G Wagon C&R

[42A]

Where to command this veh? I have tried to command the veh from both the front and rear seat and here is my 2 cents worth.

The veh must be commanded from the front seat.  Why do you ask simple the CC or Ptl Cmdr has too much going on at any time to effectly be able to fight the veh and command the veh and or the patrol.  There are some items that must be addressed however.

In the MO typically the 3rd person in a iltis was just a GIB (Guy in Back) and likely the most Jr person in the crew, just trying to keep awake on exercise.  We must train the OBS/Gunner as the 2ic of the veh who can take over when the CC is out of the veh.  All you CC out there must get used to the fact that your OBS will have better "eyes on" than you, that does not mean that you cannot get out of your seat and hop up on the hood to confirm. 

As I see it for myself anyway the ability to train our observer to watch for the EN and select good positions are skills that we must teach them.  I think that this will server a couple of purposes, the OBS will no longer spend the exercise trying to keep awake and more importantly it will give them a taste of command and tatical awareness.  As for the CC it will force us to train our soliders better.

One final thought, how about installing a CI in the capola so the OBS can have the whole tatical picture.

I for one look forward to getting the G Wagons sooner rather than later. 

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Why do you ask simple the CC or Ptl Cmdr has too much going on at any time to effectly be able to fight the veh and command the veh and or the patrol.  

We've always been able to handle the workload before. Don't see much change now.

 

[DG-41]

Where to CC is simple - the highest point on the vehicle. All you should be exposing is the top of your touque and two beady little eyeballs.

The job of dismounting to carry out the various held-up drills is for JAFFO, not the CC (unless the crew is down to 2 people and there's no alternative)

I used to CC Ilis Recce from the back seat, standing, because it was easier to hold onto the roll bar from behind while moving cross country that to lean back against it. JAFFO could sit up front where it was easier to mount and dismount.

Has anybody got any pointers to pictures of the Canadian Recce G-Wagon?

DG

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Has it been deided yet on who will be in the G turret?  it makes sense for the Crew Commander to be in the turret.  They need the most eyes on the terrain so they can properly command their vehicles (Like how in Armoured, the Crew Commander takes the top of the turret to see the landscape)

Last I heard, no final decision was made on exactly who is supposed to be up there.  Just wondering if anything has changed since.

 

[KevinB]

Currently the Infantry have the modified C&R's - we use a Gunner - the commander is in the right front passenger seat.

The Gunners job is local defence -- that is NOT the commanders role.

 

[paracowboy]

Has it been deided yet on who will be in the G turret?    it makes sense for the Crew Commander to be in the turret.  

It makes more sense for the machinegunner to be in the turret.

 

[George Wallace]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21308/post-246508.html#msg246508

This thread covers this discussion in great detail.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

  It makes more sense for the machinegunner to be in the turret.

But in an armoured recce crew, there is no "machine gunner"
in the turret,
There is the driver, the RadOp and the Crew Commander.  I can see the Radop being the one on the MG, but with his/her job of having to get out and clear laterals all the time...it's going to be a heck of a pain the @ss getting in and out of that turret over and over.

 

[Lost_Warrior]

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21308/post-246508.html#msg246508

This thread covers this discussion in great detail.

I have been following that thread since it was created.  There was no end resolution.  I wanted to find out if there was any decision made without having to get flack for bringing up old threads..

 

[George Wallace]

If you have something to contribute to an old thread, it is acceptable to resurrect it; as opposed to creating an new one, a la all those JTF 2 threads.  What people get upset about, is when someone resurrects a long forgotten thread to add a one word/liner comment like: "Kool!"

 

[Lost_Warrior]

Ok, so back to my initial question.

Has anything been decided for the recce crews?

Our unit is supposed to be getting the G-Wagon in a couple of months, and no one at the unit seems to know.

 

[DG-41]

My understanding is that the 6A taught at the school this summer had the crew commander in the hatch.

DG

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Ok, so back to my initial question.

Has anything been decided for the recce crews?

Our unit is supposed to be getting the G-Wagon in a couple of months, and no one at the unit seems to know.

1) No. Not to my knowledge. Besides recce is flexible, you'll do what fits at the time. Passenger seat in urban ops or up in the hatch watching the Fulda Gap.

2) Don't be holding your breathe. Initial roll out was to happen for us, getting 8 of our 16, in Jan 06. That's now been shoved back to March, with no guarantees it'll happen then.

 

[paracowboy]

But in an armoured recce crew, there is no "machine gunner"
in the turret,
There is the driver, the RadOp and the Crew Commander.    I can see the Radop being the one on the MG, but with his/her job of having to get out and clear laterals all the time...it's going to be a heck of a pain the @ss getting in and out of that turret over and over.

so, in an Armoured Recce crew in a gay-wagon, who's providing security? If there's nobody in the turret with a big gun, all you have is a buncha guys in an SUV.

Actually, pm me with the info, please. Let's not broadcast tactics. Thanks!

 

[KevinB]

FWIW as a 031 I'd be pushing for the Armoured Recce Dets to go 4 man...

 

[Lost_Warrior]

so, in an Armoured Recce crew in a gay-wagon, who's providing security? If there's nobody in the turret with a big gun, all you have is a buncha guys in an SUV.

From what I have done in the short time I have been in the army, no one in the crew is directly responsable for "security" of the vehicle or patrol.....but then again, we are using MilCots for recce...

You can't really stick your C7 out the window of one of them to provide any kind of effective vehicle security.

Maybe someone with more experience with the G-Wagon can tell you.

 

[KevinB]

Thanks - para and I have time in the Garbage Wagon...

The question was rhetorical.

 

[super_pookie]

From what I have done in the short time I have been in the army, no one in the crew is directly responsable for "security" of the vehicle or patrol.....but then again, we are using MilCots for recce...

You can't really stick your C7 out the window of one of them to provide any kind of effective vehicle security.

Maybe someone with more experience with the G-Wagon can tell you.

The window's dont roll down

 

[super_pookie]

From what I have done in the short time I have been in the army, no one in the crew is directly responsable for "security" of the vehicle or patrol.....but then again, we are using MilCots for recce...

You can't really stick your C7 out the window of one of them to provide any kind of effective vehicle security.

Maybe someone with more experience with the G-Wagon can tell you.

in the up armour variant

 

[Big Red]

You can't really stick your C7 out the window of one of them to provide any kind of effective vehicle security.

If you don't have a turret and the windows are not armoured that is probably what you *should* be doing to provide security.

If the doors and windows are armoured, crack the doors to provide security when you are still or approaching a threat, ie. slip roads or fast movers.