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Getting the "government" We Deserve

My point, in less than eloquent prose, was that anarchy means anyone, at any time, can take or do anything they want without accountability.  Tyranny involves a high state of order that uses unnecessary force to maintain it.  Our southern neighbours favourite buzzword for Monarchy a few centuries ago, was "Tyranny", if I read all the pamphlets correctly..... :-\
 
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. the democracy we have now is doing just fine compared to tyranny or anarchy... Yes the proper definition of both are different but neither in the real world, would work. Sure we don't agree with everything our government does, but it could be much, much worse.
 
Happy Dominion Day everyone....

DavidWarrenOnline
ESSAYS ON OUR TIMES

SUNDAY SPECTATOR

June 26, 2005

Letter to Quebec

I wonder if anyone is home in Quebec? For a long time, if any were, I have wanted to write them a letter. Today, I've decided to just write it, and see if I get a response. It will be in English. Letters from English Canada are often in that language.

Let me begin by telling you what I don't want to say. I don't want to say, "I wuv you." Especially, visitors from Ontario have been telling you this, whenever they've felt you were getting uppity. They are like the unfortunate husband, who does not realize that his wife hates him. Imagine his surprise when she suddenly moves out. (Except, in Canada, wives don't move out. They have their husbands moved.)

I am speaking to you from a province that truly doesn't get it. We don't get that you've had enough. We don't get the degree to which you are tired, not only of the corruption, but of the sheer malice of the Liberal Party. They are getting about equally tired in the West. And according to the polls, we, in Ontario, have decided the Liberal Party must stay, for reasons of "national unity". In other words, the Liberals have become the separatist party of Ontario.

In other words, the Liberals have set things up with Ontario, so the only way to shake them off is by leaving the country. Canada's most talented people do that every day; now it becomes the turn of the provinces.

As you perhaps noticed, my analogy was incomplete. Ontario is in some sort of weird old Mormon or Arabian marriage, in which there are several wives. Were it not for the oil dowry that came with Alberta, we would have trouble paying for them all. That Alberta also, increasingly, wants out of the marriage should be no surprise to either of us: there is nothing in it for them, whatever. We just take their money, they get nothing in return, unless you count spousal abuse. The Liberals and our "national" (i.e. the Toronto) media dump all over Alberta. They use the word "Canadian" specifically to exclude them.

We give some of their money to you; and some of ours, too. A little less, perhaps, than the average Ontarian imagines, but anyone who thinks Quebec is a net contributor to Team Canada is out of his little mind. This is not a reason for you to delay separation, however. Look at the Slovaks, who hesitated to divorce the Czechs for that very reason: the Czechs were paying their bills. But they did finally leave, and are now well ahead. All they had to lose was the chip on their shoulder. Shed that, and you, too, might learn to earn your way.

Your problem will be the people who are leading you out of Confederation -- the Parti and Bloc Québécois. They are skunks. The Slovaks had the same problem, being led into the wilderness by Vladimir Meciar. He made them, briefly, the black hole of Europe. But then the Slovaks got their act together, and got rid of him. You may do likewise after five years or so of being governed by these aspirants to a one-party state.

Other Anglos will tell you that the PQ/BQ are racist. This is the opposite of the truth. They are leftwing welfare-statists, they have mouths full of multiculturalism, they have no religion, no chests. The identity of Quebec -- which was French, and Catholic, and admitted into Confederation as such -- is something that passes right through their heads. The "identity" they have is a language without a culture; just like the identity we have. And like the Liberals, they seek power as an end in itself.

This is politics today, or what it is reduced to in Canada and Europe: it has nothing to do with nation. "Democracy" has come to mean people voting to appropriate other people's money.

But you are nevertheless right to leave. A Quebec which is only a second national language, is a Quebec that is an administrative inconvenience. It is the same post-modern pap, translated from English into French. An independent Quebec will sooner realize that French inhibits exports, and be using English-only to trade with the States. But at least you will be making your own decisions.

I lied, I do love you. Not for what you are, but for what you were. Which is to say, in just the way I have come to love Canada.

David Warren
 
Fry said:
if it ain't broke, don't fix it. the democracy we have now is doing just fine compared to tyranny or anarchy... Yes the proper definition of both are different but neither in the real world, would work. Sure we don't agree with everything our government does, but it could be much, much worse.


How naive of you. You really think this is a democracy? Why, because you have a vote? Your vote means almost nothing with our first past the post system. We live in a elected dictatorship, where the will of the elected representatives is suppressed by the unelected in the PM's Office, through the party whip. A PM who wields more power within this country than POTUS does in his. We have a Supreme Court that makes laws, not upholds them. A partisan Senate that bends to the will of the governing party that gave them the seat. We have moved from a first world country, to somewhere between a second and third world, selling off our natural resources and technology, under the table, to China through Power Corporation. The same corporation that has had their hand in the making and breaking of every major politician in this country for the last twenty years. We hold no worldwide influence, no power and have no means anymore to exert either. We rape our have provinces to support the have nots, then tell them their opinion matters to naught. We have a province that holds the rest of the country for ransom at every opportunity, then plead with them for understanding. We have elected representatives(?) who's job it is to vote the will of their constituents, but are only worried about their pension. Short of an all out revolution, please explain to me how much worse it can get.
 
Kat Stevens said:
Let me see if I get this...   You are, or want to be, in the army.   The army is only maintained by strict order and discipline, in fact, the antithesis of anarchy.   Here's how anarchy works:   "Nice jacket, Dogboy...I think I'll take it... No?" BANG!   "Thanks."

Kat

it's views like that, that show no one Knows real Political Anarchy, its got nothing to do with gang warfare and riots and crap like that.
its got everything to do with people working together and helping eachother, and standing up for themselves
try http://www.infoshop.org/faq/index.html
for a good intro on what true Anarchy is.
 
Also,  beleiving in anarchy as a polytical system (which I don't, but anyway) and being in the army aren't as contradictory as they may seem.  We live in a democracy and profess to uphold it's ideals, yet we certainly don't practice democracy within the military.
 
Definition
anarchy  [Show phonetics]
noun
lack of organization and control, especially in society because of an absence or failure of government:
What we are witnessing is the country's slow slide into anarchy.
The country has been in a state of anarchy since the inconclusive election.
If the pay deal isn't settled amicably there'll be anarchy in the factories.

anarchic  [Show phonetics]
adjective
Milligan's anarchic humour has always had the power to offend as well as entertain.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)
 
There will be problems in all types of government. This isn't the perfect world, so we won't have the "ideal definitions" of any type of government.  Like I said before, and I will say it again, we could have it much, much worse.
 
I'd prefer to hope against hope and consider that we could have it much, much better.
 
Some interesting stuff here,...
Do you remember the line from forest gump
"his back is as crooked as a politician.."
 
Kat Stevens said:
Definition
anarchy    [Show phonetics]
noun
lack of organization and control, especially in society because of an absence or failure of government:
What we are witnessing is the country's slow slide into anarchy.
The country has been in a state of anarchy since the inconclusive election.
If the pay deal isn't settled amicably there'll be anarchy in the factories.

anarchic    [Show phonetics]
adjective
Milligan's anarchic humour has always had the power to offend as well as entertain.

(from Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary)



Maybe the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary is written for the "special" students?  I don't know, here's the definition I have though:

an ·ar ·chy    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (nr-k)
n. pl. an ·ar ·chies
Absence of any form of political authority.
Political disorder and confusion.
Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.


"absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard of purpose", eh?  I was thinking maybe that sounded like the liberal party, but they DO have a common purpose - staying in power.  It sure does remind me of the Canadian electorate though.

Anyway, whatever definition you use, you can't reduce a political system into a one sentence definition.  Look up communism in the dictionary, then compare it to the Communist Manifesto.  Look up democracy, then compare it to our Charter of Rights and Freedoms, or the American Declaration of Independance and Bill of Rights.
 
ArmyRick said:
Some interesting stuff here,...
Do you remember the line from forest gump
"his back is as crooked as a politician.."

not 100% sure on this, but wasn't his back crooked as a question mark? I don't recall the politician bit, and I've watched it a considerable amount of times, but I could be incorrect.
 
48Highlander said:
Maybe the Cambridge Advanced Learner's Dictionary is written for the "special" students?  I don't know, here's the definition I have though:

I wouldn't have expected anything else...
 
Like this one better?
Pronunciation: 'a-n&r-kE, -"när-
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler -- more at ARCH-
1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : DISORDER <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature -- Israel Shenker>

Merriam-Webster online: or this;

anarchy

  "¢ noun 1 a state of disorder due to lack of government or control. 2 a society founded on the principles of anarchism.

  - ORIGIN Greek anarkhia, from an- 'without' + arkhos 'chief, ruler'.

Oxford English Dictionary

 

 
Kat Stevens said:
Like this one better?
Pronunciation: 'a-n&r-kE, -"när-
Function: noun
Etymology: Medieval Latin anarchia, from Greek, from anarchos having no ruler, from an- + archos ruler -- more at ARCH-
1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government
2 a : absence or denial of any authority or established order b : absence of order : DISORDER <not manicured plots but a wild anarchy of nature -- Israel Shenker>

Merriam-Webster online: or this;

anarchy

  "¢ noun 1 a state of disorder due to lack of government or control. 2 a society founded on the principles of anarchism.

  - ORIGIN Greek anarkhia, from an- 'without' + arkhos 'chief, ruler'.

Oxford English Dictionary

Yep, that's much better.   Anarchy as a system isn't neccesarily a lack of government, it's only a lack of politicians :)   Idealy, Anarchy is a form of self-government where people govern their own behaviour based on the standards of society.   They are free to do what they wish, sure, and as long as it doesn't harm anyone else they can do it, however they also know that if their actions are intentionaly harmful to others, someone else will deal with them in short order.   Socialy acceptable behaviour would be enforced by vigilantism.   That's simplifying things a LOT, and as I said, it's not a workable system for human society anyway (at least, not yet), however, there's a lot more to it than just "chaos" and "lack of order" as your initial definition suggested.   I don't want to sound condescending, but you should seriously read up on it a bit, it's an interesting concept.
 
1 a : absence of government b : a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority c : a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

While reading up on anarchy is interesting, I suggest you also read a bit of history as well. The Russian Civil War and the Spanish Civil War produced a number of anarchist movements, which either disintigrated into state "b", or quickly went to the wall since groups which "were" organized around a central principle were far more efficient. (The fact that the guiding principles were "Bolshevikism" and "National Socialism" in these two examples is in no way an endorsement for these principles).

If we want to move from "utopian" to practical, Libertarianism stresses the minimal role of government, while in the real world, American Republican governments espousing "Millenial capitalism"  have about the best real record based on actual results (GDP, per capita income etc.)
 
The "idea" of communism would work too, if it was followed properly, but it's not. Anarchy will never work in the real world.
 
Fry said:
The "idea" of communism would work too, if it was followed properly, but it's not. Anarchy will never work in the real world.

The "Ideal" of communism is a fable, a bedtime story for statists with totalitarian dreams. I believe it can and never will be realized. In order to construct a communist state you have to have complete and utter control. Any such control must be exercised by someone, the Communist ideology did not do away with classes it created a new ruling class, the apparatchik which replaced the Bourgeoisie. Therefore I put Communism in the same class, and light as Anarchism. It will never work in the real world.
 
48Highlander said:
  I don't want to sound condescending, but you should seriously read up on it a bit, it's an interesting concept.
Why not? You're very good at it....
 
Uggh, all the anarchy talk brings me back to first year Poly Sci, I had to actually read freakin' space novels about anarchist government. (Shudder) I think voting is something you should do, sort of the lesser of 3 evils choice. That being said, I've participated in the voting process in two provinces, Alberta and Newfoundland & Labrador. There are some very noticeable differences in the process. In the Alberta there was no intimate knowledge of the candidate by the large majority of the population and hence I voted for the political party that most closely represented my values. In Newfoundland & Labrador, the people seem to vote more for the person than the party, the reason being that our communities and cities are so small that practically everything is known about each candidate. Indeed in many small communities here in Newfoundland the political movers and shakers are the same people who went to your daughters wedding or your grandfathers funeral. You had probably spent most of your life growing up together. I found that both provinces have large differences in their political savvy.
 
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