Hearing (Merged) Including Hearing Tests and Hearing Categories

[Nauticus]

I am a frequent browser of these forums and have a question with my current application, hopefully someone can advise me!

Just to summarize my current application with the CF, I applied for DEO Aerospace control Officer about 6 months ago and have successfully completed the interview and background/reference check. Right now the only thing that is holding me back from being merit listed is the hearing portion of my medical.

To be more specific about my hearing issues, I am being listed as H3, as ONE tone on my right ear is listed at 40db (as opposed to 30db which would put me at H2 hearing and clear my medical). My ENT specialist assured me that this very minor "hearing loss" will not affect me. He even offered to write a letter to the medical staff stating that my hearing would not affect my daily tasks as an Aerospace Controller, however after speaking to the RMO at the recruiting office I don't think it would help as he told me that if my hearing test does not show that i am within the H2 range that I will NOT pass the medical.

So my question is, after 6 months of the application process, I will not be merit listed because of the 10db on one tone of my right ear? has anyone had any minor issues like this in the past that were successfully appealed? What should i do?

It's unfortunate, but they are standards for a reason. The fact is, you aren't eligible for that trade because your hearing is not good enough. Period.

Perhaps there'll be another trade you'll enjoy just as much, with decreased audible standards.

 

[xo31@711ret]

Quote from: SupersonicMax on Yesterday at 20:29:53
On the other hand, I don't believe the audiogram is the best way to test someone's hearing... 

I always have (audio) hallucinations in there....

True, but I'm betting the individual DID do his medical at the recruiting centre / detachment; was found to have a hearing deficit with our audio-exam equipment & given a 'family doctor's letter' to clarify. The individual stated he was assesed by an ENT (Ears, Nose & Throat) specialist: a physician, who, in my my experience would have done a more thorough and detailed examination / audiogram and sent the results back to the medical section of the recruiting centre / detachment...

 

[kincanucks]

Perhaps there'll be another trade you'll enjoy just as much, with decreased audible standards.

Again for the ill informed, regardless of what the trade medical standard is the applicant must meet the enrolment medical standard to be enrolled in the CF.

 

[Scott]

So it seems question asked and answered, no need to go further.

To the OP, I am going to lock this one but feel free to PM one of the Staff if you have any updates and we'll open it up for you.

On a personal note: it sucks for you, but as said by others: there are standards for a reason.

Good luck

Scott
Army.ca Staff

 

[Trumpeter42]

I'm hoping someone more knowlegeable about CF Medical standards can give me some advice here, or tell me I'm SOL.

I've been serving in Class A Reserves for 27 years. First 7 years was in combat arms trades, last 20 years as a musician. I'm in the
middle of a transfer, same trade/component in a different unit. I was told to go in for a medical as part of the transfer. Everything
was fine except for my hearing test. 8 years ago, I had a medical and was rated at H2. Last week the machine rated me at H4.

I'm now waiting for an appointment with a specialist and a more accurate hearing test. I know the official minimum for the musician
MOC is H3, although I'm not sure that's actually neccessary. I have no problem with musical overtones and pitch determination, and
perform well in professional groups outside the military.

Are they really going to kill my career over this? I've heard/read that some allowances have been given to allow Sr ranks to wear
hearing aids and still serve (although I don't really need one to do my job). I remember a clerk in my unit years ago who wore a
hearing aid... Do I have options here?

 

[CombatDoc]

Trumpeter42, the first thing to do is to confirm your hearing acuity through testing at your specialist.  It is not uncommon that the screening audiogram shows a higher number (e.g. H4) than is confirmed at the specialist (e.g. H2 or H3).  If, in fact, you are found to be below trade standards than you will be placed on a PCAT likely with the restrictions "Requires Maximum Hearing Protection" and your file would be sent to D Med Pol and then DMCA.  Depending on the level of hearing loss you may need a hearing aid.  If D Med Pol upholds the Medical Employment Limitations (and with H factor it's easy), the most common determination made by DMCA is Retain Without Restrictions.

In other words, the most important things to do are 1) confirm your current hearing capability and 2) protect that hearing from further loss.  Never say never, but I have yet to see a mbr released from the CF for a change in H factor.

 

[Trumpeter42]

CombatDoc,

Thanks so much for your insight. My plan is to do exactly what you've said. It's just nice to know that there is a chance of not being released.

Keeping my fingers crossed....

 

[derekrobitaille]

Hello, I am new here and this is my first post. I am glad to be a part of these forums and I have also been considering joining the Canadian Forces for a couple of years now. I have absolutely no clue what I want from civilian life and I am really stressed from student loans, the way life is right now and how it could be better. I just really need a wake up call and the forces is what can help me get my feet on the ground. University classes are pretty much all theory and it's hard to learn from writing notes everyday and reading them over and over. I'm a hands on typed person so theory is a little tough for me and when you leave University, you have nothing but a piece of paper claiming you have a Bachelor's Degree, etc; whereas, the forces, you have the hands on first-class training and all the experience.

Anyways, I am highly interested in the following career choices:

Aerospace Control Operator
Air Weapons Systems Technician
Airborne Electronic Sensor Operator
Aircraft Structures Technician
Aviation Systems Technician

and maybe a couple more.

I am twenty-years-old, turning twenty-one June, 9th, in University studying first semester in Criminology because I figured I would want to pursue a career in policing. Before that, I was in Photography and withdrew because I didn't think an education in Photography would benefit anything because I could learn myself and from others outside of a program anyhow. That was the biggest mistake I have ever made in my life, by far and I regret it ever since because it left me $9,000 in student loan debt and right now, I am on a $1600 student loan for my Criminology classes. IT SUCKS!!!

So, the past few days, I have been really considering applying to the forces because I need to start turning my life around. I love to travel and want to travel a lot more, I love photography, and I like planes so some of these career choices suit me well I think.

What really made me thinking today that if I applied, I would probably fail the medical test. I was born two months pre-mature and was put in an incubator for a while, which left me with asthma and high-frequency hearing loss. Asthma doesn't affect me whatsoever, in fact, I haven't taken medications for over two years and even before that, I had no use for the medications. What really concerns me is the hearing loss. When I was around four-years-old, I had to get a hearing test and hearing aids because apparently I couldn't hear properly. I was taking a test and there were buttons and noises so I don't think my maturity level was up to par obviously so I probably didn't understand when to push the button so that's when they determined I needed hearing aids. I can hear fine, haven't worn hearing aids since I was ten and I'm not hearing impaired.

Finally, this leads me to asking this question. Can the recruiters deny me from a little high-frequency hearing loss? What does this have to do with actual hearing? I assume lots of people in this generation, mostly teenagers have high-frequency hearing loss because they listen to music too loudly and go to lots of concerts. Could I get ruled out just for this? If I do, I feel that my life will go even more downhill from here trying to figure something else out. I'm not depressed or anything, I'm just lost and kind of emotionally rattled with a lot of dreams that I want to act upon. I want to become a better leader and serve for our country, Canada and become a better person and help others out.

 

[aesop081]

Could I get ruled out just for this?

The only way to tell is by doing the mmedical as part of the recruiting process. Yes, there are hearing standards to be met and if you are below them, it can rule you out.

You are thinking of one aircrew occupation so your asthma history may become an issue. Again, there is only one way to tell.

 

[Occam]

Why do people think that their own personal history might make a difference when it comes to enrolment medicals?  It's not personal.  Either you pass it or you don't.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55464.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1995.150.html

Please search!

 

[Cdnleaf]

Why do people think that their own personal history might make a difference when it comes to enrolment medicals?  It's not personal.  Either you pass it or you don't.

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/55464.0.html
http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1995.150.html
Please search!

The first link on Auditory Acuity is a great post by Old Medic / much thanks.

Derek - appreciate your sincerity and putting yourself/story out there.  Notwithstanding the outstanding links/resources on this site for information, as noted by CDN Aviator - get thee to a recruiting office to have your questions answered.  All the best, Dan.

 

[derekrobitaille]

Thanks for the replies. I used the search tool before posting and ran into both of the threads posted here. I just thought I would ask because the hearing one just states how the test is done. What if you can't hear 6000Hz? I did this online test in which I had to adjust the volume to the point where I could barely hear 2000Hz and then it asked if I could hear the tones ranging from 500Hz - 8000Hz. I could hear them all, but I had to really concentrate to be able to hear the 8000Hz. Like you all said, I can only find out if I apply and do the medical. I'm nervous just thinking about the medical. I'm in great health, play sports, but it's just my hearing that gets to me the most.

 

[Occam]

Thanks for the replies. I used the search tool before posting and ran into both of the threads posted here. I just thought I would ask because the hearing one just states how the test is done. What if you can't hear 6000Hz? I did this online test in which I had to adjust the volume to the point where I could barely hear 2000Hz and then it asked if I could hear the tones ranging from 500Hz - 8000Hz. I could hear them all, but I had to really concentrate to be able to hear the 8000Hz. Like you all said, I can only find out if I apply and do the medical. I'm nervous just thinking about the medical. I'm in great health, play sports, but it's just my hearing that gets to me the most.

It explains what happens if you can't hear 6000 Hz.  If you can hear all the tones from 500 to 8000 with no problems, you're an H1.  See the specs for H2?  If you can no longer hear the 6000 Hz, but everything is fine from 500 to 3000 Hz, you're an H2.  You only need the tones > 3000 Hz to achieve H1.

You can be enrolled as a H1 or a H2.

 

[derekrobitaille]

I'll go talk to the recruiters this week.

 

[JB 11 11]

Thanks for the replies. I used the search tool before posting and ran into both of the threads posted here. I just thought I would ask because the hearing one just states how the test is done. What if you can't hear 6000Hz? I did this online test in which I had to adjust the volume to the point where I could barely hear 2000Hz and then it asked if I could hear the tones ranging from 500Hz - 8000Hz. I could hear them all, but I had to really concentrate to be able to hear the 8000Hz. Like you all said, I can only find out if I apply and do the medical. I'm nervous just thinking about the medical. I'm in great health, play sports, but it's just my hearing that gets to me the most.

I have a diploma in Sound Engineering and the first they tell you is to go get your hearing checked.... and then to keep getting it checked on regular intervals, as in that profession, your ears are your bread and butter.

Needless to say, I've been through quite a few hearing tests, including the one for my CF Medical. In all of them I've been told by the test that I should sinal that I hear the tones no matter how faint they are.... so I wouldn't be too worried about your performance on the 5ooHz-8000Hz.

The average hearing range for humans is 20Hz - 20 000Hz, but even by the time we're 8yrs old, our ability to hear higher frequencies is starting to fade. 20 000Hz is pretty high... most people can "percive" or "feel" it, but very few can actually hear it. Personally, Im good until about 15-16 000 hz, any higher and I could probablly tell you when the tone was playing but its not because I can "Hear" it.

Another thing worth noting is that the High end frequency cut off for MP3's is 18 000Hz and thats a good quality Mp3. The crap that most kids are down loading these days are well below that.... around 15-16 Khz, so personally speaking, most people in their 20's wouldn't know a high frequency if they heard it ; )

But the important thing for you going into the CF, is the 85Hz -255Hz range which is the average range of the human voice, or more importantly, the average range of your Staff's voice ; )

 

[CombatDoc]

What really made me thinking today that if I applied, I would probably fail the medical test. I was born two months pre-mature and was put in an incubator for a while, which left me with asthma and high-frequency hearing loss. Asthma doesn't affect me whatsoever, in fact, I haven't taken medications for over two years and even before that, I had no use for the medications. What really concerns me is the hearing loss.

Although only the Recruiting Medical Officer can say for certain, if I was a betting man I would bet that your asthma history is more important during your recruit medical than your self-described normal hearing.  Good luck with your application, should you decide to apply.

 

[JB 11 11]

^ +1

 

[farrell486]

Currently i have a H4 in hearing catergory, been like this since 2001.  My file when to D Med Pol for review as myself and the medical staff both agreed i didn't meet certain points of the UOS. Anyway file came back from Ottawa saying I'm fit for service.  So i asked the MO if i released from reg force could i join the reserves.  The answer was no i couldn't as i don't meet the min trade specs for any trades in the CF.
I've dagged red for the past 10 years, sounds like a issue of money being invested in me as others have been released with hearing alot better than mine.

 

[fraserdw]

What's the question?  I, too, have an H4 in an H2 trade.  I have had it since 2001 and been denied a VA pension.  My accomodation is "fit for service while so employed or too CRA".  Like me you fell through the cracks be happy you have a job.

 

[farrell486]

Point is first i wanted out and then a reserve job was offered to me (which i can't take) so i figure since the Military broke me they should take resposibility.