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Canadian Federal Election 44 - Sep 2021

.Is having both parents outsource caring for their offspring really something we want to encourage as a society?
Having both parents prioritize jobs and dollars with the state caring for the kids from 7am to 6pm is really the best choice a society will encourage?
Any family who disagrees and keeps a parent home will now pay more taxes to allow others to afford the same things they could before having kids? Sounds great.
asking what we are trying to achieve and why would be helpful. I'm not dead set against subsidized childcare but something seems off on the equation to me. My children went to daycare, but it was also cheap compared to today.

There is clearly something wrong in the construct of our society when we have to mandate minimum wages, subsidized housing, subsidized everything but still as a society trend toward extinction. Obvioulsy this is a function of modern industrialized/service economies and not limited to Canada or even Western democracies
 
Is having both parents outsource caring for their offspring really something we want to encourage as a society?
Is forcing a parent to stay at home when they want to be out working something we want to encourage as a society?

Women in Quebec are not forced to put their children in childcare, but they are choosing to do so in order to participate in the workforce.

Its 2021 by the way, not 1950.
Having both parents prioritize jobs and dollars with the state caring for the kids from 7am to 6pm is really the best choice a society will encourage?
Give parents the choice.
Any family who disagrees and keeps a parent home will now pay more taxes to allow others to afford the same things they could before having kids? Sounds great.
Show me where people are paying more taxes. Did taxes rise overnight? Is there a childcare levy added to the GST? No? Well, sounds like taxes didn't rise.

And again, lets ignore all the economic benefits that are associated with increased economic activity and increased female workplace participation. Lets ignore all the income tax, job creation, spending, lets ignore all of that.
 
Alberta also has a higher average income, collects more taxes per capita, has a younger population thus not needing to support as many elderly people, and has a lower overall tax burden. Alberta made the choice to not have a sales tax of which proceeds could go towards things like child care. Alberta crying poor is really rich. Even with the oil crash and job losses it still has among the highest average incomes in the nation.

Except Alberta never cried poor. All Alberta wants is to be the left the fuck alone, because the people in the province actually believe in personal responsibility.

Finger-wagging from Quebec just deserves a punch in the face quite frankly. They're nothing but a drain on Confederation and somehow go around thinking they deserve to be treated better than everyone else. Anything else is "unfair" and treating them equally is "picking on them," i.e. Bill C-21.

Put in a sales tax and stop complaining.

Put in a sales tax so we can further serve people like you who can't take responsibility for themselves. What were you saying about "that's really rich."

Albertan should put in a sales tax so Altair out in Ontario can buy a house so he doesn't have to make the sacrifices most people in Alberta made.

Except cities have, as I have shown, contributed greatly to the economic success of the provinces they are in.

Montreal providing 55 percent of Quebecs GDP. Toronto providing 54 percent. You want to get people in the cities to...not live in cities? Are small towns in the country ready for the influx of city dwellers descending on their communities? Is the infrastructure there? The housing, the jobs, the hospitals?

I doubt that very much. But it would be a great experiment to take 10 percent of Torontos populations and dump in in Wawa ontario.

Except GDP is not the only measure of an economy. You realize part of GDP is government spending right? So if the government borrows a $1 billion and then spends it on a bridge to nowhere or in other words burns $1 billion dollars, that's $1 billion added to the GDP.

What are these cities doing that produces wealth exactly? What their net exports (and not just goods, including financial and tech services, etc.)? How much money are they being paid vs how much money are paying out? That's the real measure of whether you're generating wealth or just being a drain.

In 2018, Toronto represented 40% of Canada's import requirements... I'm not so confident they are making up for that with their tech and service industries.

Also, people migrate gradually over time, your "experiment" is just you making more strawman's.

What else should urban canadians need to pay directly for?

Schools?
Hospitals?
Police?
Road maintenance?
Firefighters?

What other public service should urban canadians need to break out the credit card for in order to receive a service, or is childcare where the line must be drawn?

Again, you're not able to understand the topic. I never said they should "directly" pay for any of those services... I do think however that all those things listed are provincial responsibilities for a reason, and when the province is unable manage itself, they need to figure it out, not start stealing from other provinces for their failures through the Federal government spending powers. Newfoundland's inability to govern itself shouldn't become Alberta's problem... Toronto's inability to govern itself shouldn't become Alberta's problem. Draw the line where the constitution drew it... and people in unsustainable situations can either vote for better government policies at the provincial and municipal level or vote with their feet.

The Federal government spending powers are going to break Confederation.

Why would women want to get ahead in their careers? Why would women want to work? Why would families not want to have a duel income so they can afford the things they had before having kids?

Better question, if you have kids one day, why don't you stay home for 2 years? You're asking women(and its largely women) to do so, maybe as a society we should ask men to do that and watch the results.

Unless you prescribe to the philosophy that women belong at home raising kids and men must go out and earn a living.

That would be between myself and my partner, and what King Altair thinks we should do will not factor into the equation. I'm not asking women to do anything they don't want / choose to do, so you can take all your insinuations and go pound sand.

Do you ever stop to think that maybe women are less likely to dedicate their entire life to their career, and choose a more balanced lifestyle, is not because we're oppressing them but maybe because they are smarter than men? That investing in your family is a better long-term strategy for happiness, and that for most people pursuing C-suite jobs and working 80 hours a week in pursuit of status is simply not a good idea?

Again, personal choices and responsibility. Your desire to socially engineer society is a circus, and Scandinavian countries have shown the more egalitarian society becomes, the more likely they are to make choices that you are exactly advocating they shouldn't.

When the top credit rating agencies stop considering Canadians debt amongst the top tier I will start to care.

That would be waaaay too late to start caring.

I guess you do not understand that if the economy grows faster than the debt accumulates it gets easier to service that debt.

Like I said, GDP is not the only measure, not even the best measure of an economy's strength. If the GDP is primarily made up of government spending, for example, then no, it does not indicate that you're able to service your debt.

What indicates your ability to service your debt are is your operating income, liquidity, etc., which is why when evaluating corporations (which is all the government really is) ratios like debt-to-service, etc. are used by banks to evaluate a company's ability to service their debt. The Federal gov'ts debt-to-service ratio is good right now at ~10% thanks to Chretien, Martin, and Harper who brought it down after Trudeau 1 managed to bring it from ~12% to ~48% in only 16 years.... in other words, we can quickly go from "good" to "crisis" real relatively quickly, which is what I would be concerned about.

The Federal government's debt-service ratio is only one issue. The cumulative government (federal + provincial + municipal) debt-service ratio is really the measure of the entire country's ability to service all of its debt.

But who am I kidding, we'll just inflate the currency by printing more money, which makes debt cheaper.... and destroys the value of people's savings..... leaving behind people like yourself who are saving to buy a house. This fiat currency thing is a doomed social experiment in the making.

I don't need lessons in financial statements analysis from you quite frankly. I do understand what they mean, you clearly don't and are just spouting off the same shit the government says.


Bottom line, the welfare trap was bad for Newfoundland, and it's going to be bad for Canada.
 
There is clearly something wrong in the construct of our society when we have to mandate minimum wages, subsidized housing, subsidized everything
Well, that's what happens when wage growth is increasing by the bare minimum and other expenses like housing and childcare are rising by leaps and bounds. The private sector doesn't care, and would have people living in huts if it meant they could eke out more in profit for their shareholders.
 
Are you comparing the legal to the illegal?
Yes if the goal is increased labour force participation why not widen the labour pool. I'm not trolling you exactly just pointing out an issue the legality of which is totally arbitrary. We coddle our children way too much and they are much more capable than they are treated.
There were multiple factors involved before as well, but Quebec was in lockstep with Ontario none the less. Besides, question you asked was did childcare lead to increased birthrate, and the answer is yes.
I don't know that the answer is yes, there's a 9% increase how much of that increase is due to one factor and at what significance level
I think that wage growth, economic participation, increased economic activity, more independence for women, women having children earlier in life leading to less challenging pregnancies' later on in life, women not being forces to put their careers on pause are all really important developments.
These all seem positive
 
Its 2021 by the way, not 1950.
Ah, the true essence of the argument, care to be explicit about what you think my statements said?
 
Except Alberta never cried poor. All Alberta wants is to be the left the fuck alone, because the people in the province actually believe in personal responsibility.
Welcome to confederation, enjoy your stay.
Finger-wagging from Quebec just deserves a punch in the face quite frankly. They're nothing but a drain on Confederation and somehow go around thinking they deserve to be treated better than everyone else. Anything else is "unfair" and treating them equally is "picking on them," i.e. Bill C-21.
Quebec will do what Quebec will do.
Put in a sales tax so we can further serve people like you who can't take responsibility for themselves. What were you saying about "that's really rich."
lol, put in a sales tax and balance the books in alberta, or don't and stop complaining about how the province is suffering from the oil crash.

If Alberta did away with income tax and then complained to the rest of the provinces that it couldn't balance the books, do you think that would be looked on favorably? Probably not.
Albertan should put in a sales tax so Altair out in Ontario can buy
I don't see how a sales tax put in place in Alberta would benefit anyone outside of Alberta. So sales taxes get sent elsewhere? I'm curious. I know Alberta doesn't have a lot of experience with the concept but I don't think that's how sales taxes work.
Except GDP is not the only measure of an economy. You realize part of GDP is government spending right? So if the government borrows a $1 billion and then spends it on a bridge to nowhere or in other words burns $1 billion dollars, that's $1 billion added to the GDP.
Okay, well, if you let me know what other metric I should use I'll use that. But poo pooing GDP and not presenting an alternative isn't very productive now is it?
What are these cities doing that produces wealth exactly? What their net exports (and not just goods, including financial and tech services, etc.)? How much money are they being paid vs how much money are paying out? That's the real measure of whether you're generating wealth or just being a drain.
aerospace, electronic goods, pharmaceuticals, printed goods, software engineering, telecommunications, textile and apparel manufacturing, tourism and transportation, civil, mechanical and process engineering, finance, higher education, and research and development.
In 2018, Toronto represented 40% of Canada's import requirements... I'm not so confident they are making up for that with their tech and service industries.
Well, until it can be proven otherwise.
Also, people migrate gradually over time, your "experiment" is just you making more strawman's.
Right, so what do we do in the meantime? hmmm.
Again, you're not able to understand the topic. I never said they should "directly" pay for any of those services... I do think however that all those things listed are provincial responsibilities for a reason, and when the province is unable manage itself, they need to figure it out, not start stealing from other provinces for their failures through the Federal government spending problems. Newfoundland's inability to govern itself shouldn't become Alberta's problem... Toronto's inability to govern itself shouldn't become Alberta's problem. Draw the line where the constitution drew it... and people in unsustainable situations can either vote for better government policies at the provincial and municipal level or vote with their feet.
I like how a federally funded program that offers the program to all provinces is somehow stealing.
The Federal government spending powers are going to break Confederation.
Provincial spending powers are going to break confederation. Federally, Canadian debt loads are not that bad.
That would be between myself and my partner, and what King Altair thinks we should do will not factor into the equation. I'm not asking women to do anything they don't want / choose to do, so you can take all your insinuations and go pound sand.
Haha, well, shame. Alberta and Ontario, the last two holdouts for the childcare program are both talking about getting on board, so you may go weep about that all you like, but its coming.
Do you ever stop to think that maybe women are less likely to dedicate their entire life to their career, and choose a more balanced lifestyle, is not because we're oppressing them but maybe because they are smarter than men? That investing in your family is a better long-term strategy for happiness, and that for most people pursuing C-suite jobs and working 80 hours a week in pursuit of status is simply not a good idea?
No, because when Quebec women were given the choice with universal childcare they choose to get back to work.
Again, personal choices and responsibility. Your desire to socially engineer society is a circus, and Scandinavian countries have shown the more egalitarian society becomes, the more likely they are to make choices that you are exactly advocating they shouldn't.
You talk about choices. In what scenario is having a person stuck at home raising a child when they want to be in the workforce considered more choices than giving someone the option to have access to affordable childcare freeing them up to work if they choose or stay home if they so desire?
That would be waaaay too late to start caring.
Well, in my opinion, crying about it being harder to borrow money before the fact is way to early. Again, the G7 is in largely the same boat, some better some worse, but most are on a debt binge and I don't see people taking about the west collapsing under the weight of its debt. Just Canada.
Like I said, GDP is not the only measure, not even the best measure of an economy's strength. If the GDP is primarily made up of government spending, for example, then no, it does not indicate that you're able to service your debt.
Present your alternative.
What indicates your ability to service your debt are is your operating income, liquidity, etc., which is why when evaluating corporations (which is all the government really is) ratios like debt-to-service, etc. are used by banks to evaluate a company's ability to service their debt. The Federal gov'ts debt-to-service ratio is good right now at ~10% thanks to Chretien, Martin, and Harper who brought it down after Trudeau 1 managed to bring it from ~12% to ~48% in only 16 years.... in other words, we can quickly go from "good" to "crisis" real relatively quickly, which is what I would be concerned about.
We can, but even with the debt binge now, we are not at crisis levels. What matters more right now is that operating income rises in the next few years to get us back on track.
The Federal government's debt-service ratio is only one issue. The cumulative government (federal + provincial + municipal) debt-service ratio is really the measure of the entire country's ability to service all of its debt.
Unless you want the federal government to start dictating provincial budgets, leave provincial debt out of the equation. Because even if the federal government gets it house in order and provinces do not, the cumulative debt levels would still rise and you would still complain.
But who am I kidding, we'll just inflate the currency by printing more money, which makes debt cheaper.... and destroys the value of people's savings..... leaving behind people like yourself who are saving to buy a house. This fiat currency thing is a doomed social experiment in the making.
Except we have been printing money like mad and the currency is stable. Because everyone is printing money like mad, which means it doesn't effect the Canadian currency in any particular way. It would have been interesting if Canada didn't print money, because then you might get the case where the currency shot up in value making exports more expensive and suffering a shock to the system in that way.

Economics is fun.
I don't need lessons in financial statements analysis from you quite frankly. I do understand what they mean, you clearly don't and are just spouting off the same shit the government says.
Of course, you must know better than I and the gov, and economists...
Bottom line, the welfare trap was bad for Newfoundland, and it's going to be bad for Canada.
Yes, as goes Newfoundland, as goes Canada, as has been the case since 1949...
 
Except Alberta never cried poor. All Alberta wants is to be the left the fuck alone, because the people in the province actually believe in personal responsibility.
you have seen Alberta sending patients outside the province and the military coming in to help? Because they wanted to be left the eff alone and take personal responsibility during a pandemic, Welcome to confederation indeed. The bad stuff and the good stuff.
 
Yes if the goal is increased labour force participation why not widen the labour pool. I'm not trolling you exactly just pointing out an issue the legality of which is totally arbitrary. We coddle our children way too much and they are much more capable than they are treated.

Yes, let's put the little b****rds (literal and figurative) to work. Now, what are they capable of doing? Since even most minimum wage jobs prefer applicants to have some education, high school completion ideal - what skill sets/credentials should be the minimum before putting them on the job? Literacy and numeracy? Some familiarity with basic hand tools? Social skills that translate to some degree of customer service relations? Or is at least one functioning hand and a weak mind sufficient? How long will it take to prepare a "yout" for minimum participation in the workforce? It's probably been over a hundred years since any province (less Newfoundland which wasn't a province a 100 years ago) had a school leaving age under 14 years. I think it was either 14 or 15 back when I was in high school (Nfld) a half century ago.
 
Yes, let's put the little b****rds (literal and figurative) to work. Now, what are they capable of doing? Since even most minimum wage jobs prefer applicants to have some education, high school completion ideal - what skill sets/credentials should be the minimum before putting them on the job? Literacy and numeracy? Some familiarity with basic hand tools? Social skills that translate to some degree of customer service relations? Or is at least one functioning hand and a weak mind sufficient? How long will it take to prepare a "yout" for minimum participation in the workforce? It's probably been over a hundred years since any province (less Newfoundland which wasn't a province a 100 years ago) had a school leaving age under 14 years. I think it was either 14 or 15 back when I was in high school (Nfld) a half century ago.
I don't know if your response is supposed to be taken 100% seriously but mine haven't as I have stated twice already.

But kids not teenagers can do much more than what they allowed to do now, and people wonder why there are so many discipline and self-worth issues. Myself and my kids and my grandkids have all "worked" when appropriate. Cooking, cleaning, gardening, painting etc...Todays work environment is not as easy to navigate, and having your kids work at the family business like we did probably wouldn't be viewed as favourably as it was then.

The point being if workplace participation is be all and end all goal why stop at daycare lower the working minimum age raise the age of CPP eligibility to 75(if that makes it easier to wrap your head around)
 
Ah yes, lets us all go back to the 1950s shall we?
Ah yes, all ya' got. I guess I was in "the 1950's" during the 1990's, and somehow made it through. Still have never had a hot tub, double vanity, or been on a fancy vacation. Yet somehow I'm not broken....
 
Ah yes, all ya' got. I guess I was in "the 1950's" during the 1990's, and somehow made it through. Still have never had a hot tub, double vanity, or been on a fancy vacation. Yet somehow I'm not broken....
If you bothered to care you would have learned that many people just want a basic house and still not be able to afford it, but you don't care to learn and I'm done trying to convince you, so yes, back to the 1950s.
 
Unless all public systems in Canada are suffering from piss poor implementation on the politicians part.

I wrote about social programs, not "all public systems". Universality of social programs is mostly a debate progressives have among themselves. If they want to pay for one social program that is universal instead of two or three aimed at the people most in need, they can do that. It vacates their perpetual moralistic whinging about the needy, but if they can't grasp the practical effects of opportunity cost I doubt they have enough sentience to recognize their own shortcomings.
 
I wrote about social programs, not "all public systems". Universality of social programs is mostly a debate progressives have among themselves. If they want to pay for one social program that is universal instead of two or three aimed at the people most in need, they can do that. It vacates their perpetual moralistic whinging about the needy, but if they can't grasp the practical effects of opportunity cost I doubt they have enough sentience to recognize their own shortcomings.
I'm just going off of Quebecs system.

But, and this is the part I do like, its up to the provinces to create a system. Same as weed, alcohol, healthcare, education, its up to the provinces to come up with their own system within the limits set up by the feds for funding.

I imagine if the provinces want to make it means tested, the feds wont get in their way.
 
Is forcing a parent to stay at home when they want to be out working something we want to encourage as a society?

Try to think before you write. No-one is "forcing a parent to stay at home". People make choices that have consequences that limit courses of action for their future choices.

>The private sector doesn't care

Where do you get your happy horseshit from? The "private sector" only succeeds when it provides things people want, which means it has to "care" about what they want. If you wanted to find people who don't care, look for people who have rules to follow and stick closely to them irrespective of the circumstances of any particular petitioner for some kind of service.
 
The other big change in 1996 was EI reform. EI reform affected all of Canada, not just QC. Changes in work force composition were observed in QC and elsewhere. The prudent explanation is that EI reform was the larger driver.
 
Try to think before you write. No-one is "forcing a parent to stay at home". People make choices that have consequences that limit courses of action for their future choices.
If someone cannot afford childcare and are thus unable to work, then that seems pretty forced to me.

Less choice.

Affordable childcare would allow people, especially women, to re-enter the workforce earlier, and society would reap all the benefits associated with that.

I do like how the BQ like childcare, seeing as the system originated in Quebec, the NDP have been advocating for it for decades, since the 90s I believe, and the LPC are finally getting around to it, and there is one party in parliament that is opposed to it.

Now numbers in parliament don't make something right or wrong, but I do find it interesting that there is one party that is still not in keeping up with the other parties.

Same as with legal weed, same as with universal healthcare (I looked it up, guess who opposed it way back when?) same as with CCB, same as with gay marriage, same as with conversion therapy, etc.

I'll end this with saying that if the opinions presented here are largely shared within the CPC, as it seems like many here are CPC supporters, it doesn't shock me at all that the CPC didn't win a SINGLE seat in Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and are losing ground in Edmonton and Calgary.

I will go as far as to say this. If the CPC left the LPC OIC on guns alone, continued the LPC childcare plan, vaccinated all their candidates, they would be forming government now.
 
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