AOR Replacement & the Joint Support Ship (Merged Threads)

[Colin Parkinson]

Astreix is afloat and on the move!!!!!

https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/919901355241803777

 

[MilEME09]

Astreix is afloat and on the move!!!!!

https://twitter.com/chantierdavie/status/919901355241803777

I am assuming sea trials, isn't she due to be handed over next month?

 

[Colin Parkinson]

I believe so, but it is exciting to see. Now if the Libs contracted Davie to build another one under the same agreement, that would be a good election promise.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Click on the link in the Tweet and it takes you to the press release, which confirms that this is the sea trials under the supervision of the certifying authority (Lloyd's).

 

[MTShaw]

I believe so, but it is exciting to see. Now if the Libs contracted Davie to build another one under the same agreement, that would be a good election promise.

My first post. As long as they keep the two that are being made to military standards. (Blast and shock resistance etc.) The Asterix and another similar AOR will be useful only outside of of conflict areas.

Me

 

[Kirkhill]

With respect MTShaw

But how do you manage the problem of the Navy, in its blast and shock resistant ships, escorting civilian ships manned by civilians in convoys?  The civilians are not just transiting "troubled waters".  They are the targets.  They are the reason that the Navy is present.

They manage risk by minimizing the crew, and the capital cost, and maximizing the cargo.

One might be inclined to argue that if a 20 ship navy could be manned by 500 sailors (20x 25 and a technical possibility) no self respecting Flag Officer would settle for a Commander's (3-Ringer) command.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Having served on PROTECTEUR, I know that we had no illusions on our chances of surviving a torpedo attack.

Our primary procedure for such an eventuality was "our Father, who art in heaven ..."

irate:

 

[MTShaw]

Having served on PROTECTEUR, I know that we had no illusions on our chances of surviving a torpedo attack.

Our primary procedure for such an eventuality was "our Father, who art in heaven ..."

irate:

Well said. It was my potential naivety that led me to believe that all of the navy's major ships should be built to "military" standards. Is their a realistic improvement between commercial and military standards?

Me

 

[Underway]

Well said. It was my potential naivety that led me to believe that all of the navy's major ships should be built to "military" standards. Is their a realistic improvement between commercial and military standards?

Me

Generally there are a number of improvements in survivability and redundancy on military ships vice civilian ships in grey paint.  WRT the Asterix vs JSS there are a few:

-Asterix has a single shaft line, engine, rudder.  JSS will have two of each of those. 
-Asterix has less compartmentalization than the JSS, thus any damage it does sustain is potentially more disastrous as fire or flood can spread further more easily.
-Asterix has no ballistic protection, thus smaller caliber weapons can do more damage and explosions do more damage. 
-Asterix won't have self defence capability aside from some 50 cals for port security, where JSS will have hard and soft kill measures for many different threats (Nixie, ECM, MASS, CIWS, etc..). 
-JSS will also be able to operate in a chemical, biological and radiation environment, Asterix won't.
-JSS is edge ice capable, (Asterix might be but haven't found a reference that says it is so assuming no).

There are other differences but I think you get the picture.  Not to say Asterix isn't a good solution to a problem we have.  I'm not opposed to a high-low mix for the AORs.  Asterix can do a ton of good work in many ways where a proper warfighting AOR isn't required.

 

[MTShaw]

Generally there are a number of improvements in survivability and redundancy on military ships vice civilian ships in grey paint.  WRT the Asterix vs JSS there are a few:

-Asterix has a single shaft line, engine, rudder.  JSS will have two of each of those. 
-Asterix has less compartmentalization than the JSS, thus any damage it does sustain is potentially more disastrous as fire or flood can spread further more easily.
-Asterix has no ballistic protection, thus smaller caliber weapons can do more damage and explosions do more damage. 
-Asterix won't have self defence capability aside from some 50 cals for port security, where JSS will have hard and soft kill measures for many different threats (Nixie, ECM, MASS, CIWS, etc..). 
-JSS will also be able to operate in a chemical, biological and radiation environment, Asterix won't.
-JSS is edge ice capable, (Asterix might be but haven't found a reference that says it is so assuming no).

There are other differences but I think you get the picture.  Not to say Asterix isn't a good solution to a problem we have.  I'm not opposed to a high-low mix for the AORs.  Asterix can do a ton of good work in many ways where a proper warfighting AOR isn't required.

Thanks Underway.

I guess two of each would be way to much to ask for.

MTShaw

 

[PuckChaser]

I guess two of each would be way to much to ask for.

Not in a country that gave a crap about its military.

 

[Underway]

Thanks Underway.

I guess two of each would be way to much to ask for.

MTShaw

The requirement from the navy is 3 to 4 AOR's.  I would argue that 3 JSS and an Asterix would be a near perfect solution.  But we make do with what the gov't gives us.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The requirement from the navy is 3 to 4 AOR's.  I would argue that 3 JSS and an Asterix would be a near perfect solution.  But we make do with what the gov't gives us.

Pretty much an S.O.P. (Standing Operating Procedure) for the R.C.N.

For more details, read through the last 107 years of its history. 

Government = :rage:

R.C.N. =

 

[FSTO]

If we went 2 AOR's and 2 Astrix class then our pers bill might be a little easier to swallow.

that being said, I had a meeting with some fellow officers who were at the launch of Astrix. They were saying they will never get the bosn's out of there once they experience their own cabins, with TV and WiFi!

 

[Halifax Tar]

If we went 2 AOR's and 2 Astrix class then our pers bill might be a little easier to swallow.

that being said, I had a meeting with some fellow officers who were at the launch of Astrix. They were saying they will never get the bosn's out of there once they experience their own cabins, with TV and WiFi!

Nor should we ?  God forbid someday Officers and C&POs have to clean up after themselves and we don't house people (MS and below) in cesspools of sickness that are 21+ person mess decks

(FYI I am in the C&POs mess)

*edited for clarity

 

[Furniture]

Nor should we ?  God forbid someday Officers and C&POs have to clean up after themselves and we don't house people in cesspools of sickness that are 21+ person mess decks

(FYI I am in the C&POs mess)

Maybe they are different on the east coast but we cleaned our own mess decks on the west coast... another reason west is best.

Cabins will be great when they come, but I expect that the troops will need to be more closely inspected to ensure the standards are met. The young(sometimes old) guys won't have a MS breathing down their necks daily about clutter and cleanliness.

 

[jollyjacktar]

We clean our own messes too on the East Coast.  Although l have seen worse housekeeping in some of the Chiefs messes than lower down on occasion.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Maybe they are different on the east coast but we cleaned our own mess decks on the west coast... another reason west is best.

Cabins will be great when they come, but I expect that the troops will need to be more closely inspected to ensure the standards are met. The young(sometimes old) guys won't have a MS breathing down their necks daily about clutter and cleanliness.

I never said C&POs didn't clean their own sleeping messes.

Officers and C&POs Heads and wash places, surrounding flats and cafeteria are all cleaned by MS and below. Officers cabins are vacuumed by MS and below STWDs.

Habitability inspection(s) is fine and I think an expected part of military life. 

 

[FSTO]

Maybe they are different on the east coast but we cleaned our own mess decks on the west coast... another reason west is best.

Cabins will be great when they come, but I expect that the troops will need to be more closely inspected to ensure the standards are met. The young(sometimes old) guys won't have a MS breathing down their necks daily about clutter and cleanliness.

TROOPS!?!
Well if we allow the mud monkeys on our pristine ships it better be in the sea cans located on the upper decks so that we can hose them out after they dis-embark! :evil:

Sailors on the other hand know all about ships husbandry and they'll be clean. As for the civilians, (Astrix will have a small RCN cadre but the majority of the ships company will be civilian) well I bet there will be some sort of cleaning staff on board?

 

[jollyjacktar]

Actually the numbers l have seen put the RCN numbers over the civilian sailors.