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Who do you like for Liberal leader?

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This kind of ties in with the bloggospheric buzz that the Liberals are not signing up new members, either in spite of or because of the leadership convention. Considering the calibre of candidates being offered, I wouldn't be signing up either.......

http://www.politicalstaples.com/2006/07/05/on_giving.html

On giving
I am not sure if there is even a story here http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060705.wxelections05/BNStory/National/home. Bob Rae was not a Liberal until recently. Same for Michael Ignatieff. Gerrard Kennedy was a provincial Liberal. Hmmm, ok there is a story here but not about fundraising, it is about roots and where one belongs. Anyways, this is what jumped out at me.


...The Conservative Party came out on top of the money game last year, receiving $17.8-million from 107,000 donors. The Conservatives amassed more money than the combined total of the other two main national parties. The Liberal Party received $8.3-million from 24,000 donors, while the NDP received $5.1-million from 28,000 donors.

Can I get a Hello! The dollar amounts are significant but the absolute number of donors is even more telling. The CPC has 4+ times as many donors as the Liberals and the NDP has more broad-based support than the Liberals as well. This has got to be concerning at Liberal head office.
 
I don't really care, as long as the new Liberal leader is is cut from the same cloth as the champions of the past.
He must be French (from Quebec)  and show the utmost dedication to there uniqueness.  He must continue there great compassion to those oppressed by the majority.  And treat everyone as fair and equal realizing some are more equal than others. :salute: :cdn:
 
Couch, Im with you,
Adam are you serious........And I thought I was the minority being white male english speaking and middle aged.

And on this thread Ive been watching it for some time and laughing my $%#^off. "Who do you like for Liberal leader"...who cares, lets just finish the job and take the rest of the garbage out to the curb next election.  Ya YA Im a conservative...thank god some of us are or we would be in serious crap.
 
Given the bryzantine nature of Liberal Party rules, this could be the real race:

http://dissonanceanddisrespect.blogspot.com/2006/07/sale-of-century.html

Sale Of The Century

Recent reports that Joe Volpe has sold the most new memberships in the Liberal leadership race have so embarrassed the party that they're trying to spin Gerard Kennedy as the actual front-runner, based on a few interviews with insiders and a bit of guesswork.

But if Kennedy is really leading the membership sales race, the real story would be Michael Ignatieff's relatively weak showing. Ignatieff may the darling of the caucus, but he is a philosopher king, above such petty things as retail politics.

Imagine a race between Gerard Kennedy and Joe Volpe, then.

And shudder.
 
I don't really care, as long as the new Liberal leader is is cut from the same cloth as the champions of the past.
He must be French (from Quebec)  and show the utmost dedication to there uniqueness.  He must continue there great compassion to those oppressed by the majority.  And treat everyone as fair and equal realizing some are more equal than others. 

The only people with any skills to be leader of this country are from Quebec then ::)

Personally, not really interested, especially when Dion wants to make an "affirmative action" parliment apparently. Personally, maybe the Liberals should stop making rediculous statements in order for the majority to take them seriously.
 
It doesn't really matter who get selected for the leader of the Liberal party( or the NDP for that matter).....I have never voted for them and I never will. Liberalism represents everything that is wrong with post-911 Canada. It is time to take a stand and dig in.

I like working for Harper.
 
Like it or not, this is very important for several reasons:

1. The universe of Conservative party voters is not very large. Prime Minister Harper may never get a majority government since it is difficult to break the lock on the urban riding's with their sheer number of non Conservative voters.

2. The universe of Liberal/NDP/Green voters is considerably larger, so the Liberals have the potential for anything from a minority to a majority government, with all that implies.

3. Regardless of who is in power, ideas evolve through a dynamic process. A moribund Liberal party will not offer any real challenges to the Conservatives, hence their own ideas will become weakened. Do we want a lazy or corrupt Conservative party to develop?

Lets keep an eye on things so we don't get surprised later on.

 
Without hijacking the thread...There has been a fairly significant shift in the views of Canadians in the past few years. A fact that was lost on the left - even in urban areas.

Realistically in Canada, the voter that make the decision on minority or majority are the 10-15% that are not aligned with any one party. These voters flipflop between parties based on their belief at the time of the election (which is their right paid for by veterans). This, historically, is reason for the campaign to sway that 10-15%. These people will have a better veiw of the Conservative Party in the next election, due to their performance as the ruling party. Also, the fear-mongering about how ' the Conservatives will destroy the country' will be a non-issue as the Conferderations seems to be chugging along.

Canada has an extremely low voter turnout. A greater percentage of Iraqis voted in their last election (under the threat of IEDs, insurgent attacks and sectarian viloence) than Canadians did in our last election. A good plan for every voting Canadian would be to take a non-voting Canadian to the polls and encourage them to take part in the election.




 
starlight_cdn said:
Without hijacking the thread...
Canada has an extremely low voter turnout. A greater percentage of Iraqis voted in their last election (under the threat of IEDs, insurgent attacks and sectarian viloence) than Canadians did in our last election. A good plan for every voting Canadian would be to take a non-voting Canadian to the polls and encourage them to take part in the election.

Why don't we try what Australia (?) does? If you don't vote, you are fined on your taxes. (I think that was how it worked, sounded pretty good to me)  :)
 
I don't like that idea because it is "conscription" rather than "cooperation". We are rightly sceptical of the motivations and reliability of conscripted soldiers (whenever that idea is raised), so many of the same objections apply to conscripting voters. If no party can inspire a voter, then the voter should have the right to refuse to vote.

While I realise many people don't vote because they are lazy SOB's, a great many more decline because they feel disconnected from the entire political process. Given that, any party which can find a way to reconnect the voters will have a vast advantage over the others.
 
a_majoor said:
While I realise many people don't vote because they are lazy SOB's, a great many more decline because they feel disconnected from the entire political process. Given that, any party which can find a way to reconnect the voters will have a vast advantage over the others.

That is what I am doing as a party man. Problem is Canadians are not politically savvy....the education takes a long time.
 
a_majoor said:
I don't like that idea because it is "conscription" rather than "cooperation". We are rightly sceptical of the motivations and reliability of conscripted soldiers (whenever that idea is raised), so many of the same objections apply to conscripting voters. If no party can inspire a voter, then the voter should have the right to refuse to vote.

By the same token the voter must take some form of responsibility for their actions or inactions. Nobody is telling them "how" to vote, simply that they must, even if it is to spoil a ballot.
 
Discussion on the right NOT to vote is here: http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/38841.0.html
 
http://www.bluebloggingsoapbox.com/index.php?option=com_jd-wp&Itemid=31&p=1345

‘‘Is there anybody else?'’ he asked rhetorically. ‘’Boy, doesn’t that say something about what’s wrong with this country?'’
Liberal Party of Canada (Alberta) President Adam Campbell commenting on the current Liberal Party Leadership race.
(Note: in true Liberal fashion, the fact that they can’t muster some Trudeau-like saviour candidate equals ‘’what’s wrong with this country'’)

Read the rest here:

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1154209809896&call_pageid=968332188774&col=968350116467



 
Here is an interesting column by John Ibbitson from yesterday’s Globe and Mail; it is reproduced here under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060824.wxibbitson24/BNStory/National/home
Spring election would pose formidable task for new leader

JOHN IBBITSON

From Thursday's Globe and Mail

VANCOUVER — At this week's caucus retreat, whenever two or three Liberals gather together to discuss the leadership race, perhaps over a glass of wine, one question dominates: Who should lead us, if this country is forced into a federal election next spring?

Three general elections in less than three years would signal a dangerous level of instability in Canadian politics, undermining confidence in this country's ability to manage its affairs.

But there may be no escape. The NDP will certainly oppose the next budget, and the Liberals will be hard-pressed to support it since it will axe funding for their national child-care program. (The last budget announced the end of that program, but left funding in place for this fiscal year to give the provinces time to prepare.) And if the budget includes the Conservatives' plan to end the alleged fiscal imbalance between the federal and provincial governments, the Bloc Québécois will be compelled to condemn those measures as inadequate, or else surrender the very reason for that party's existence.

With no obvious way out, the budget could be doomed to defeat in advance, requiring a spring election, with enormous consequences for the Liberal Party leadership race.

Any leader will face a formidable challenge readying the party for a campaign mere months after winning the title. The Liberal Party of Canada has $600,000 in the bank and a sound line of credit. But the leader will have little time to unite the caucus, craft a platform and prepare an election strategy.

Michael Ignatieff, though the front-runner in this campaign, has been in politics for less than a year and has never led anything larger than a seminar. Fighting a general election is a lousy way to learn on the job.

Gerard Kennedy and Stéphane Dion, two other serious contenders, also lack leadership experience, although they, at least, have served as high-profile cabinet ministers. Bob Rae, whatever his alleged shortcomings, is the only candidate with experience in leading a political party in an election campaign.

Yet Mr. Rae may be one of the candidates the Tories would most like to take on in an election, thanks to his unpopularity as Ontario premier in the 1990s.

Some Liberals believe Mr. Ignatieff's campaign has so much support that victory at the December convention is virtually assured. This is a strange assumption.

The Liberal Party always shifts to the left during a leadership campaign, thanks in part to the delegate-selection process. Of the 14 delegates that each riding will send to the convention, half must be women, four must be youth, and two must be seniors. Women, youth and seniors generally sit on the left of the political spectrum because they have needs that government can fulfill.

Mr. Ignatieff, however, is perceived (rightly or wrongly) as the candidate farthest to the right, which could foment an anyone-but-Iggy movement on the convention floor.

Finally, some Liberal MPs wonder whether Mr. Ignatieff would be the best candidate if the election hinges on Conservative approaches to Afghanistan, the Middle East, and the Kyoto Protocol since he is perceived as closer to the Tories on all three issues.

Which brings the talk in the bar back to the timing of the election, and the question of which horse would be best to send into that race.

A spring vote isn't inevitable. Mr. Harper may do everything he can to stay in power until after the Quebec election, to see how his ally, Jean Charest, fares. It will be difficult to hold a federal election in 2007, with both Ontario and Quebec expected to hold votes of their own, which would vacuum up fundraising dollars and deplete the stock of available party workers.

On the other hand, fighting a federal election in Quebec at the same time that a provincial election is under way might rob the Bloc Québécois of logistical support from the Parti Québécois. What if Mr. Harper and Mr. Charest go in tandem next spring?

Waiter, another drink please.

jibbitson@globeandmail.com

I’ll take his word for the idea that women, ‘Young Liberals’ and seniors are more likely to vote ‘left’ but I am certain that there will be lots and lots of Liberal traditionalists at the convention reminding all delegates that the raison d’être of the Liberal Party of Canada is to secure and then hold onto power – for the benefit of the Liberal Party of Canada and its constituents.  Some (many?) delegates will be strong-armed into voting for the machine’s preferred candidate

It is not clear, to me, anyway, just who is running the machine.  It appears that many (just some?) of the Chrétienistas are supporting Bob Rae; is Ignatieff the preferred candidate of the Martinis or is that Scott Brison?

It also appears that the NDP are going to be squeezed by both the Liberals and the Greens.  Maybe the NDP can squeeze back, if the Liberals do, indeed, select a ‘left Lib’ leader, saying: look here, folks if you want left then go for the real thing, not some Liberal fakery.

Somehow I cannot get over the factI believe it is a fact – that the Liberals are the BIG party: the party of big business, big labour, big cities and big banks.  I’m not sure how any ‘real’ loony leftie could be accepted as leader by the Party’s paymasters.

 
Edward, look at the Democratic Party in the United States. Like the Liberals in Canada, they are dependent on a very small number of "big" contributors, and certainly the upper echelons of the Democrats in no way resemble the "little guy" they pretend to represent. Since the party is sitting on such a narrow base, it seems relatively easy for the "moonbat left" to have muscled themselves into leadership positions, taking the Democratic party farther to the left and alienating much of the former membership.

I would guess the Liberals are having a similar problem, with the Martinites and Creitienistas struggling for control others in the party are trying to adopt more leftist postures to appeal to NDP and Green voters, while New Democrats and Greens, attracted to the potential availability of money and power move into the Liberal ranks.

My long term prediction; the disintegration of the Liberal party, with constituent elements moving to the true "Left" parties like the Greens and NDP, and a core or rump (depending on how messy the break up is) forming the basis for a new Centrist party. A few elections will show the shape of the new landscape
 
Interesting

http://phantomobserver.com/blog/?p=293

A Party Built To Survive

The Liberals have finally released their Red Ribbon Report on party renewal (available in PDF format), and at 30 pages it certainly reads a lot less volatilely than Buzz Hargrove’s screed.

Naturally they’re a little optimistic about using “A Party Built to Win” as part of their title, but let’s have a scroll through and see how serious they are about really renewing the party.

The report does begin with an honest assessment of the other major political parties:

We are facing, for the first time since 1984, a united right-of-center foe. The Conservatives used the opportunity of their merger to significantly streamline their organization and reduce the onerous structures that had built up over the years (Importantly, they were also able to adopt a new Constitution at the exact time of – and therefore consistent with - Bill C-24.) On our left, the New Democrats … have made great strides in becoming a modern political fighting force. The Bloc Québécois has been sustained by the onset of public funding and the unfortunate effects of the sponsorship issue. The Green Party has increased its vote in each of the last three elections. (page 9)

This is important because an honest evaluation of your opponent’s strengths is far more beneficial in the long run than a harangue of insults and fear-mongering. It’s interesting to note the inclusion of the Greens as serious opponents, a tacit acknowledgement that the Left can indeed be a more fragmented vote than in previous elections.

The Harper Government’s Bill C-2, which proposes to ban outright all corporate, union and organization donations, and will impose a new annual contribution limit of $1,000 for individuals (to each of national parties, Electoral District Associations (EDAs), and leadership candidates), means we must adapt ever more quickly.

The Conservatives claim that this is being done for reasons of “accountability”. However, Liberals should be under no illusion that this Bill C-2 is anything but a blatant attack aimed squarely at our Party’s political jugular. We can, and must, respond. (page 10)


It is perhaps to the report’s credit that it doesn’t talk about mounting opposition to Bill C-2. The writers obviously recognize a vote-losing strategy when they see one.

There’s also a passage that suggests that the Liberals might not be all that interested in making friends with their obvious American counterpart:

Through the eighties and nineties, the Democrats went from a Party that dominated both houses of Congress and competed to win in every local, state and national election to one that lost the vast majority of State Houses, Governorships, the Senate, the House of Representatives and (with the exception of the remarkable Bill Clinton) every single Presidential election. Obvious to even casual observers of American politics was the Democrats’ loss of unity of purpose.

Liberals must avoid the wrong turns made by the Democratic Party. We cannot become hostages to an unwieldy structure, buried in rules and procedures. We must preserve our own unity of purpose. We must always seek to look forward, and challenge the status quo. (page 12)

I wonder if the U.S. Democrats will be paying attention?

The actual recommendations begin on page 15, and can be summed up as follows:

Streamline the rules for membership, and make membership a national process. The report does concede that local membership rules have been designed in the past to block certain “cliques” and factions from taking over a local association. So, instead of keeping party membership local, make it national with a common set of rules and qualifications, and keep things simple.
Mind you, the local associations may not like the idea of their power of membership screening being taken away from them, but keeping things simple is always a good idea.

Change the definition of Provincial-Territorial Associations (PTAs). The Report wants to keep local associations around, but change the rules of what they can and cannot do.
This type of thing is going to involve some serious negotiations, assuming that PTAs are all going to be subject to the same rules. It’s one of those things that probably will take more than a year to work out.

Clear the bureaucracy at the national level. Too many committees, says the Report. Chop ‘em down to three: Policy, Financing and Election Readiness.
Anyone familiar with the study of bureaucracy will be sorely tempted to cynically giggle at this one, particularly when this caveat is attached:

Of course, the principles of equality of men and women, and of the English and French languages, must be maintained. Moreover, increased efforts must be made to ensure representation of youth and visible minorities in Party deliberative bodies.

In other words, expect these new super-committees to be super-big. Which doesn’t exactly solve the unwieldiness problem, especially when you add the complication of:

Establish a Council of Presidents. This body would consist of the presidents of the EDAs and National Executive members. I’m not entirely certain that a body of 300-plus members would make governance all that much easier, because each of those 300-plus people is going to need some support staff for their annual get-togethers. Then again, I’m not that big a student of bureaucracy.
Establish a Permanent Standing Committee on Policy Development. Here I’ll congratulate the report authors for addressing a definite deficiency of the Liberals. As we’ve just seen with the Middle East situation, lack of a definitive policy can lead to some serious miscues and scrambles.

While it’s tempting to just stick with the executive summary, I suggest that each Blogging Tory download this report and read it in full, then keep an eye on the leadership candidates and see what they say about this report. The ones who try to dismiss or otherwise belittle it are the ones Stephen Harper can beat.

 
starlight_cdn said:
Canada has an extremely low voter turnout. A greater percentage of Iraqis voted in their last election (under the threat of IEDs, insurgent attacks and sectarian viloence) than Canadians did in our last election..

Try not voting back in Australia, and you'll get a fine. Here its compulsary to vote, and elections are always held on a Saturday. This ensures that pretty much everyone of voting age, does go to vote. I see nothing wrong with that.

Wes 
 
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