FWSAR (CC130H, Buffalo, C27J, V22): Status & Possibilities

[The Bread Guy]

An update:  potential bidders can ask for a video to learn more - see attached bid document amendment ....

.... As requested by Industry, the FWSAR PMO has produced an educational video that is intended to provide a better understanding of the current daily operations at a primary FWSAR unit in Canada. This 20-minute video, called "A Day in the Life of a FWSAR Crew" was filmed at 8 Wing Trenton, Ontario, utilizing a CC130H aircraft, which is the only aircraft available at the 8 Wing Trenton to perform fixed wing SAR operations. The video should be used in conjunction with other documentation provided to Industry to obtain a more comprehensive understanding of the fixed wing SAR operations in Canada ....

FWSAR WEBSITE
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/svtvn-rscfw-eng.html

FWSAR INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT RULES
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/rei-ier-eng.html

Let the industry engagement continue .....

 

[Retired and Broken]

An update:  potential bidders can ask for a video to learn more - see attached bid document amendment ....
FWSAR WEBSITE
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/svtvn-rscfw-eng.html

FWSAR INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT RULES
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/rei-ier-eng.html

Let the industry engagement continue .....

Thanks for all the updates. As a SAR guy this is exciting stuff. I am hoping they don't drop the ball on FWSAR like they did with many aspects of the Cormorant (which I love btw). Oh, and if any industry or military decision makers are reading this, we would like whatever it is in yellow...bright beautiful yellow!

 

[Retired and Broken]

For SAR, that thing would rock! I can't imagine a better platform to replace the Buffalos.

I've got to say, as the guy underneath working on patients I am opposed to the V-22. We have major issues with the downwash of a Cormorant as it is(dropping trees on Sar Techs and victims, flipping stokes etc) and the Osprey appears to be much worse. I am curious to see what 'helo' applications the V-22 could be used in, and is capable of, if any. (hoisting, water work etc.)  All that aside, I love the looks of that thing!

 

[Gorgo]

... and here is what it might look like:

That, my friend, looks seriously awesome.  ;D

Now, how the hell are we going to persuade the Land of Oz to buy some of these beauties?

EDIT:  But taking into account what HWYH said in the previous post, dealing with some major downdrafts from two turboprop engines would be a problem.

Then again, wouldn't it be possible to hover a lot higher than a Cormorant hovers?  Or is that just as unsafe?

 

[Good2Golf]

I've got to say, as the guy underneath working on patients I am opposed to the V-22. We have major issues with the downwash of a Cormorant as it is(dropping trees on Sar Techs and victims, flipping stokes etc) and the Osprey appears to be much worse. I am curious to see what 'helo' applications the V-22 could be used in, and is capable of, if any. (hoisting, water work etc.)  All that aside, I love the looks of that thing!

It would be a mistake to assume regular helicopter-mode usage.  It would be first and foremost a 'fast' mover getting on scene, and vertical mode used in extremis, so the slightly higher downwash (second-hand opinion based on first-hand feedback from AFSOC PJs) compared to the Cormorant platform would be considered acceptable, were Primary RWSAR not responsive enough to a specific situation.

Regards
G2G

 

[Retired and Broken]

"It would be a mistake to assume regular helicopter-mode usage."

Agreed. Which is why I am curious to what the proposed vertical applications entail.

"It would be first and foremost a 'fast' mover getting on scene, and vertical mode used in extremis,"

What would the vertical mode in extremis entail? Landing/take off only? Hoisting?

"so the slightly higher downwash (second-hand opinion based on first-hand feedback from AFSOC PJs) compared to the Cormorant platform would be considered acceptable"

I guess it depends on who is doing the considering...


Good points G2G, I am looking forward to hearing about the proposed V-22 applications in domestic SAR. Who knows, maybe I'll even become a fan.

 

[Good2Golf]

I guess it depends on who is doing the considering...

The PJs and other operators.  Maybe CF SAR Techs would think differently, not sure?

My discussion with guys who've worked 53s, 47s, 60s, 22s, etc... is that they all have their own quirks and characteristics.  They mention that the 22 actually has a bit of a calm area directly beneath the centre hatch when fast roping, spy-rigging and recovering.


Regards
G2G

 

[The Bread Guy]

An update:  potential bidders can ask for a video to learn more - see attached bid document amendment ....

.... As requested by Industry, the FWSAR PMO has produced an educational video that is intended to provide a better understanding of the current daily operations at a primary FWSAR unit in Canada. This 20-minute video, called "A Day in the Life of a FWSAR Crew" was filmed at 8 Wing Trenton, Ontario, utilizing a CC130H aircraft, which is the only aircraft available at the 8 Wing Trenton to perform fixed wing SAR operations. The video should be used in conjunction with other documentation provided to Industry to obtain a more comprehensive understanding of the fixed wing SAR operations in Canada ....

FWSAR WEBSITE
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/svtvn-rscfw-eng.html

FWSAR INDUSTRY ENGAGEMENT RULES
http://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/app-acq/stamgp-lamsmp/rei-ier-eng.html

Let the industry engagement continue .....

The latest - expect a Request for Proposals in "late summer 2013" - a bit more in this latest bid document update here (Google Docs).

 

[Colin Parkinson]

US firm to take over Duke of Cambridge's helicopter fleet

The Bristow Group, an American company, is expected to be unveiled on Tuesday as the winner of the multi-billion pound contract to take over the service from 2015.

The anticipated announcement to the London stock exchange ends 70 years of search and rescue operations by the RAF and Royal Navy, who have saved thousands of lives both at sea and off mountain tops.

The contract, which is due to last from 2015 until 2026, is thought to be worth more than £3bn.

It is understood the firm, headquartered in Texas, has plans to replace ageing RAF and Royal Navy Sea King helicopters with modern Sikorsky S-92s and AgustaWestland 189s.

The Ministry of Defence’s distinctive fleet of yellow Sea King helicopters, which the Duke flies as a search-and-rescue pilot, were already due to be retired by March 2016.



Reports on Monday night suggested that as a result the government had concluded that search and rescue should therefore be contracted out.

The technology is at such an advanced stage that the US State Department had to give its approval for it to be used in Britain, Sky News reported.

Sole responsibility for Britain’s search and rescue was transferred to the Department for Transport that began a procurement process for the private sector to provide civilian crews on a 10-year contract.

When the privatisation was announced in 2011, The Daily Telegraph reported that the Duke privately lobbied David Cameron to save the service.

At the time aides refused to confirm whether the Duke had lobbied the Prime Minister on the future of the Search and Rescue Force.

A Clarence House spokesman referred inquiries to the MoD on Monday night.

A Department for Transport spokesman said: "We are due to make an announcement soon." Spokesmen for the MoD and the company were unavailable.

Bristow, which already provides transport services in Britain, to ferry oil-rig workers to and from North Sea platforms, also operates in parts of Europe, Asia, North America, Australia and Africa.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/9953757/US-firm-to-take-over-Duke-of-Cambridges-helicopter-fleet.html

 

[Gorgo]

Oh, my God!  That is utterly insane!  Actually putting a vital service like SAR into civilian hands?!

Hope to God it doesn't happen up here!

 

[Colin Parkinson]

In keeping with how they done things for awhile, RNLI, mostly volunteer. Nav aids, Trinity House, sort of a Crown Corp. Even here the closure of Kits CCG base is a sign of divesting inshore SAR and I believe they even had a civilian SAR helo on contract in Prince Rupert for awhile back in the 90's

 

[Kirkhill]

Oh, my God!  That is utterly insane!  Actually putting a vital service like SAR into civilian hands?!

Hope to God it doesn't happen up here!

Fred,Falcksupplies fire and ambulance services in many countries in the world, including workers' paradises like Denmark and Germany.

Emergency services are not necessarily the purview of civil servants.

 

[Gorgo]

True.  And yes, I did over-react . . . but I'm afraid that once civilian companies - who are normally concerned about how much money they make - get control of something vital like that, things will be missed and lives would be put at greater risk.

I just hope this will still be heavily watched over by the British government.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Unlikely, thing will truck along, then at some point cost cutting will take place, some bad incident happens that can be connected to cost cutting, finger pointing starts, funds allocated, a few people retire, services restored for the time being. Repeat as required.

 

[dapaterson]

Unlikely, thing will truck along, then at some point cost cutting will take place, some bad incident happens that can be connected to cost cutting, finger pointing starts, funds allocated, a few people retire, services restored for the time being. Repeat as required.

Which also happens when the military is responsible for SAR.  For example, in Labrador.

 

[The Bread Guy]

The latest - potential bidders get more time to sort out who fixes what - from the attached bid document update....

.... The purpose of this document is to provide the FWSAR Secretariat’s conceptual view on the anticipated split of responsibilities between the Government of Canada and the selected Contractor. It is anticipated that the new FWSAR fleet will incur damage during the course of normal operations. The damage will be characterized either as inherent (anything considered as the Contractor’s responsibility), or as non-inherent (anything that could be attributable to DND).  The selected Contractor will be requested to minimize downtime and keep sufficient spare parts to cover any potential damage, including non-inherent damage. Early industry feedback is being sought on the concept of inherency by 12 April 2013 ....

 

[Kirkhill]

No problem.

Aircraft damaged.
Contractor repairs.
We'll sort out who pays what bill later......

What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Edward Campbell]

The Auditor General's Spring 2013 Report is our, one chapter deals with SAR.

 

[GAP]

Part way through it and all I can say is they are "being damned by faint praise"......what a clusterf#%k...........

 

[Retired and Broken]

A lot of valid points in that report. Some of the effects are already being seen. 424 sqn is going to a 1200-2000hrs standby posture with 'weekends' happening during the week.