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is height and fat and muscel a bad thing in the infantry

fly boy 45

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i was wondering if height and fat and muscel was bad thing in the infantry beucase i might pic that to join but i havae all those i weigh about 240 and i was wondering if that would screw me over some how?

regard:matt :cdn:
 
here is a bit of advice..

patience...

You have already started two other threads that could answer your question.

Wait for an answer brother.

dileas

tess
 
Big guys in the infantry  --  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/1905.0.html

Big guy going for infantry training?  --  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/17777.0.html

Infantry Build  --  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/2064.0.html

is there any weight limits for the infantry?  --  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/21198.0.html

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height and muscle are pretty much a good thing in any endeavour. Fat, not so much.

Before we go any further, you have a couple of threads going, asking questions. I'd like to ask you a few, in order to provide better answers. How old are you? When you say height, etc, what are the specifics? What are/were your grades like in High School? Are you mechanically inclined? And the most important one: do you like camping? (Don't bother answering that one, it's a gag.)
 
paracowboy said:
height and muscle are pretty much a good thing in any endeavour. Fat, not so much.

Before we go any further, you have a couple of threads going, asking questions. I'd like to ask you a few, in order to provide better answers. How old are you? When you say height, etc, what are the specifics? What are/were your grades like in High School? Are you mechanically inclined? And the most important one: do you like camping? (Don't bother answering that one, it's a gag.)

And I've seen some lads, described as fat, do quite well at 9500 ft and wearing 100 lbs.  I will admit that they were aerobically fit, because they used to run with me on a 10km run.  Not the fastest lads in the company, but hard soldiers.
 
devil39 said:
And I've seen some lads, described as fat, do quite well at 9500 ft and wearing 100 lbs.   I will admit that they were aerobically fit, because they used to run with me on a 10km run.   Not the fastest lads in the company, but hard soldiers.
good on them. Are you suggesting that being fat is a good thing, either for military fitness or general health? Or are you supplying the "exception that proves the rule"? Or well, actually what are you saying? I don't see where you are going with this.

I still stand by height and muscle being good things, fat being a bad thing. (In generalities, of course, without entering a debate on good cholesterol, etc).
 
Being "hard" is a mental thing - Devil is right that some big guys will outlast "gym-bunnies" or "gazelles" when it comes to getting the job done.

However, I generally look at fat as "extra baggage" - something akin to the bug bar and the melmac cup; shit the Ops150 list makes you carry around but really doesn't do you any good.  A big guy who is a hard soldier definitely wouldn't hurt himself by losing 20 lbs and still being hard.
 
paracowboy said:
good on them. Are you suggesting that being fat is a good thing, either for military fitness or general health? Or are you supplying the "exception that proves the rule"? Or well, actually what are you saying? I don't see where you are going with this.

I still stand by height and muscle being good things, fat being a bad thing. (In generalities, of course, without entering a debate on good cholesterol, etc).

I would say Paracowboy, that you can't always judge the book by the cover.  I have always aimed to train troops to be aerobically fit, and have always trained for weight load training well above the requirements for the BFT.

I took troops from Winnipeg at 400 ft above sea level, and 4 days later they were humping rucks at 9'500 ft in Afghanistan.  Body type is not the prime requirement. 

Alll I am saying is that you don't discriminate against the odd troop who doesn't fit the model of fitness.  Give them a chance.  Because at 10,000 feet you are all sucking wind, and some of the large lads are carrying large loads.

Skinny 140lb troops don't generally carry 120lb rucks.  I've watched my troops weigh in at 120lb rucks quite regularly.

 
This is turning into an interesting read :D Aerobically fit sounds like what most instructors I've met are going for. Not this seemingly prevalent attitude that everyone is a wimp who can't run like a gazelle whilst packing the rest of the herd on his macho shoulders.

The armed forces need all sorts of people. Not just some guy's ideal of the 'soldier'. Every CF member should be fit and able to carry their own, but the minimum standards are set for a reason. Those who don't excel at running might be very strong in other areas....carrying heavy loads...or logistics...or getting food to the troops on time...

Just my 2 cents.
 
NavComm said:
This is turning into an interesting read :D Aerobically fit sounds like what most instructors I've met are going for. Not this seemingly prevalent attitude that everyone is a wimp who can't run like a gazelle whilst packing the rest of the herd on his macho shoulders.

The armed forces need all sorts of people. Not just some guy's ideal of the 'soldier'. Every CF member should be fit and able to carry their own, but the minimum standards are set for a reason. Those who don't excel at running might be very strong in other areas....carrying heavy loads...or logistics...or getting food to the troops on time...

Just my 2 cents.

NavComm.... Don't get too excited.  The general CF and Army standard are so far removed from reality as to be completely useless.

In the Infantry, we train so far above the requirement of the 13 km march as to make it almost completely irrelevant.  It is a very poor standard.

After I conducted a 13km ruck march, for three consecutive weeks, we began to understand  the reality of our requirements.

 
devil39 said:
I would say Paracowboy, that you can't always judge the book by the cover.  
 
Alll I am saying is that you don't discriminate against the odd troop who doesn't fit the model of fitness.  Give them a chance.  Because at 10,000 feet you are all sucking wind, and some of the large lads are carrying large loads. Skinny 140lb troops don't generally carry 120lb rucks.  I've watched my troops weigh in at 120lb rucks quite regularly.
well, of course. I realized that a decade ago. I've worked alongside men with less-than-svelte physiques enough to know better than to make snap judgements. I've had men in my section who couldn't begin to keep up on a run, but could carry an Iltis. You make it sound as though I were attacking someone. I had said that height and muscle are generally good, and fat is generally bad.

Gazelles are fine, but they generally don't have the body mass to hump a serious ruck. Body builders are often useless on any Ex lasting longer than a week, because they're they don't train for endurance, and they have such low bodyfat they freeze.

But, fat is not good. The human body needs a certain level to function properly, but once you get above that, it's extremely bad. Fat on your frame and fat in your arteries. Bad. Any troop that is carrying too much fat on him will always do better if he loses it. He will perform better and he will feel better.
A tall soldier has it easier because there are times when his stride can carry him through when shorter men are struggling. That's why I have so much respect for my friends who are shorter than I.
A muscular soldier has it easier because he can carry haevier rucks easier than a slight man. He can outlast gazelles at difficult tasks (trench digging, for instance), and can handle himself better in a melee.
A fat troop has to fight his own body. It wants to quit, it has no energy, it makes his already difficult task even harder.

So, height is good, muscle is good, fat is bad.
 
paracowboy said:
 well, of course. I realized that a decade ago. I've worked alongside men with less-than-svelte physiques enough to know better than to make snap judgements. I've had men in my section who couldn't begin to keep up on a run, but could carry an Iltis. You make it sound as though I were attacking someone. I had said that height and muscle are generally good, and fat is generally bad.

Gazelles are fine, but they generally don't have the body mass to hump a serious ruck. Body builders are often useless on any Ex lasting longer than a week, because they're they don't train for endurance, and they have such low bodyfat they freeze.

But, fat is not good. The human body needs a certain level to function properly, but once you get above that, it's extremely bad. Fat on your frame and fat in your arteries. Bad. Any troop that is carrying too much fat on him will always do better if he loses it. He will perform better and he will feel better.
A tall soldier has it easier because there are times when his stride can carry him through when shorter men are struggling. That's why I have so much respect for my friends who are shorter than I.
A muscular soldier has it easier because he can carry haevier rucks easier than a slight man. He can outlast gazelles at difficult tasks (trench digging, for instance), and can handle himself better in a melee.
A fat troop has to fight his own body. It wants to quit, it has no energy, it makes his already difficult task even harder.

So, height is good, muscle is good, fat is bad.

At times, fat will keep you alive.    I failed to feed my troops for 12 hours in the most inhospitable terrain known to man.  

At 8,000 ft you cannot ingest enough calories to keep your weight up even given rations.   Any time I went on Ops I would lose 10 - 15 lbs.

Paracowboy, fat isn't bad.   Obesity, is bad.  A lack of physical fitness is bad.  Lack of willpower is bad.


 
Devil, I'm not advocating every troop have a 2% bodyfat average. If you like we can discuss precisely how much fat a man should carry on his frame in order to be able to draw on the reserves it will need, or we can debate the exact 'mix' of cardio, weight resistance, and rucksackmarchig is required to equal the perfect PT program, or we can debate the psychological implications of obesity/lack of fitness and how they tie in to a lack of will power.
But, in this youngster's case, we can make some safe assumptions and go on some generalities, until we get more definitive information from him. If he's asking about height, fat, and muscle, specifically, chances are good that he's tall, fairly athletic, but carrying more fat than he's comfortable with. So, (barring his having some sort of eating disorder) the short answer I provided is still accurate. To get through Basic training and then Battle School, his height will be an asset, any muscle he's carrying will be an asset, fat will be a hindrance.
 
I am curious about how much fat someone can carry on themselves.
Women, naturally, have more fat than men(breasts, larger booties etc) so where would a female fall in the grand scheme of things army-wise?

I know I am very strong, can carry a heavy load and not whine and cry, but most of that is my own will power. I am not as fit as I should/could be, I know I will be there soon, but I am not there now. I know that I can walk until my legs fall off, I know I can handle alot of pain, but I still can not do 15 push ups...lol

Where would I fall??
Am I considered fat and lazy by those standards because I am not fit?

As long as everyone is working as a team and gets what needs to be done, don, then who cares. Every person needs to be able to at least pull their own weight, and if they can not, boot them out(of give them a midnight wake up call ;)) JMO
 
Springroll said:
I am curious about how much fat someone can carry on themselves.
Springroll, this is not a question I am willing to answer. Perhaps one of the medical pers will do so, but it's out of my lane. (And I assume you mean how much you can carry before it becomes a health hazard, right?) If you're concerned, I suggest you see a doctor and ask her.

Women, naturally, have more fat than men(breasts, larger booties etc) so where would a female fall in the grand scheme of things army-wise?
right about here:
I...can carry a heavy load and not whine and cry, but most of that is my own will power...I know that I can walk until my legs fall off, I know I can handle alot of pain

Am I considered fat and lazy by those standards because I am not fit?
everyone seems to be making some assumptions here about the word "fit" and what it means. "Fit" in the military means able to meet the standards and the demands of your trade. "Fit" does not mean triathlete, bodybuilder, power lifter, or spandex-clad frolicking gym-trollop (Bless them all!). No one should expect every soldier, sailor, or airman to look like products of the NAZI genetic breeding program (fewer CF members wearing CADPAT muumuus would be good, though). Some guys is greyhounds, some guys is great danes, some guys is like me: lazy ol' hounds that only move off the porch when they gots to, but can always get the job done.

Have I cleared up any misconceptions as to my meaning in the last couple pages?
 
paracowboy said:
No one should expect every soldier, sailor, or airman to look like products of the NAZI genetic breeding program (fewer CF members wearing CADPAT muumuus would be good, though). Some guys is greyhounds, some guys is great danes, some guys is like me: lazy ol' hounds that only move off the porch when they gots to, but can always get the job done.

Have I cleared up any misconceptions as to my meaning in the last couple pages?

This section cleared it up for me, thank you.  :-*

 
I have seen pictures and videos of some of the people on BMQ etc and I think the CF should take a new approach to helping these future soldiers.  Instead of offering unhealthy food for the meals they should provide healthy meals such as (chicken breasts, rice, sweet potatoes, broccoli, fish, lean beef, egg whites, oatmeal, fruit in the morning for fuel etc)  by having unhealthy food unavailable members will be forced to eat this food and as a result will see drastic drops in bodyfat.

In a way it could be somewhat of a fat camp.  Every member would come out with a lower % bodyfat then when they went in.  Especially with morning PT 3-5x a week.  However healthy food is expensive and unhealthy food is cheap so this will never happen
 
I have seen pictures and videos of some of the people on BMQ etc and I think the CF should take a new approach to helping these future soldiers.  Instead of offering unhealthy food for the meals they should provide healthy meals such as (chicken breasts, rice, sweet potatoes, broccoli, fish, lean beef, egg whites, oatmeal, fruit in the morning for fuel etc)  by having unhealthy food unavailable members will be forced to eat this food and as a result will see drastic drops in bodyfat.

In a way it could be somewhat of a fat camp.  Every member would come out with a lower % bodyfat then when they went in.  Especially with morning PT 3-5x a week.  However healthy food is expensive and unhealthy food is cheap so this will never happen

Sir, I'm afraid you don't have the slightest fsucking clue on what you are talking about. Maybe you should actually visit a real base before spouting this kind of BS?
 
I have spoke to people that have gone to BMQ and they have said for food there are french fries, pizza, desserts etc....who the heck eats desserts anyways

Also if anyone ate a clean diet they would have a low percent bodyfat no matter what their genetics unless they had thyroid issues or soemthing like that.  I see pictures of members in the CF and a large percent have a very high % bodyfat from what I have seen
 
spandex-clad frolicking gym-trollop

Paracowboy - I had no idea you'd seen me working out - next time you see me working out - don't be shy - come over and introduce yourself   ;D

cheers, mdh
 
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