Afghanistan, is it worth it- Cheating Spouse Thread

[vonGarvin]

And of course getting some of the things I need to take ready to go, she (as a joke) bought a big jar of vaseline and slapped it down on the table "That should last you at least until SQ, right?"  :rofl:

:rofl:  That, a few packs of kleenex and a subscription to Club or Penthouse or some other "seedy" magazine  >

 

[TFLY]

:tsktsk: - LOL gross!  (I love it!)  HA!

 

[stealthylizard]

The Canadian term is " CONDUCT TO THE PREJUDICE OF GOOD ORDER AND DISCIPLINE " , section 129 of the NDA , QR&O Volume 2, article 130.60.

Yes, sorry, that is the proper Canadian term for it. 

 

[Thompson_JM]

And of course getting some of the things I need to take ready to go, she (as a joke) bought a big jar of vaseline and slapped it down on the table "That should last you at least until SQ, right?"  :rofl:

I'd recommend Baby oil... easier to use, plus you can make friends in the shacks giving foot rubs after those long PT sessions...  ;D

 

[Neolithium]

I'd recommend Baby oil... easier to use, plus you can make friends in the shacks giving foot rubs after those long PT sessions...  ;D

Or give everyone some for their feet and see who can run the longest distance before shattering their coccyx  :rofl:

 

[Altair]

I'm surprised that nobody has pointed this out yet.

"Fraternization" has only one definition under any CF regulations, and that is the definition under DAOD 5019-1:

Fraternization means any relationship between a CF member and a person from an enemy or belligerent force, or a CF member and a local inhabitant within a theatre of operations where CF members are deployed.

Obviously, that definition does not apply in this discussion.

A "personal relationship" is defined as:

an emotional, romantic, sexual or family relationship, including marriage or a common-law partnership or civil union, between two CF members, or a CF member and a DND employee or contractor, or member of an allied force

I think what everyone is referring to is called an "Adverse Personal Relationship", which is also defined under the same DAOD as:

If a personal relationship has a negative effect on the security, cohesion, discipline or morale of a unit, the personal relationship is considered adverse for the purpose of this DAOD.

It goes on to say:

Administrative action shall be taken to separate CF members who are involved in an adverse personal relationship.

If an adverse personal relationship cannot be changed within the applicable unit/sub-unit for the CF members in a supervisor/subordinate relationship, the CF members shall be separated by attached posting, posting, change in work assignments or other action.

Such a separation is not punitive in nature, nor shall there be a negative stigma or career implication towards the CF members.

I don't think there's anything under the NDA dealing with the old, traditional meaning of "fraternization".

I believe that at BMQ,any sexual relationship is classified as frat.

 

[dangerboy]

I believe that at BMQ,any sexual relationship is classified as frat.

It may be referred to as frat but as the correct definitions are as Occam posted.  The majority of people when they say fraternization really mean personal relationship and on a BMQ both are against the rules. 

 

[Nuggs]

It may be referred to as frat but as the correct definitions are as Occam posted.  The majority of people when they say fraternization really mean personal relationship and on a BMQ both are against the rules.

Excert from the CFLRS joining instructions:

8.Fraternization and sexual intercourse are strictly forbidden on Saint-Jean Garrison’s premises. Make sure that you review the remainder of this package paying particular attention to the sections regarding sexual misconduct, harassment and personal relationship.

 

[Occam]

Excert from the CFLRS joining instructions:

I'm not quite sure why you posted that, as it supports what dangerboy stated.  The CFLRS joining instructions merely point out the rules in "civvie language", and direct you to the appropriate CF regulations for further details.

 

[Scott]

I'm not quite sure why you posted that, as it supports what dangerboy stated.  The CFLRS joining instructions merely point out the rules in "civvie language", and direct you to the appropriate CF regulations for further details.

I see the answer right in your post and I bolded it for you.

 

[Occam]

I see the answer right in your post and I bolded it for you.

Sorry, it just looked a little odd to be using a locally drafted document to back up (or support) what a DAOD states.

 

[Bzzliteyr]

Speaking of "personal relationships", it seems we have an interesting case in the media right now with high level individual being relieved of his command due to the inappropriateness of it!

I'm eager to follow this to see how many references the media make to "fraternization"...

 

[Occam]

Speaking of "personal relationships", it seems we have an interesting case in the media right now with high level individual being relieved of his command due to the inappropriateness of it!

I'm eager to follow this to see how many references the media make to "fraternization"...

I'm just as curious to find out precisely what the investigation is hoping to reveal.

The DAOD states: 

If an adverse personal relationship cannot be changed within the applicable unit/sub-unit for the CF members in a supervisor/subordinate relationship, the CF members shall be separated by attached posting, posting, change in work assignments or other action.

Such a separation is not punitive in nature, nor shall there be a negative stigma or career implication towards the CF members.

So it's clear that the removal from command is an administrative action - what's not clear is why the press is going on about a possible CM, bearing in mind the text in yellow above?  (Unless there are other regulations in play here that I haven't considered...)

 

[owa]

I am engaged to a proud soldier currently stationed in Kaf. I do have a concern that I would like to share. When he calls, all he tells me about is how guys are cheating on their wives, wives are cheating on their husbands, but openly. He says that the wives here in the states and the guys there, have agreed to cheating. I have seen my dad go and come back twice and I KNOW that my parents would NEVER consent to something like that. My finance' has also shared with me how many female soldiers have tried to "get with him", he says that he tells them that he is engaged and their reply is "what happens in Kaf, stays in Kaf", I sometimes wonder, should I just let him go, have his fun, and when he comes back home, and if its meant to be, we will find each other again.
Im doing my internship at Womack in NC and have no intention of cheating. He tells me all the time, that he doesnt either, but if that is the case, why would he continue to tell me the horror stories of cheating husbands and wives, To me, thats "need to know" information.

I just read this.

I know my response is likely quite late, but I've really just started going through this thread (from newest posts to latest... so backwards)...

Anyway, I don't know this guy so it's hard to gauge, but he sounds like me in some ways.  I know I always tell my girlfriend all the stupid shit that goes on around me (I am a civilian, so this isn't military life).  If I go to a bar and a chick hits on me, or buys me a drink, or tries to get my number, I always tell the girlfriend the next day.  Not because I think she needs to know, but because it's usually a funny story, and I'll be honest, I want her to know she can trust me when I'm on my own.  She gets a laugh, and I get to reaffirm her trust in me.

I suppose the dilemma is two fold.  1.)  He could want you to give him approval to fool around, and 2.)  He might be guilty because he has fooled around and he just wants to make you feel like he hasn't (lying to himself almost).

I'm going to assume it's for the same reasons I tell my lady friend things, and not those two options I listed. 

 

[AF_Aviator]

This is an older thread but I'll put my story in the mix as well, just to vent. Came back from tour, wife was having an affair with a military member. Divorce is imminent and those who will suffer most are my children.  Much more to it, but the basis of what I want to bring attention to is the military member who would do this. The opportunists, the vultures and predators who look for it. I think they should be released from OUR military. They are beyond counter-productive to our goals and our rights to peace of mind and quality of life. Release them as the burdens they are. My marriage wasn't in trouble, but it did require some re-connection. The vulture saw it and struck a month into my tour. The spouse at home will do as they choose, but I "Brother in Arms" should know better and be dealt with as a burden to the CF, release. If this is not conduct un-becoming then the CF I joined so many years ago is no longer itself. My 2 cents.

 

[PuckChaser]

Sorry to hear about all that happened to you, however the best you can hope for is karma. That, or members of this person's unit will find out what he did and they'll get sorted out.

 

[captloadie]

This is an older thread but I'll put my story in the mix as well, just to vent. Came back from tour, wife was having an affair with a military member. Divorce is imminent and those who will suffer most are my children.  Much more to it, but the basis of what I want to bring attention to is the military member who would do this. The opportunists, the vultures and predators who look for it. I think they should be released from OUR military. They are beyond counter-productive to our goals and our rights to peace of mind and quality of life. Release them as the burdens they are. My marriage wasn't in trouble, but it did require some re-connection. The vulture saw it and struck a month into my tour. The spouse at home will do as they choose, but I "Brother in Arms" should know better and be dealt with as a burden to the CF, release. If this is not conduct un-becoming then the CF I joined so many years ago is no longer itself. My 2 cents.

This is a horrible thing to happen, but not at all uncommon. And it is not just the vultures who stay behind who are to blame. How many guys/gals become "tour couples", then go back to their spouses. Is it a sign that we are not meant to be monogamous, or the declining state of our moral values.

 

[tuffbutterfly]

This is a horrible thing to happen, but not at all uncommon. And it is not just the vultures who stay behind who are to blame. How many guys/gals become "tour couples", then go back to their spouses. Is it a sign that we are not meant to be monogamous, or the declining state of our moral values.

This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality. 

 

[Scott]

This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.

If you decide that he's going to cheat, or at the very leasy suspect that he might, based on what you read here - and before he even leaves, mind you, then I suspect that no amount of fidelity and "proof" will save you. Why are you so concerned? You offer nothing to substantiate your "nauseating" feeling.

Lawyers cheat, high school teachers cheat, hell, even some clergy have been caught cheating. And it doesn't take a deployment to another country to give a person the opportunity. Membership in the CF does not equate to a person being a philanderer, nor does deployment.

Sorry, but I think you're way, way off.

 

[armyvern]

This is so heartbreaking to hear, as my husband gets ready for his first tour and we are piecing together our already shaky relationship.  I have brought up the fact that he will have two lives- one with me and one without me.  It's already been a big concern that he will cheat while away and reading things like this just puts that nauseating feeling back in my stomach.  But I guess that's reality.

On the other side of the coin (& frequently forgotten by those at home):

He will be in exactly the same circumstances as you. YOU will have 2 lives - one with him and one without him. And cheating happens in Canada too by those at home.

Should he be as concerned about you doing that as you seem to be about him doing it?

Bet you haven't brought up the above "fact" to him though.

That's where trust comes in. THAT's the actual reality of the situation.