigning against the government of the day and then cheering the replacement to the rafters.  The problem lies with civil servants actively working against the wishes of the populace as voiced in a referendum.  The problem lies with civil servants ignoring the wishes of their populations as expressed in referenda and imposing new constitutions on them.  The problem lies with the transfer of power from laws enacted by sovereign elected parliaments to regulatory bodies staffed by careerists protected from democratic supervision.

And that, I am afraid, leads us to the courts that interpret those regulations.

Your good health, Sir. 

:cheers:

 

[FJAG]

Sadly, the problem is not with the name of the party sitting in the Whitehouse.  The problem lies with 94% of Washington voting for one party.  The problem lies with civil servants actively campaigning against the government of the day and then cheering the replacement to the rafters.  The problem lies with civil servants actively working against the wishes of the populace as voiced in a referendum.  The problem lies with civil servants ignoring the wishes of their populations as expressed in referenda and imposing new constitutions on them.  The problem lies with the transfer of power from laws enacted by sovereign elected parliaments to regulatory bodies staffed by careerists protected from democratic supervision.

And that, I am afraid, leads us to the courts that interpret those regulations.

Your good health, Sir. 

:cheers:

I don't quite buy that bit about the DC vote. Dc is in a strange situation in that there are more jobs there (728k of which 213k are Federal govt) then residents(618k+ of which 307k are employed). (I'm using 2011 statistics here and acknowledge the the numbers have changed a bit but not significantly https://www.doleta.gov/performance/results/AnnualReports/2011_economic_reports/dc_economic_report_py2011.pdf)

I've looked very hard to find an exact number for how many DC residents (and thereby voters) work for the Fed Govt but have been unable to find a statistic. By parsing various articles it seems to me to be less than 20% of those living in DC, and who are employed, work for the Feds. Up until very recently the majority of the population of DC was black (50.7% as at 2011) and there is still a significant percentage.

Considering that the residential parts of DC are generally much less affluent then those of its surrounding suburbs in Virginia and Maryland I think one can safely say that the vast majority of the civil servants that work for the Feds in DC and who have a high enough position in government where they might actually be able to interfere with initiatives live and vote outside of the DC area.

There is no doubt that the electorate in DC has a higher percentage of liberals than elsewhere but I tend to believe that DC's voting Democrat has much more to do with it's large percentage of black voters and the fact that it is a pure urban area (with no rural component) both of which lean Democrat.

I too have watched "Yes, Minister" and have seen how lethargic the civil service can be when it wants to be but in the end the various departments of government are run by their elected (or politically appointed) secretaries/ministers using laws enacted by an elected legislature and for the most part they do as they are told. (I really wish the civil service in Ontario would undermine a lot of the crap that comes out of the Liberals)

:cheers: