Gaelic irish warfare

[Edward Campbell]

Indeed .. we have been known to pick a fight whilst in the middle of an ongoing agro, but hopefully this doesn't sully the name of the Irishmen who proudly served during WW2, knowing the bigger picture was worth laying down the tricolor for a moment.

No, of course it doesn't.

The point I was trying to make earlier was that British colonization in Ireland was particularly cruel (think of Edward, the of the younger brother of Robert the Bruce, and his adventures in Ireland in the early 14th century) and inept. And it bred deep and enduring hatred which persisted into the 20th and, I suppose, the 21st centuries.

By the middle of the 19th century, during Wellington's government, the British began to consider their treatment of Ireland and the Irish. By the turn of the 20th century the "Irish question" dominated British politics and it (the preoccupation with Ireland), I have argued, led to both the worst single foreign policy blunder in 2,000 years of British history - the Entente cordiale (1904), and the destruction (circa 1930) of the Liberal Party in Britain.

But we, all of us, tend to personalize history to suit what our people, especially our families did, or didn't do.

 

[Scott]

You Heathens have it all wrong...

It's Dalwhinnie.

Or if you like single grain...Cameron Brigg, a good Fife grog.

 

[Old Sweat]

This is a bit off the track, but does illustrate a tendency for optimism, lost causes and belligerence on the part of the Irish.

Doctor David Shanahan from Carleton will be giving a talk titled "The Last Invasion of Canada" on the Fenian raids of 1866 and 1870 at 1900 hours on 25 October in Margaret Bourgeoise school in Merrickville. I have heard him speak on the Fenians before, and he is both knowledgeable and entertaining. If coming from the direction of Kemptville on County Road 43, when you arrive at the main intersection do not turn right to cross the Rideau Canal, but proceed straight ahead past the blockhouse. The school is across the street from the community centre which is just past the bend in the road. If coming from the north, after crossing the canal, turn right.

 

[sean m]

That should be interesting indeed. in term's of irish republicanism, there has seemed to be alot of financial and political support from America. Does anyone know if the British tried to put pressure on the American government to stop it. Today does anyone think that Irish republicanism is relevant, since it has had an impact on irish gaelic culture for around 100 years and more.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That should be interesting indeed. in term's of irish republicanism, there has seemed to be alot of financial and political support from America. Does anyone know if the British tried to put pressure on the American government to stop it. Today does anyone think that Irish republicanism is relevant, since it has had an impact on irish gaelic culture for around 100 years and more.

They likely did, but not overtly. I think if you dig deep enough into American Irish Catholics and their support of the IRA, you'll likely find a Kennedy or two involved. i.e. Senator Ted Kennedy. Just sayin' 

 

[AJFitzpatrick]

They likely did, but not overtly. I think if you dig deep enough into American Irish Catholics and their support of the IRA, you'll likely find a Kennedy or two involved. i.e. Senator Ted Kennedy. Just sayin' 

And as we drift further from the original question and in view of ETA's apparent suspension of armed conflict. Does anyone know if ETA got any of their money (and/or moral support) from the US ? (quite a few 'Basques-Americans ' in Nevada and Idaho).

 

[irish]

Today does anyone think that Irish republicanism is relevant, since it has had an impact on irish gaelic culture for around 100 years and more.

sean m
Do you mean within the Irish republic and/or the island of Ireland? I'm from the republic, so can only really answer from that perspective.
The spectrum that runs between Irish national pride, Irish nationalism and what I think you mean by Irish republicanism (IRA, INLA,etc.) is a tricky one to navigate and raw republicanism of this brand is a contentious area within the republic.
Firstly, this issue is rarely if ever talked about openly. Something akin to CF OPSEC is written into the dna of people in the republic and the phrase 'loose talk costs lives' is something I heard a lot growing up there. Significant republican funding was derived from various legal and not so legal means in the south so republicans were often treated in the same manner as gangsters - romanticized by those who had no dealings with them, hated by those who were subject to their bully-boy tactics and admired/feared by those who benefitted from their community efforts. I'm from an inner city area in Dublin and an auto-theft epidemic in the late 70s/early 80s was, quite frankly, well dealt with by IRA vigilante justice. However, here we introduce the usual slippery slope when the 'police' aren't well policed and I saw more than one decent person chased out of my housing development simply for picking the wrong fight after a few pints down the local.
Irish national pride runs deep in the south and people are very proud that we stood up again and again after taking it on the chin from the crown. This could frequently blur into overt nationalism during something as trivial as the rugby triple crown or something more significant, like the Bobby Sands/hunger strike moment in the 80s. However, this usually stopped just short of out and out republicanism. War had been on our shores for a long, long time and people knew only too well what the costs were. (I suggest renting the very good movie The Wind that Shakes The Barley or reading Sean O'Casey's Juno and the Paycock for a look at how recent rebellion and civil war fragmented families). In the south, I think we often looked away from the troubles in the North, reflecting on the sentiment, 'there, but for the grace of god go I'. The IRA seat of power had shifted from Dublin to the north in the 50s/60s I believe and with it the evolution of both cultures shifted onto their own respective courses. This was fairly well recognized in the south and many people also felt, as a result of this that we had no real right to comment. I think the vast majority of people in the south long for a peaceful island and, from my limited experiences in the north, I think this to be very true there also. After saying that, one doesn't have to look too far for a tiocfaidh ar la (our day will come) or saoirse (freedom) tattoo where I come from - mostly used to make oneself look tougher than one truly is. Young men fueled by testosterone quietly flirt with it for the same reasons young men buy big knives or pretend to be Tony Soprano - it's what young men do.
As this is a military forum, I'll offer my  :2c: from that perspective. I started my service in Ireland in the reserves (An Forsa Cosanta Aitiuil at the time) and I was in no longer than 2 hours when the company sergeant sat us down and very carefully explained that as members of the Irish Defence Forces we had more in common with Brits on the other side of the border than we did with IRA men. This was taken very seriously and the differences between a healthy nationalism and 'republicanism' were central to early indoctrination.
People in the south remember why we have the republic - we remember Kilmainham Gaol, we remember 1916 and we sing songs about the black n' tans and Michael Collins, just as we should. But we also remember the ways in which it tore the country apart and why so many of Eires sons and daughters had to leave.