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Voluntary Occupational Transfer ( VOT )

  • Thread starter Thread starter wackymax
  • Start date Start date
Not to mention you keep getting a paycheck while the OT is in progress and if you aren't accepted to your new trade, you still have a job career.  VR and you have to find a civie job to support yourself while trying to get back in and if your new trade doesn't accept you, you still have to find a civie job and are worse off than you are now.
 
We had a young guy who recently VR'ed and will be joining back up the same day he is released,at a differnt trade.
I always thought you had to wait 6 months, but I guess they have changed that policy?
 
How about VR to the reserves. No need for prior verification of service, latest canforgen states that CTs get priority over civies coming off the street., don't need to turn in all your kit. Better than a full VR if you plan on getting back in.
 
Hey guys.  Just a quick question here.  For reasons that are my own I am considering putting in an OT memo to go from armoured to infantry.  My question is simple.....I've been in the army for 2 years now, spending a year of that at regiment.  I've heard you need three years in to OT to some trades.  Was just wondering if an OT from armoured to infantry requires this three year period or would I meet the requirements to attempt to OT?

Thanks
 
Tried reading the recent ones and really didn't have my question answered.  None of them seem to cover a combat arms - combat arms remuster......well no recent ones anyways
 
A remuster is a remuster is a remuster.........

There is no "combat arms to combat arms" remuster program.

There is VOTP, LOTP and COTP

With 2 years in, only VOTP  may apply to you.
 
This is where your reading/research should start.  Basically you are looking for a VOT under the terms of LOTP.  *Unfortunately you don't meet the requirements for time-in, as you will see. *

CFAO 11-12 OCCUPATION TRANSFER OF NON-COMMISSIONED MEMBERS - REGULAR FORCE

I can tell you this;  According to the ISS (In Service Selection) Occupation Status, Infantry is a "Green" Trade ( as far as ISS is concerned, it is actually above PML) and Armour is a Red trade for the 08/09 FY.  That might make it hard(er) to OT.  IAW with the part of CFAO 11-12 below, you would have to apply for an OT from Crmn to Infmn under AVOTP, Para 5(a), or LOTP, Para 5(c) both of which are under the Voluntary "type".  Para's 15 and 16 apply to VOTs as well, which also refer to Annex C (applic below, bolded). 

*However,  with only 2 years in, you are looking at doing another year as Crmn before you can VOT under the LOTP*.  Remember, you need to go thru your CoC or follow what ever unit SOPs that apply.  The last thing you want to do is piss them off and not have their support when you are able to apply.  Part 5 of your actual VOT Application is for the CO to write/sign (probably be done initially by your Tp Ldr) and your immediate superior is also required to submit an assessment on you. 


TYPES OF OCCUPATION TRANSFERS

3.     OTs are categorized as:  Compulsory, Voluntary, MOC Reassignments and Career Progression Occupation Transfers.

4.     Compulsory.  This category refers to cases where members must leave their current MOC because of:
     a.   deletion of a MOC;
     b.   changes in the establishment requirements of the Canadian Forces (CF);
     c.   Career Medical Review Board (CMRB) decisions in accordance with 34-26;
     d.   Career Review Board (CRB) decisions in accordance with 49-4; or
     e.   other reasons as determined by NDHQ/DGPCOR (Director General Personnel Careers Other Ranks).

5.     Voluntary.  This category refers to OT applied for by members under the:
     a.   Annual Voluntary Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex A);
     b.   Continuing Occupation Transfer Program (see Annex B); or
     c.   Land Occupation Transfer Program (LOTP) described at Annex C.

6.     MOC Reassignment.  This category refers to OT of Privates Basic (Pte(B)) who have not yet attained QL3.

7.     Career Progression Occupation Transfers.  This category refers to OTs which are inherent in the career progression of certain MOCs, which are detailed in A-PM-245-001/FP-001, Chapter 7, Annex L.  These OTs are not dealt with in this order.


VOLUNTARY OT -GENERAL

15.    Members applying for transfer under any of the voluntary OT programs must meet the following prerequisites:
     a.   minimum time prerequisites applicable to the OT program being considered, excluding LWOP (Leave Without Pay) granted on enrolment;
     b.   MOC selection standards, detailed in the Canadian Forces Manual of NCM Occupation Structure (A-PD-123);
     c.   language aptitude and proficiency standards;
     d.   MOC medical standards specified in A-MD-154-000/FP-000;
     e.   QL 4 qualification.
     f.   Only Ptes and Cpls and those MCpls and above who are prepared to relinquish their appointment or rank may apply for voluntary OT.


16.    Members eligible for OT under the Land Occupation Transfer Program (LOTP) detailed at Annex C are also eligible to apply for OT under the Continuing Occupation Transfer Program detailed at Annex B.  Members who have transferred to the Regular Force direct from the Youth Training Employment Program (YTEP) are entitled to count YTEP service towards the minimum time prerequisites as detailed in Annex A, B, or C.


ANNEX C -- LAND OCCUPATION TRANSFER PROGRAM (LOTP)

GENERAL

1.     Under this program, applications may be made by members of MOC CRMN 011, ARTYMN FD 021, ARTYMN AD 022, INFMN 031, FD ENGR 041, and FEE OP 042 for OT into any MOC that forecasts basic MOC training within two years of the date of application. Eligible members may apply for OT for up to two MOCs using the form in Annex D. A member may apply only once per calendar year.

QUALIFYING TIME

2.     In addition to meeting the prerequisites contained in paragraph 15 of this order, applicants for OT under this program must have more than three but less than six years of continuous service on the date of application.

3.     Members who re-enrol must have three years, but not more than six years of combined Regular Force service and meet the prerequisites outlined in paragraphs 15 and 16 of this order. In addition, they must have served a minimum of 12 months must be completed in the current engagement.

*editted for clarity*



 
Eye In The Sky said:
This is where your reading/research should start.  Basically you are looking for a VOT under the terms of LOTP. 

He cannot apply for LOTP.

LOTP is for members who have between 3 and 6 years of service. He indicated that he only had 2 at this time.
 
CDN Aviator said:
He cannot apply for LOTP.

LOTP is for members who have between 3 and 6 years of service. He indicated that he only had 2 at this time.

Correct, which he will see when he reads my post, specifically the info in Annex C, Para 2.   I forgot to mention at that point he was SOL.  My bad, post now editted to make that point clear at the beginning.
 
Glad to see they updated those docs, 041/042 hasen't existed in awhile.
 
NFLD Sapper said:
Glad to see they updated those docs, 041/042 hasen't existed in awhile.

Its from a CFAO therefore it will not be updated until it is replaced by a DAOD.
 
NFLD Sapper said:
Glad to see they updated those docs, 041/042 hasen't existed in awhile.

Yes, and having dealt with the issues in this specific CFAO WRT my COTP application, I was assured by the FPSO that both DMCARM and DGPR are aware of the wording, as well as the only amendment for CFAO 11-12 being in ADM (HR-MIL) Instr 05/05 Annex G Appendix 1.  The REAL problem is unit CoCs and CM shops not understanding or following the CFAO and other instructions, or confusing the requirements for COTP with the ones for CEOTP, etc.  Yes the CFAO is out of date and yes it still is the governing document for NCM Remusters for Reg Force at this time.  So...SNAFU.
 
I would HIGHLY suggest making sure you absolutely want to transfer to 031 before going ahead and taking that leap. Take some time, cool down and research your options. Talk to some Royals and ask how they like their trade.

 
 
I am considering a OT from Stoker to Veh Tech.

I have a few questions.

1) What are the working hours like?

2) what are the working conditions -- where repairs are done, availability of tools and parts...

3) What is the comrade like within the trade?

Anything else you can tell me, that would be great.

I don't mind moving around, and I don't mind going overseas.

Thanks
 
Stoker,

In order:

1) What are the working hours like?

Depends, In garrison, working hours depend on the unit, usually 0730 till 1600 or so. Figure for PT anywhere from 3 to 5 days a week for the first 2 hours of the day. In the field, on a busy EX, can be anytime/all the time. On a slow EX.....it can be verrrry long.......

2) what are the working conditions -- where repairs are done, availability of tools and parts...
Location of repairs vary also. Some are done in situ (on site), some are dragged back to the shop. Some are done on the side of the road, in the middle Wainwright, in a nice warm garage with hydraulic lifts and air tools, or in the driving snow and wind in Suffield.
Tool wise, most units have fairly well equiped tool boxes, with Tool Cribs that hold other specialty or bulky tools. Chances are they will not all by Snap-On (over priced crap anyway, IMHO), but if they break, you can usually get a replacement (depends on the unit budget).
Parts....well, parts can be ...a challenge. The friendly Sup Techs in SPSS do what they can, but sometimes, vehicles can wait for a fair bit for a widget to come from Italy, Germany or Montreal or some such silly thing.

3) What is the comrade like within the trade?
I was a member of the EME Branch for over 13 years. Met a lot of great people, had more than a few excellent EME birthdays and Bonspiels. That being said...we do seem to have a tendancy (like many other trades) in years past to be a bit..unfeeling as an entity. Filling a position was exactly that, a position, not so much worrying about "career progression." I think that comes from being so short on people in so many trades all at once, with every unit screaming for more support.

I do not know what the current status for manning levels is, but if I was a betting man, I'd say that the majority of postings after QL3 will still be Edmonton, Pet, Valcartier and Gagetown.

Wook
Arte et Marte
 
A trip down to the the EME workshop at your LOC now would be time well spent. You'd get a 1st hand response to questions you didn't even know you had. There were lots of times in the shops we had guys comming in that were thinking of remustering. It wasn't a bother. While you're there take a look at the Mat Tech trade! (shameless plug  :)
 
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