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Cutting the CF/DND HQ bloat - Excess CF Sr Leadership, Public Servants and Contractors

Oldgateboatdriver said:
It sharpens the mind. I had a division commander once who decided that all OIC's intention messages would be passed to other ships by signal light for one week (that is using morse code one letter at a time). The signalmen made quite sure that all the JO's drafting those messages became very, very, very concise.  :nod:
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[tangential reference to Hollywod film]

Hopefully they never accidentally sent the measurements for the Playmate of the Month...  ;D

[/tangential refernce to Hollywood film]
 
Good2Golf said:
[tangential reference to Hollywod film]

Hopefully they never accidentally sent the measurements for the Playmate of the Month...  ;D

[/tangential refernce to Hollywood film]
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One ping only, Vasili.
 
Dimsum said:
One ping only, Vasili.
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I didn't know Russians spoke with a Scots accent until I saw The Hunt for Red October. Apparently Spartans did as well.....
 
Hamish Seggie said:
I didn't know Russians spoke with a Scots accent until I saw The Hunt for Red October. Apparently Spartans did as well.....
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There's a book about it, Hamish:

         
How_the_Scots_Invented_the_World.png
 
I wonder if the new boss has the parts to do what the PMO said to do and cut the chaff
 
Oldgateboatdriver said:
It sharpens the mind. I had a division commander once who decided that all OCS's intention messages would be passed to other ships by signal light for one week (that is using morse code one letter at a time). The signalmen made quite sure that all the JO's drafting those messages became very, very, very concise.  :nod:
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Op Dracula had some good examples of clarity and brevity we could do well to emulate:

'Japs gone. Extract digit'  :nod:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Dracula
 
Came across this on LinkedIn and felt it had to be posted - It's here because I tossed a coin.  It applies to so many threads here.
If it is any comfort it demonstrates that the uniformed world is not alone in frustration.

ext
 
Aren't VPs 2 and 3 the same? 

I'd make VP 3 the "VP You'll be sorry you asked" with a Director of You're Not Done Yet, and Director of That's Not the Rock I'm Looking For.
 
Good2Golf said:
Aren't VPs 2 and 3 the same? 

I'd make VP 3 the "VP You'll be sorry you asked" with a Director of You're Not Done Yet, and Director of That's Not the Rock I'm Looking For.
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I think we need to strike a committee to resolve that.  We'll put VP Status Quo and VP Stay the Course on it an have them report back as soon as they have an answer.
 
Chris Pook said:
I think we need to strike a committee to resolve that.  We'll put VP Status Quo and VP Stay the Course on it an have them report back as soon as they have an answer.
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And tell them both that the other one doesn't know it, but there's a bonus for cutting staff  ;D #hungergamesreorg
 
Good2Golf said:
Aren't VPs 2 and 3 the same? 

I'd make VP 3 the "VP You'll be sorry you asked" with a Director of You're Not Done Yet, and Director of That's Not the Rock I'm Looking For.
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Droids.....he was looking for DROIDS dammit!
 
For whatever it is worth, a very long time ago we had fallen way behind in pay. Young junior soldiers, both NCMs and officers, were really struggling financially. The Commander of 1 Brigade (he was based in Calgary) at the time and his deputy set up a program to help their soldiers and their families obtain social assistance, aka welfare. The press got ahold of it, wonder how, and had a field day embarrassing the DND and the forces for not looking after their people.

The CDA fulminated that he would not allow an army general in Western Canada question how the budget was being spent, or something equally fatuous. Fortunately this was during the short-lived Joe Clark government and Senator Stan Waters (ex-1SSF, 1 Can Para and PPCLI) got him to declare that he saw nothing wrong with an officer looking after his troops.
 
Old Sweat said:
For whatever it is worth, a very long time ago we had fallen way behind in pay. Young junior soldiers, both NCMs and officers, were really struggling financially. The Commander of 1 Brigade (he was based in Calgary) at the time and his deputy set up a program to help their soldiers and their families obtain social assistance, aka welfare. The press got ahold of it, wonder how, and had a field day embarrassing the DND and the forces for not looking after their people.

The CDA fulminated that he would not allow an army general in Western Canada question how the budget was being spent, or something equally fatuous. Fortunately this was during the short-lived Joe Clark government and Senator Stan Waters (ex-1SSF, 1 Can Para and PPCLI) got him to declare that he saw nothing wrong with an officer looking after his troops.
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I remember that. I was in 1 Signals at the time. It was quite a fiasco.
 
A short rant in the Vancouver Sun's opinion section is beating to the same drum as this thread.

Liberals need to cut the fat off the top of defence budget
Time to fix bloated bureaucracy
Vancouver Sun
Opinions - John Dacombe
14 July 2016

The Liberal regime in Ottawa has launched a Defence Policy Review for the first time since the mid-1990s, so clearly it is about time. But while the Liberals are denying this review will include cuts, cuts are exactly the conversation that needs to happen.

Defence budgets have in recent years hovered just shy of $20 billion a year, a significant part of discretionary spending at the federal level. What that money has bought Canada is a decent, but limited, global reach, world class skills in a few areas, several thousand operationally ready soldiers, sailors, airmen, airwomen, and special forces operators - and lots and lots of fat at the top.

National Defence Headquarters (NDHQ) is bursting at the seams with hardworking, intelligent people, civilian and military. Unfortunately, many of those people are busy with unnecessary work, answering to a bloated inverted pyramid leadership structure. A surplus of senior officers and civilian managers has been busy for decades creating a rewards system within NDHQ, where the same senior staff recommending matériel and services to the political level seamlessly move into jobs with the suppliers they recently recommended.

And for those remaining in public service, doing right for taxpayers is subsumed by empire building and rewarding personal allies.

Almost five years ago, Andrew Leslie wrote his Report on Transformation, which argued for "more teeth and less tail." Clearly, this was not popular with many within NDHQ leadership, who saw their many perks at risk. Leslie quickly became persona non grata, especially with a Conservative government at the time that broached no criticism of its defence narrative, and that was pouring money into National Defence, ostensibly because of Afghanistan, but which also led to a 38 per cent increase in headquarters staffing between 2006 and 2010.

The biggest de facto military base in Canada is no longer Petawawa, Halifax or Trenton. It is by far Ottawa, with more than 18,000 positions, of which over 5,000 are "managers." The thousands of senior officers and civilian managers in Ottawa make from a minimum of more than $100,000 to well over $400,000 per year, plus benefits. And while worker positions were cut between 2012 and 2014, there are now more managers than ever, many with no or few subordinates reporting to them.

This is not just about the billions spent on a surplus of management at HQ. The old phrase "Too many cooks spoil the stew" is an appropriate one, and one of the leading explanations for the inability of most procurement projects to be anything but unmitigated disasters. Massive duplication of effort, a management culture that accepts political interference without challenge - especially under the previous regime - inefficiencies of scale due to being just too big for the size of the actual, operational military, and little to no enforcement of conflict of interest rules, are all outcomes of the present state of both the civilian and military side of NDHQ.

Andrew Leslie is now in government and in a position to advocate for transformation. The defence minister is a former senior officer who did not partake in this incestuous HQ dance, but who remained true to the troops beneath him. If change is ever going to happen, it is now.

If the Liberals truly want to fix defence, they need to start at the top. Start vetting the senior military ranks of underperforming members. Cut the masses of civilian managers who have turned the organization into a bureaucratic nightmare for those doing the actual heavy lifting.

Start enforcing conflict of interest rules.

Make accountability more than a hollow buzzword. And most importantly, do not listen to the advice of the vested interests who have created this system, and who will continue to benefit if yet another government gives them free rein to spend our tax dollars with abandon.

John Dacombe recently retired home to Vancouver Island after over 21 years in the regular Canadian Forces and another five-plus in the National Defence civilian bureaucracy. More than half of that was spent in National Defence Headquarters (NDHQ). 
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From a recent conversation I had with a prior co-worker when I was there it is sounding right.  They now have two additional levels of management and my contact now has less than half the work hours they use to as work has been shifted to these "managers" that are paid double the amount.  Seems the concept is to replace the workers with higher paid managers to do the same work. 

Didn't see that kind of bloat in the areas I worked when I was there but apparently it just keeps getting worse.
 
Sounds like no one wants to demote someone because their position is no longer required, that is bad management, and bad leadership IMO
 
CountDC said:
From a recent conversation I had with a prior co-worker when I was there it is sounding right.  They now have two additional levels of management and my contact now has less than half the work hours they use to as work has been shifted to these "managers" that are paid double the amount.  Seems the concept is to replace the workers with higher paid managers to do the same work. 

Didn't see that kind of bloat in the areas I worked when I was there but apparently it just keeps getting worse.
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We been doing that for years!  Many HQs that existed before the 90s have Capts doing jobs that clerk used to handle.  In the 90s military witch hunts, we had a brew up about clerks doing interior economy jobs such canteen, coffee funds, etc.  Something along the lines of HQ officers treating NCMs as slaves and other BS. 
 
Well I was a clerk working at a HQ in the 90's and it certainly wasn't like that there so I guess it was only certain ones that were so lucky. 

Many of those HQs that now have the Capts doing the jobs is because they underwent a massive cut to positions in the 90's and lost most of the support staff.  The HQ I was at went from slightly over 250 staff down to I think it was 97 staff. Many of the senior officers, NCM and civilian positions were cut as it was felt the junior officers could do the dirty work while still bringing some clout as an officer when dealing with the lower HQs.

I don't agree with the thought but I do understand what they were attempting.  I would have went with Capts overseeing a larger sect with a Sgt and a few junior ranks doing the work. For Example G1 - Capt, G1-2 Sgt and then all the parts of G1 - MCpls/Cpls.

I see now that most have increased again but it appears to be at the top end instead of the bottom.
 
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