Fitness for Operational Requirements of CAF Employment ( FORCE )

[PMedMoe]

Celticgirl, if you look at his posting history, he's going in as an NCM.

 

[Celticgirl]

Celticgirl, if you look at his posting history, he's going in as an NCM.

Ah, ok. Well, perhaps things have changed NCMS, too. Not sure why an officer at a CFRC would tell him that otherwise.

:st.patty:

 

[PMedMoe]

Ah, ok. Well, perhaps things have changed NCMS, too. Not sure why an officer at a CFRC would tell him that otherwise.

If you look at the link I provided, the difference between under 35 and over 35 is that under 35 you must pass the Threshold Fitness Standard to go to WPC.  Over 35 can go right to WPC.  So the officer wasn't totally wrong.  He had the age right. 

 

[Ascendant]

Disclaimer: I'm not even in the military yet (ROTP hopeful), and really have no idea what I'm talking about, but here I go...

From reading all the (and there are a lot of them) "OMG PT test" and "Basic Training!!! What to do!!!" and seeing what the more experienced guys and girls have had to say, I've come away with this simple calculation for overall success: Give 100% + Have a positive attitude + Listen x Every day = Success.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't you somewhat prepared for the PT test in the weeks when you're at Basic, or do you do it as soon as you get there?

If not, then fine, I can understand how some people might be worried about the push ups/sit ups part, but let's be honest, how hard is it to to get to 20 push ups in a row, especially if you're on the lighter side.

As for the 20m beep test: I've done it a couple times before and I think I achieved around level 6. (Maybe almost 7, but it was in 2006/7.) I've never done cardio in my life. Sure, I played hockey, but an a 30-45s shift =/= the beep test. Based off my own experiences with the test, my opinion is that even an untrained, but semi-fit individual could pass, assuming the really bust their you-know-what and leave the 20m saying to themselves: "I honestly could not have done any better than that." We all know most people lack the will to push themselves that far.

I haven't done any cardio since Feb. 2009, but if I end up at RMC, I'm sure I'll be able to find people to jog with.

My two biggest fears concerning basic, should I make it that far: 1) Losing a ton of weight and getting significantly weaker. 2) Getting injured. (Not that likely, but it would suck.)

 

[PMedMoe]

Good advice with the exception of this:

how hard is it to to get to 20 push ups in a row, especially if you're on the lighter side.

I've often had people say that after the PT test and it irks me to no end.  If I'm "on the lighter side", it means I probably have a smaller body build and therefore, less muscle with which to do the push ups.  Sure, if I'm small, but have arms like an ultimate fighter or a wrestler, then I'll agree the push ups may be easier, but as a general rule lighter=smaller body size=smaller muscles.

 

[Ascendant]

Good advice with the exception of this:
I've often had people say that after the PT test and it irks me to no end.  If I'm "on the lighter side", it means I probably have a smaller body build and therefore, less muscle with which to do the push ups.  Sure, if I'm small, but have arms like an ultimate fighter or a wrestler, then I'll agree the push ups may be easier, but as a general rule lighter=smaller body size=smaller muscles.

True. Given the point I was trying to illustrate, I didn't word that very well at all. Essentially, what I was trying to get across is that I would imagine a relatively active, 150 lb guy is most likely going to have an easier time hitting 20 push ups than a relatively active 215 lb guy, assuming they start from the same point.

Probably far too many other variables for that to ever hold true, though.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

To be honest it doesn't surprise me so many people fail the tests, I mean everyone wants to be thin and tiny nowadays...not active.  and even then...most people who do get into fitness, do so in long distance running type stuff...not strength training.

lot of people who get into strength training do so with no guidance!

One thing i'd like to see change is the actual PT done IN the military...seems all they can think of doing is running and ruckmarches...

 

[Ascendant]

^See massive thread in Physical Training section...

All the guidance anyone really needs can be found online, so I hate that excuse for not doing things properly.

 

[Choop]

I must point out that PSP staff are VERY particular with their testing.  I was removed from the shuttle run almost forcibly by PSP in the week 0 with a "Get off the f***ing course right f***ing NOW!!"  I'm still not sure why...  2 days later at the retest I ran a 7...  I have also heard RUMOURS (and I can't stress that enough) a RUMOUR had a Seargent fail the push-up portion.  He apparently couldn't get his arms down to the 90 degree angle required because his biceps were hitting his forearms.  He was physically incapable  because he was too muscular, despite the fact he could pop out 100 push-ups at a time...

 

[PegcityNavy]

Anyone else going to BMOQ or BMQ using the JTF2 entry fitness guidelines as a baseline for their training, i realize it might be overkill but i figure its better to be over prepared than under.

 

[owa]

My two biggest fears concerning basic, should I make it that far: 1) Losing a ton of weight and getting significantly weaker.

There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long.

Baisically nurish your body well (change your diet so that you lose weight in a healthy way -- slowly and gradually) while maintaining some sort of physical fitness regiment and you won't have this problem.  I mean, there will come a point where you will notice a loss of strength but for things like pushups, pullups, situps and running, you will likely notice gains.  This won't necessarily be because of muscle gain, but the loss of fat should help you push more and pull more of your own weight simply because your body is accustomed to a higher weight.  As for running, you'll feel a bit lighter and it'll be easier on your joints and legs.

Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about.

You'll probably look better too...  Think of when body builders go into a cutting stage.  It probably won't be that dramatic, but it will be a similar principle.

Injury is the biggest concern and I have no advice for that haha.  Just know your limits and stop accordingly.  Push yourself sometimes, but give yourself time to rest.

 

[Ascendant]

There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long.

Baisically nurish your body well (change your diet so that you lose weight in a healthy way -- slowly and gradually) while maintaining some sort of physical fitness regiment and you won't have this problem.  I mean, there will come a point where you will notice a loss of strength but for things like pushups, pullups, situps and running, you will likely notice gains.  This won't necessarily be because of muscle gain, but the loss of fat should help you push more and pull more of your own weight simply because your body is accustomed to a higher weight.  As for running, you'll feel a bit lighter and it'll be easier on your joints and legs.

Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about.

You'll probably look better too...  Think of when body builders go into a cutting stage.  It probably won't be that dramatic, but it will be a similar principle.

Injury is the biggest concern and I have no advice for that haha.  Just know your limits and stop accordingly.  Push yourself sometimes, but give yourself time to rest.

Just seeing this now.

I'm no longer going the military route, but losing weight in any manner will affect strength levels. Yes, strength endurance may be increased, but limit strength will suffer greatly. It's not just about muscle size, but also your CNS. Just because you may be used to moving more weight doesn't mean the strength endurance will be there.

If you're losing any weight, you won't just be losing fat.

Looking better was never a concern. Performance was.

 

[owa]

Just seeing this now.

I'm no longer going the military route, but losing weight in any manner will affect strength levels. Yes, strength endurance may be increased, but limit strength will suffer greatly. It's not just about muscle size, but also your CNS. Just because you may be used to moving more weight doesn't mean the strength endurance will be there.

If you're losing any weight, you won't just be losing fat.

Looking better was never a concern. Performance was.

That's why I said "Won't hold true forever or for everyone, but it isn't something to really worry about."

But there is a period where you'll notice that you can do more pushups and pullups and where running becomes easier.  You will even out as you lose weight, but I made it clear that it would.  My main point was this:  Generally when you start to shed weight you'll notice that you can do more things like pushups and pullups...  Simply because your muscle mass won't degrade all that quickly and even a 5 pound difference can help a lot in these things.  If you shed weight, eat healthy, and maintain a physical training regime you'll perform better, you'll look better (even if you don't want to look better, it is still a positive outcome of all these things haha), and you'll help avoid injuries.  Not entirely sure what you disagree with. ???

Like I said, you won't get significantly weaker so long as you nurish your body properly.

In the original post I said, "There are so many things that can be said about this, but it would get really long."

I was being quite broad in my explanation because I don't really feel like going in depth, but I'm pretty sure I covered my *** quite well.

It's easier said then done, but the basics are essentially true for everyone.  Eat well, lift your weights, do your cardio, sleep well, and everything will come together.  Fatties (well, not just fatties, but it's fun to say fatties) losing weight will notice declines in some of their strength, but they'll also notice that running, pushups and pullups become easier and they generally do more then they once did.  If you want to be stronger, you manage your routine so that you build muscle, but the fact is, you can bench two or three plates and still be very athletic, so losing fat doesn't mean you have to lose muscle.  You just have to find a balance.

I also wouldn't say strength will suffer greatly.  It will suffer greatly if you cut improperly, but it's possible to maintain some of your powerful lifts, or at the very least only lose a few pounds/reps off each.  My friend's heavy into weight lifting and he's cutting down from 220.  He's down close to 200 now and he hasn't noticed a huge drop.  He just had to balance his diet, cardio and strength training properly.

 

[Ascendant]

If you shed weight, eat healthy, and maintain a physical training regime you'll perform better, you'll look better

I think there's a lot of subjectivity there, on both counts.

Like I said, you won't get significantly weaker so long as you nurish your body properly.

That also depends, but generally, for soemone who is into training with a focus on strength, I disagree. If someone who is 5'9, 210 enters Basic with a 550 lb deadlift and a 475 lb squat, by the time they have finished, they will most likely be a) lighter and almost certainly b) significantly weaker.

Proper nourishment is also a factor that can vary greatly from person to person.

If you want to be stronger, you manage your routine so that you build muscle, but the fact is, you can bench two or three plates and still be very athletic, so losing fat doesn't mean you have to lose muscle.  You just have to find a balance.

Strength/Getting strong isn't just about "building muscle". CNS adaption also plays a very large role.

In order to lose any weight at all, you have to be eating in a caloric deficit. When you do start losing weight, you aren't just losing fat. Your body is not 100% efficient in that manner. You can minimize the loss of muscle, but if you are losing weight, you are losing muscle mass.

 

[Biggoals2bdone]

Kratos you're right, basic does not lend itself well to maintaining strength if you have numbers above 300lbs, since you will pretty much do little to strength training during the whole time.

Also you're right I went in at 210, and lost 15lbs, and thats even with trying to stuff myself whenever I could.

you're numbers will drop thats pretty much inevitable.

and to the poster who commented on losing weight properly...kratos wasn't saying that THAT was his goal...he was saying he was worried (aka NOT wanting to) lose weight and get weaker. Like i've said in general I feel the military kind of frowns upon real strength training.

and yes strength training (the real kind...not talking men's health stuff here) involves more then just muscular adaptation, there's CNS adapations, hence why weightlifters and powerlifters keep getting stronger at the same weight.

 

[PMedMoe]

Don't we have enough threads about weight training/running/nutrition/etc without cluttering up a thread about the PT test at CFLRS? 

 

[owa]

Kratos you're right, basic does not lend itself well to maintaining strength if you have numbers above 300lbs, since you will pretty much do little to strength training during the whole time.

Also you're right I went in at 210, and lost 15lbs, and thats even with trying to stuff myself whenever I could.

you're numbers will drop thats pretty much inevitable.

and to the poster who commented on losing weight properly...kratos wasn't saying that THAT was his goal...he was saying he was worried (aka NOT wanting to) lose weight and get weaker. Like i've said in general I feel the military kind of frowns upon real strength training.

and yes strength training (the real kind...not talking men's health stuff here) involves more then just muscular adaptation, there's CNS adapations, hence why weightlifters and powerlifters keep getting stronger at the same weight.

All I said was that it's possible to maintain strength.

I also said there were limits to this, and I didn't suggest you would maintain power lifting strength (I was clear about that).

I did say it's possible to shed weight and maintain strength though.  But I also validated this by saying you need to have the proper nurishment and training regiment.  I never said Basic Training were any of those things -- basic is good for getting you in basic training shape; not necessarily anything else.

 

[OldSolduer]

Don't we have enough threads about weight training/running/nutrition/etc without cluttering up a thread about the PT test at CFLRS?

everyone's an expert Moe.  ;D

 

[PMedMoe]

everyone's an expert Moe.  ;D

I know, I'm just proposing they be an "expert" in threads already established for those subjects. 

 

[owa]

I know, I'm just proposing they be an "expert" in threads already established for those subjects. 

Ah sorry, didn't see your post until after I responded.  I'll leave'er be then haha.