CFRC
- Thread starter Skinny
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chances are yes they could, if they are really busy unfortuantley they might not have time.
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1-800-856-8488 is the tollfree recruiting number that will connect you to the local centre in your area if you are unsure of the number.
Cheers
Cheers
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As an instructor I am getting 'frustrated' at the lack of care recruiters are showing. The level of competancy in the recruits that we now get is far below the military standard that we in the military need to have in place. An example, this summer I received a section with 13 candiates on it, after one week I was down to 10, a week later 9, on the last week I lost another one. I had one troop with ADD another suffering from depression and two who only signed up because they thought that they would be practicing martial arts and black ops crap. I know the standards I don't know if there are quotas ( please say no) that have to be filled; but the point is that CFRC has to stop worring about numbers, stop wasting money and time and stop these kids from entering the system. Employ better standards rewrite the recruiting process. Especially for the combat arms....last thing I need is another ADD on a live fire range.
LOAD!
LOAD!
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MCpl Wesite said:
I will assume that you are talking about reserve applicants. Applicants that were recruited by their units and deemed worthy enough by those units to be processed by the CF recruiting system. Once in the system they were screened at the same level as any other CF applicant and held to the same high entrance standards. As I don't know the details of exactly what happen to these particular recruits I would hazard a guess that they had met the standards and probably neglected to mention any problems during their processing, if they in fact had any problems.
Now for you to insinuate that the CF recruiting system would purposely process and enrolled applicants, whether they be Reg or Res, who may present a danger to themselves and to others is asinine. Also to insinuate that we in recruiting are only concerned with numbers and wasting money and time is ignorant and asinine.
While I can't determine your motive for posting the rhetoric, I would suggest that if you have a legitimate complaint about the recruiting system you could pass up your chain of command.
D
dutchie
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Kincanucks:
While I normally find your posts on recruiting to be informative and intelligent, I find this response to be anything but. This MCpl, who is instructing the troops that you process, brought up a relevant and significant issue in an articulate and straight-forward way, and provided examples. Your response?
Did he insinuate that CFRC was pushing through troops who they knew to be a danger? No, I don't think he did. He did provide an example of a dangerous situation...
and this...
He didn't say numbers and dollars were the only concern. He simply expressed the opinion that while quantity of troops has gone up, the quality has gone down, in his HO. I agree with him. Why recruit people who so obviously do not possess the mind set to soldier? If he (and I) can see it after a week of BMQ, what does that say about the 'vetting' proces at CFRC? If it's the evaluation system, fix it, if it's priorities (numbers vs. quality), stop pushing recruits through who can't hack it(his 'waste of money' argument).
So, no one here can bring up something that concerns them? This would be a pretty lonely place if troops weren't allowed to b*itch. It's our God-given right you know.
Could you perhaps formulate an articulate, well-thought out response to his concern? The BMQ/SQ MCpl is critical to the recruiting process, and to dismiss his concerns as 'assinine' is really quite shallow. Give him the respect he deserves.
I await your mature thoughts on this important recruiting issue. I suspect that due to your expertise, you have knowlege and insight into this problem.
While I normally find your posts on recruiting to be informative and intelligent, I find this response to be anything but. This MCpl, who is instructing the troops that you process, brought up a relevant and significant issue in an articulate and straight-forward way, and provided examples. Your response?
kincanucks said:
Did he insinuate that CFRC was pushing through troops who they knew to be a danger? No, I don't think he did. He did provide an example of a dangerous situation...
but that was hardly insinuating that CFRC pushed a guy through they knew to be a danger on a range.MCpl Wesite said:
and this...
kincanucks said:
He didn't say numbers and dollars were the only concern. He simply expressed the opinion that while quantity of troops has gone up, the quality has gone down, in his HO. I agree with him. Why recruit people who so obviously do not possess the mind set to soldier? If he (and I) can see it after a week of BMQ, what does that say about the 'vetting' proces at CFRC? If it's the evaluation system, fix it, if it's priorities (numbers vs. quality), stop pushing recruits through who can't hack it(his 'waste of money' argument).
His motive? Well, knowing this particular MCpl as well as I do, I suspect that he was motivated by his desire to take quality recruits and turn them into quality soldiers. Give him the raw materials (suitable recruits) and he'll produce well trained Pte soldiers. If you give him people not CAPABLE of soldiering well, or without the will to soldier, what do you think will be the result? Incompetant, and possibly unsafe soldiers.kincanucks said:
kincanucks said:
So, no one here can bring up something that concerns them? This would be a pretty lonely place if troops weren't allowed to b*itch. It's our God-given right you know.
Could you perhaps formulate an articulate, well-thought out response to his concern? The BMQ/SQ MCpl is critical to the recruiting process, and to dismiss his concerns as 'assinine' is really quite shallow. Give him the respect he deserves.
I await your mature thoughts on this important recruiting issue. I suspect that due to your expertise, you have knowlege and insight into this problem.
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I'm not surprised at the poor quality of recruits that the MCpl is speaking of. Back in 1997/98 we were having the same problems with the vetting process at CFRC. I had one recruit who ended up leaving because he was not adapting well to military life. On further examination, he had a drug use record as long as my arm and for some reason, CFRC never picked up on it. I even had recruits show up for recruit training with an inhaler for asthma and for some reason, they still made it through the screening of the recruiting process.
Recruits were showing for basic training unprepared to undertake the rigors of the training. Many had no real idea of what they were really getting themselves into. There needs to be more of a familiarization process prior to shipping for training. This is a lesson that can be learned from the Marines.
Here in the Marine Corps, recruits, once processed and approved for training, need to spend time in what we call the recruit pool. Poolies, as they are known, will spend one day a month learning about Marine Corps training as well as participating in regular physical fitness training on their own before they are allowed to ship to boot camp. They are prepared both mentally and physically for what will take place at boot camp. Once they get there, it is still a shock but they knew what they were getting themselves into and didin't just arrive for training in the dark. Recruiters spend a lot of time preparing the applicants once they are processed. Their job doesn't end with getting them to sign the contract. They are responsible for their preparation until they ship to training.
Once at boot camp, the recruiter is still held responsible for the applicants making it through phase one of tarining (three weeks). If they don't make it through the first three weeks, the recruiter is held responsible for not preparing the poolie adequately and as a result, his average (number of total recruits who make it through successfully) is affected which in turn affects his fitness report. There is accountability at all levels.
What seems to be missing in the CF process is this accountability aspect. There is no real chain of ownership. Once the applicant is deemed qualified and sent to training, the accountability ends. It's much like buying a car without any warranty.
CFRETS could learn a lot about how the recruiting business is done at Recruiting Command in Quantico, Va. Marine Corps recruiting is very efficient and the attrition rate at boot camp is comparatively low. The key to reforming the CF recruiting process lies in taking a lesson from those who know how to do it and do it right.
PJ D-Dog
Recruits were showing for basic training unprepared to undertake the rigors of the training. Many had no real idea of what they were really getting themselves into. There needs to be more of a familiarization process prior to shipping for training. This is a lesson that can be learned from the Marines.
Here in the Marine Corps, recruits, once processed and approved for training, need to spend time in what we call the recruit pool. Poolies, as they are known, will spend one day a month learning about Marine Corps training as well as participating in regular physical fitness training on their own before they are allowed to ship to boot camp. They are prepared both mentally and physically for what will take place at boot camp. Once they get there, it is still a shock but they knew what they were getting themselves into and didin't just arrive for training in the dark. Recruiters spend a lot of time preparing the applicants once they are processed. Their job doesn't end with getting them to sign the contract. They are responsible for their preparation until they ship to training.
Once at boot camp, the recruiter is still held responsible for the applicants making it through phase one of tarining (three weeks). If they don't make it through the first three weeks, the recruiter is held responsible for not preparing the poolie adequately and as a result, his average (number of total recruits who make it through successfully) is affected which in turn affects his fitness report. There is accountability at all levels.
What seems to be missing in the CF process is this accountability aspect. There is no real chain of ownership. Once the applicant is deemed qualified and sent to training, the accountability ends. It's much like buying a car without any warranty.
CFRETS could learn a lot about how the recruiting business is done at Recruiting Command in Quantico, Va. Marine Corps recruiting is very efficient and the attrition rate at boot camp is comparatively low. The key to reforming the CF recruiting process lies in taking a lesson from those who know how to do it and do it right.
PJ D-Dog
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Face it some bad ones slip through sometimes. We don't put these people on lie detectors and if they don't answer the questions truthfully they can sneak through. I had one applicant who told me he had only used marijuana a couple of times then he is interviewed by a female officer and he decides to tell her his truth drug usage history.
PJ D-Dog: We haven't had CFRETS for about four years now.
PJ D-Dog: We haven't had CFRETS for about four years now.
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Thx Caesar, now I don't have to type alot. I think the military has to change it's recruiting requirments. While I understand that the military must be open to all Canadian citizens, surely we can impose some standards besides Grade 10 and doing a set min. number of situps and push-ups. Some of these recruits that we do get can't even do those. So what happened? CFRC has to put the hammer down. The CF Express test for both reg and res non combat arms and the PT 400 or BFT for comabt arms. Make that a requirement even before they see the barber 8)
And as kincanuck, if you do work at CFRC I hope you pay attention to all the volutary releases / training failures / charges from this summer. I am not making this stuff up.
And as kincanuck, if you do work at CFRC I hope you pay attention to all the volutary releases / training failures / charges from this summer. I am not making this stuff up.
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kincanucks said:
by the way my motive is producing the best soldiers Canada can get, not the most.
edited for spelling
D
dutchie
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MCpl Wesite said:
At least he didn't fall asleep in the prone at the 100 with the weapon on 'R', eh Scrubs?
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lol, he wouldn't have been the first! :dontpanic:
I was under the assumption that Militia/Reserve units recruited their own personal?
If so, then where would the CFRC come into play in all of this?
As well, maybe this problem is just indicative to the west coast?, I haven't seen any complaints from anywhere east of the BC/Alta border...unless they start posting now.
If so, then where would the CFRC come into play in all of this?
As well, maybe this problem is just indicative to the west coast?, I haven't seen any complaints from anywhere east of the BC/Alta border...unless they start posting now.
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Blakey said:I was under the assumption that Militia/Reserve units recruited their own personal?
If so, then where would the CFRC come into play in all of this?
As well, maybe this problem is just indicative to the west coast?, I haven't seen any complaints from anywhere east of the BC/Alta border...unless they start posting now.
All reservists are recruited by the reserve units but are processed through the CFRC/Ds.
"As well, maybe this problem is just indicative to the west coast?, I haven't seen any complaints from anywhere east of the BC/Alta border...unless they start posting now"
Blakey,
Ease up on the West Coast....unless you can actrually back that statement up. I have had many dealings with the staff of one recruiting center on the "West Coast" and I assure you they are very though and professional members. If you where refering to the canidates on the "west coast" I really dont know what you could base that bold statement on....please enlighten.
Ryan
Blakey,
Ease up on the West Coast....unless you can actrually back that statement up. I have had many dealings with the staff of one recruiting center on the "West Coast" and I assure you they are very though and professional members. If you where refering to the canidates on the "west coast" I really dont know what you could base that bold statement on....please enlighten.
Ryan
MCpl, if you are referring to Reserve recruits, you need to be aware that Reserve units are responsible for attracting (i.e. recruiting) their own recruits. The CFRC simply processes them IAW applicable standards. Medical conditions are a tricky subject - unless the applicant admits to having a pre-existing condition during the Part One medical,it is unlikely that the Physician's Assistant will discover it unless there is obvious physiological evidence. Mental health conditions are not easy to diagnose. As far as I know, CFRCs do the best they can to screen out those who do not measure up. Imagine the potential recruits that are being screened out... As a result, you (the training system instructors) become the 2nd line of "defence". There are no quotas for CFRCs - they only process as many as are attracted by the local Reserve units.
