2022 CPC Leadership Discussion: Et tu Redeux

[ArmyRick]

And Jennie Byrne is a lot more than PP's Katie Telford

Elaborate please. Tell us how she is.

it's a big tell re: how the "tribe" deals with those no longer part of the inner circle.

There are many who felt O'Toole totally blew what could have been a Conservative win in 2021 (even if only a minority government). As far as crapping on DEI and tampons in men's washrooms? Hell that needs to be called out for what it is.

I say this as a person who voted for O'Toole in the CPC leadership bid after Scheer stood down.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... Jennie Byrne is a lot more than PP's Katie Telford

I'd say yes and no, adding my characterization may be less than precise.

PP has a Chief of Staff, Ian Todd, so he would be Telford's specific "mirror" staffer. Byrne may just be an "advisor" in title, but observers have called her PP's chief strategist/"right hand", so she's close to, but maybe not exactly like Telford. Might be closer to Butts when he would social media spar for his boss back in the day.

I meant the comparison to show how much weight her opinion carries more than org chart parallels.

 

[Remius]

Elaborate please. Tell us how she is.


There are many who felt O'Toole totally blew what could have been a Conservative win in 2021 (even if only a minority government). As far as crapping on DEI and tampons in men's washrooms? Hell that needs to be called out for what it is.

Sure. But the conservatives are trying to run a disciplined campaign that seems focused on the economy. Why even bring it up?

And why crap on what was a collegial nod to Anand?

Seems like a dumb move that wasn’t required.

 

[The Bread Guy]

... There are many who felt O'Toole totally blew what could have been a Conservative win in 2021 (even if only a minority government). As far as crapping on DEI and tampons in men's washrooms? Hell that needs to be called out for what it is ...

There are lots of ways to call out DND DEI/tampons in mens' rooms without publicly shitting on and rubbing the nose of a former party leader and cabinet minister in it just because he was being collegial to someone from the other team.

 

[suffolkowner]

Elaborate please. Tell us how she is.

I'd say yes and no, adding my characterization may be less than precise.

PP has a Chief of Staff, Ian Todd, so he would be Telford's specific "mirror" staffer. Byrne may just be an "advisor" in title, but observers have called her PP's chief strategist/"right hand", so she's close to, but maybe not exactly like Telford. Might be closer to Butts when he would social media spar for his boss back in the day.

I meant the comparison to show how much weight her opinion carries more than org chart parallels.

TBG has the half of it i think. They have a deep relationship

 

[ArmyRick]

Anita Anand was simply less destructive than the other Liberals.

 

[ArmyRick]

TBG has the half of it i think. They have a deep relationship

And? All PM have advisors and staff that help them work out the nuts and bolts of things. I don't doubt for a second that Telford and Butts helped catapult Trudeau to a majority. However, in the years since the 2019 minority win and most certainly since the 2021 minority repeat, I am suspecting (in other words a GUESS) that Telford's advice got real stale and outdated. It was rumoured she was one of the voices that edged him to stay on as PM since the Toronto by election loss last June. And again in the fall and at Xmas with Freeland's departure.

The onus is on the PM to select competent advisors and replace them when needed.

Now looking at PP. When he was just a critic at several committees before he became party leader, he had very well thought out and logical questions and statements. He was establishing himself as a political "deep thinker" many years ago, before he was surrounded by an army of staffers. No one ever accused Trudeau as being a "deep thinker"

 

[suffolkowner]

And? All PM have advisors and staff that help them work out the nuts and bolts of things. I don't doubt for a second that Telford and Butts helped catapult Trudeau to a majority. However, in the years since the 2019 minority win and most certainly since the 2021 minority repeat, I am suspecting (in other words a GUESS) that Telford's advice got real stale and outdated. It was rumoured she was one of the voices that edged him to stay on as PM since the Toronto by election loss last June. And again in the fall and at Xmas with Freeland's departure.

The onus is on the PM to select competent advisors and replace them when needed.

Now looking at PP. When he was just a critic at several committees before he became party leader, he had very well thought out and logical questions and statements. He was establishing himself as a political "deep thinker" many years ago, before he was surrounded by an army of staffers. No one ever accused Trudeau as being a "deep thinker"

and i guess were judging people by those they keep close? Kinda the opposite with Trudeau where Butts and Telford are judged by their association with him maybe

 

[Halifax Tar]

Elaborate please. Tell us how she is.


There are many who felt O'Toole totally blew what could have been a Conservative win in 2021 (even if only a minority government). As far as crapping on DEI and tampons in men's washrooms? Hell that needs to be called out for what it is.

I say this as a person who voted for O'Toole in the CPC leadership bid after Scheer stood down.

@ArmyRick I wouldn't get to worked up about any of this. Let'er go bys.

 

[ArmyRick]

and i guess were judging people by those they keep close? Kinda the opposite with Trudeau where Butts and Telford are judged by their association with him maybe

Butts was Dalton McGuinty "brains" so to speak, look how well that worked out. Telford was also a provincial liberal staffer.

 

[suffolkowner]

Butts was Dalton McGuinty "brains" so to speak, look how well that worked out. Telford was also a provincial liberal staffer.

So? what does that have to do with bad mouthing a colleague?

 

[ArmyRick]

I am talking about staffers in general.

 

[suffolkowner]

I am talking about staffers in general.

what about them?

 

[dimsum]

Sure. But the conservatives are trying to run a disciplined campaign that seems focused on the economy. Why even bring it up?

And why crap on what was a collegial nod to Anand?

Seems like a dumb move that wasn’t required.

They know they’re going to win the election, barring some crazy world change. Folks who are that confident start slipping up.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

WOW ! What a ...( Acting on the advice of lawyers..) ...um interesting person.
One more reason for me not to vote Conservative. More and more it looks like I'm going to have to spoil my Ballot.
Decidedly unimpressed.

Stay home and don't vote. Save yourself the trip and holding up the line. It accomplishes the same thing. An anonymous part of a little number at the bottom of the tally sheet that no one looks at or cares about. It won't change anything. Perhaps you'll feel better though. Personally, I find it an exercise in futility. What does it accomplish?

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Butts was Dalton McGuinty "brains" so to speak, look how well that worked out. Telford was also a provincial liberal staffer.

Politics is a cut throat business. The closer to #1 you are the more heads you need to take and the more ruthless you have to be. Sometimes people lose sight of their role and start thinking it's about them.

I am not defending either of those BTW. I'd take poison first.

 

[ArmyRick]

On the jenni bryne non-issue issue, this is worth watching.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Anita Anand was simply less destructive than the other Liberals.

I think she shielded DND from a lot and wasn't toeing the party line; we got fucked when Blair came in, and I think probably would have happened earlier if she wasn't MND.

It seems to come from the PMO down, and probably due to the fact that Canadians don't actually care about defence so it's a safe department to cut and neglect.

 

[ArmyRick]

I think she shielded DND from a lot and wasn't toeing the party line; we got fucked when Blair came in, and I think probably would have happened earlier if she wasn't MND.

It seems to come from the PMO down, and probably due to the fact that Canadians don't actually care about defence so it's a safe department to cut and neglect.

Canadians suddenly care about defence now when Trump is trash talking. It pisses us vets off because we have been banging the warning drums for like 50 years for Canada to take Defence seriously. When a fisherman is at sea, I assume they always prepare for a possible storm even if all they see is calm seas and clear skies? Disaster strikes at a moments notice.

Are you still serving? Legit question, how did you guys see her as MND? I got out in 2018, so I am way out of touch now.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Canadians suddenly care about defence now when Trump is trash talking. It pisses us vets off because we have been banging the warning drums for like 50 years for Canada to take Defence seriously. When a fisherman is at sea, I assume they always prepare for a possible storm even if all they see is calm seas and clear skies? Disaster strikes at a moments notice.

Are you still serving? Legit question, how did you guys see her as MND? I got out in 2018, so I am way out of touch now.

Still serving, in general she had a good reputation from anyone I know that dealt with her directly, and it seemed like she was pushing internally for more for DND. I could be totally wrong, but I think the out of the blue warm thanks for her term from Erin O'Toole from the perspective of a veteran, despite being on opposite sides of the aisle supports that. The last MND that I think was similarly respected by the department was Peter MacKay, who made a bunch of political errors, but is a really personable guy who still advocates for DND (and the Navy in particular).

In general, she seems to be respected whichever department she goes to, so it's a shame to lose her as an MP as she isn't running again, but I think she is another capable MP that was disillusioned after being screwed over by Trudeau and the machinations of the PMO. I can't remember her name, but there was that MP from the Toronto area who similarly didn't run in the last election and think went back to being an MD after back room nonsense.

Blair, not so much, and was the face of saying that a $1B annual cut to NP wasn't going to impact operational capabilities. At a time when were asking for an increase to fix things, buy more spares and general increased costs for old stuff with less people, that was the kind of BS messaging that the seniors didn't even bother trying to sell internally. There are a lot of 9 figure arisings coming up, and I'm sure we could spend half a billion dollars on infrastructure just bringing old buildings up to basic code. Other fun things coming down the pipe like needing to change out firefighting foam across the CAF to new milspec stuff without PFAS which isn't funded either, and likely in the $300-400M range.