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Farewell to Canadian Armour

newflyfisher

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Just spotted this in the Merx which is the system the government uses to buy and sell services/goods. This link will take you to the disposal of the Leopard tanks, M113s, etc...
Guess that ends all debate about whether or not they should keep them.

http://www.merx.com/English/Supplier_Menu.Asp?WCI=Form&WCE=Show&XID=434&State=7

Looks like General Jeffries got his way...
 
sorry, the link broke. so here is the contract offering on the armour and other weapons systems being offloaded by the Army:

Market and Sell Surplus Military Armament, Ammunition and Equipement
 
Reference Number PW-$$ZH-109-12386  
Source ID FD.DP.QC.10077.C2
Solicitation Number EP243-020059/B  
Published 19/11/2004  
Revised 19/01/2005  
Closing 15/02/2005  02:00 PM Eastern Standard Time EST  
Associated Components Yes  
Category Custodial Operations and Related Services  
Tender Type Notice of Proposed Procurement (NPP)  
Region of Delivery NEWFOUNDLAND PRINCE EDWARD ISLAND NOVA SCOTIA NEW BRUNSWICK QUEBEC NATIONAL CAPITAL REGION ONTARIO MANITOBA SASKATCHEWAN ALBERTA BRITISH COLUMBIA YUKON NORTHWEST TERRITORIES NUNAVUT FOREIGN  
Region of Opportunity  
Agreement Type Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)  
Solicitation Method

Estimated Value  
Organization Name
Travaux publics et services gouvernementaux Canada

GSINS K1 Custodial Services  

Trade Agreement: Agreement on Internal Trade (AIT)
Tendering Procedures: All interested suppliers may submit a bid
Attachment: None
Competitive Procurement Strategy: Lowest/Lower Bid
Comprehensive Land Claim Agreement: No
Nature of Requirements:
MARKETING AND SELLING OF SURPLUS
MILITARY ARMAMENT, AMMUNITION AND EQUIPMENT

"This requirement is subject to the Controlled Goods Regulations
(CGR).  This bid package does not contain controlled goods"
The Department of National Defence requires the services of
Contractors to market and sell Surplus military armament,
ammunition and equipment (hereinafter called "Surplus Assets")
in a manner that maximizes financial benefits to DND and Canada
on a commission percentage basis.  The objectives are to, obtain
maximum return from the sale of Surplus Assets, eliminate the
requirement for the Crown to actively market the Surplus Assets
and ensure these are sold in a responsible manner primarily to
acceptable foreign governments.
Services will be required for a period commencing from Contract
date for a period of four years with an irrevocable option on
the part of Canada to extend the period of any resultant
contract by up to two additional one year periods

CURRENT REQUIREMENTS
The exact number and types of Military Armament, Ammunition and
Equipment that will eventually be made available on Reports of
Surplus (RoS), originated by DND for sale during the period
of this Contract cannot be accurately determined at this time.
However, the following is a current list of assets that have
been declared surplus and are available for immediate sale:
QTY Description - all items below include spares Commodity Group
382 Heavy Machine Guns (HMG) .50 calibre, with Quick-Change
Barrel 1
112 Recoilless Rifles, 106 mm 3
49 Armoured Vehicle General Purpose (AVGP) Cougar 4
489 Armoured Personnel Carriers (APC's), several variants of the
M113 Family of Vehicles 4
33 Leopard C2 Tanks 5
11 Leopard Turrets 5
17 M109A4 Self Propelled Howitzer 2
46,500 Cartridge, 76mm (various types) 7
33,904 Cartridge, 35mm (various types) 7
361 AIM-9M-6/7 Sidewinder missiles 10
10 Fire Control Unit, LLAD Skyguard MK II Towed 2
20 35 mm Gun, Air Defence Artillery, Towed 2

As-and-When Requested Requirements
In addition to these initial assets, the following groups as
identified below, include examples of Surplus Assets that may be
declared to the Contractor, as they become available.  It should
be noted that the availability of additional assets would be
dependent upon the extent of the retirement of military
armament, ammunition and equipment systems.  The military
armament, ammunition and equipment contained in the groups is
not currently declared surplus, but is included to inform
prospective bidders of examples of the types of military
armament, ammunition and equipment assets, which may eventually
be declared surplus. The surplus asset(s) may include associated
spare parts or components:

Commodity Group 1 - Small Arms and Light Weapons  - includes
items such as pistols, rifles, shotguns, and machine guns up to
and including 12.7mm (.50 calibre) and grenade launchers up to
40mm.
Commodity Group 2 - Artillery, Air Defence, and Mortar Systems -
includes items such as the following:C1 and C3 Light Towed
Howitzers, 105mm; LG-1 Light Towed Howitzer, 105mm; M109
Self-Propelled Howitzer, 155mm; Air Defence Twin Gun, 35mm;
Mortar, 81mm; and, Mortar, 60mm.
Commodity Group 3 - Anti-Armour Systems - includes one-man
portable and crew-served weapons such as: Javelin Anti-Armour
Missile System; Eryx Anti-Armour Missile System; Carl Gustav
Recoilless Rifle, 84mm; and, M72 Anti-Armour Rocket Launcher,
66mm.

Commodity Group 4 - Armoured Vehicles - such as: M113 Family of
Vehicles; Armoured Vehicle General Purpose (AVGP)  - Bison,
Cougar, Grizzly and Husky; and, Turrets for AVGP Cougar and
Grizzly.
Commodity Group 5 - Main Battle Tanks - such as: Leopard Main
Battle Tank and variants.
Commodity Group 6 - Surveillance Systems - such as:
Surveillance Radar; Recognition Trainer, Optical and Thermal
Imagery.
Commodity Group 7 - Ammunition (Land, low value) - such as:
35mm ammunition, 84mm ammunition, 38 mm projectiles (various
types).

Commodity Group 8 - Ammunition (Land, high value) - such as:
ERXY missiles, Javelin missiles, Light Anti-Tank Weapon system
M72.

Commodity Group 9 - Ammunition (Air, low value) - such as:  Fin
Assy BSU-49/B for Mk82 Bomb, 2.75" Flechette Warheads, bombs,
and pyrotechnic devices
Commodity Group 10 - Ammunition (Air and Maritime, high value) -
such as:  AIM-7 Sparrow missile, AIM-9 Sidewinder missile,
RIM-7 M/P Seasparrow missle.

Spares may be included in the above, if available

BASIS OF SELECTION
The lowest commission percentage responsive bid per commodity
group will be recommended for award of the contract for that
specific commodity.  There will be one contract per commodity
regardless if the same bidder wins more than one commodity
group.  In the event that two proposals are submitted with the
same commission percentage for the same commodity group, the
selection will be given to the Bidder who obtained the highest
score in the point rated evaluation.
For evaluation purposes only, the total price shall be
established as specified in 3.0 - Financial Evaluation.
To be considered responsive, a proposal  must:
(a) be signed;
(b) achieve the minimum passing mark for each criteria; and,
(c) obtain the specified minimum score of 70% of the points for
each group of criteria, and an overall score of 75% of the
point rating specified in section 3.2 herein.  The rating is
performed on a scale of 800 points.
Proposals not meeting (a), (b) or (c) above will be given no
further consideration
CONTRACTING AUTHORITY:
Margherita Finn
Public Works and Government Services Canada
Science and Professional Services Procurement Directorate
Services Commodity Procurement and Contract Management Sector
Acquisitions Branch
Professional Services Procurement Directorate, "ZH" Division
Place du Portage, Phase III, 10C1 Telephone:   (819) 956-1014
11 Laurier Street   Fax:   (819) 956-9235
Hull, Québec  K1A 0S5 E-mail address:
margherita.finn@pwgsc.gc.ca
The PWGSC office provides procurement services to the public in
both official languages.
Delivery Date Required:
The Crown retains the right to negotiate with suppliers on any
procurement.

Documents may be submitted in either official language of Canada.

- Finn, Margherita
11C1, Phase III
Place du Portage
11 Laurier St. / 11, rue Laurier
Gatineau, Québec K1A 0S5
(819) 956-1014
 
I bet those .50's come back if they are in working condition for mounting on the G Wagons.   3VP still has their's.
 
petition to bring back the .50cal begins.... now. :salute:
 
like I said 3VP still has their's as does the navy. I think Lessons learned from Afganistan and Iraq will re-establish them AGAIN in the CF.
 
By the numbers stated, I would suspect that these Items are all BER'd (Beyond Economical Repair) and would be too expensive to be used.   However, I find it odd that they are being disposed of in this fashion, where they could have been shipped to various sites in Canada for use as Monuments.   I have been trying for over six years to get some condemned .50 and C-5 MGs for our monuments and met with no success......now they are going to the public?   ???

GW
 
they proable want to trade that stuff in for a complete Stryker Brigade from Mattel's toys section
 
We shouldn't knock the Stryker Bges. I have been reading they are doing very well in Iraq. The only problem holding up the 105, is the auto loader. Theirs also only have a pop gun on. Damn we did tank tactics in Cougars for yrs.
 
No, but the the Strykers do not have all the capabilities of the Leopard MBT's.

Where did this list come from? Is it finalized?
 
Recce41 said:
......... Damn we did tank tactics in Cougars for yrs.

I witnessed that; and I also witnessed that very poor Tank Tactics were being learned by using the Cougar.  Example:

RV '85  Shuffield.  Personnel from Canada's Armour Regiments rotated through C Sqn Tanks (RCD) and had the oportunity to use real tanks to demonstrate their knowledge and do Live Battle Runs.  When you see a troop of four tanks doing tactics basically parked fender to fender, and not speading out over a kilometer, taking bounds of 500 m, you realize that the Cougar failed miserably as a Tank Trainer.

GW
 
The MGS is not a MBT. It is a DFV, they are two different vehs. We have to get away from the Cold War train of though. Yes a tracked light tank would have been better. But we now have the MGS. More we bitch, the more no doctine is written. It took us 3 yrs to finish the TTPs for Recce. It started when StratO was there a yr after us, the someone else, now I hope finished with the last person in Recce Standards. Y, because all people did was bitch TANK<TANK<TANK.
Yes George I know, about RVs. Remember I was there too. But the Cougar has been deployed, underfire from 92-99 ( Somalia and Bosnia). I know about this. I was in one that got it, in 94 then in 98. I never seen a C1 or C2 shot at.
I also have read M1s are not so safe ether.
But all said, I maybe able to pickup a 50c for reenactment.
 
I'm not sure "sucking it up" is necessarily the way to go.  If by arguing loudly now will potentially save lives in the future then why not.
 
Just so I understand, is NDHQ an accomplice in de-tanking the CF or is this something they've been fighting?

If find it hard to comprehend that they can budget working teams for years to study things like JSS and CADRE designs (no offence to ex-Dragoon), but just as American/Israeli experience demonstrates the absolute need for an MBT as a mobile pillbox in urban operations, we're dumping ours.

Many thanks for any insights that can be shared....



Matthew.    ???
 
I don't believe anyone can provide much insite into NDHQ.  I recently read where there were close to 5,000 uniformed uniformed personel at NDHQ the majority of whom are officers, if true what are they all doing. Maybe if some were returned to operational units they wouldn't be understrength, moreover with the funds saved on wages & paper shuffling in Ottawa could go to the sharp end for a change. 
 
If find it hard to comprehend that they can budget working teams for years to study things like JSS and CADRE designs (no offence to ex-Dragoon),

None taken...but if you ever looked at my posts I have never once supported getting rid of a much need army capability. Can some of the army types say the same about naval needs?
 
Tanks are required to take ground from a dug in and supported enemy.  End of story
 
So let me get this straight...On the MGS everything works really really well, except the thing that loads the gun! Fantastic...Isn't that like saying "Hey look at my new car...Everything is great except for the engine...?!" ::)

Slim
 
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