Justin Trudeau hints at boosting Canada’s military spending

I'll believe it when I see it.

 

[quadrapiper]

The more you demand transparency and public reporting the more you demand bureaucratic staff to do that work. There needs to be a balance.

Though if the numbers are already there, especially, already there in a form that won't reveal anything that shouldn't be, how much work is it to dump it on the web?

 

[dapaterson]

Though if the numbers are already there, especially, already there in a form that won't reveal anything that shouldn't be, how much work is it to dump it on the web?

It's not just "dump it on the web". Vendors have concerns about their cost information being made available. There can be national security concerns in revealing certain vendors.

And we already have enough trouble with bullshit artist companies claiming they can provide things at a lower price despite having never done it before (MPA from Bombardier anyone?)

DND breaks down costs between acquisition and operation. But rolling them together for total lifetime cost makes a better headline.

 

[Kirkhill]

To be clear, I'm not advocating we don't export products; I'm just not a fan of exporting non-value-added products.

I don't know the industries. Maybe there are good reasons why we ship raw products, but it just strikes me as part of sitting back on our historic 'hewers of wood and drawers of water' mentality. Adding value to a product is jobs and profit.

To me the basic logic is simple: How can I make the most money for the least effort?

That is my problem with most of these schemes for alternate fuels and alternate foods. Most of them demand a lot more inputs in the form of materials, technology and manpower, and consequently costs, than the "natural" alternative. Natural in this case meaning belonging to nature, like coal in the ground and oil in the swamps.

Consider the possibility of a Canadian economy based on 10 people manning a control station overseeing mining operations all over Canada. Robots do the digging and transporting and converting the materials into shelter, heat and light with the excess going to foreign trade.

The other 40 million Canadians could then afford to retire to the cottage and drink beer being "investors" in The Canadian Mining Corporation.

....

Of course that leaves a lot of time for thinking ...

 

[Kirkhill]

Being able to hit something does not equate to having control of something by ground force, or most importantly being able to defend something or someone.

I was reminded of this when I read this

A New Golden Age Starts with Restored American Sea Power - Providence

If Trump’s goal is to avoid foreign wars while maintaining a muscular posture abroad, a Navy-forward national security doctrine would serve him well

providencemag.com

The return to American sea power would also give needed shape to Trump’s quasi-isolationist foreign policy while mitigating its worst impulses. It was the renowned naval strategist Alfred Thayer Mahan who pointed out why naval power suits a democratic nation better than land power, which inevitably pulls towards tyranny. Navies have a limited capacity to extend coercive force inland, making them, as Robert Kaplan has put it, “no menace to liberty.” If Trump’s goal is to avoid foreign wars while maintaining a muscular posture abroad, a Navy-forward national security doctrine would serve him well.

Levine expands on this idea in his paper, arguing for an end to big wars with ill-defined or unattainable goals in favor of smaller operations with clear objectives and exit plans. Isolationism is not a strategy; power must be deployed. But the watchword in all things is discretion, which above all requires a judicious use of military force. The Navy-Marine Corps team, being inherently mobile and flexible, should be America’s primary force in hard-hitting but brief interventions that advance the national interest—that is to say, most military actions abroad. The Army and Air Force, which require an immense footprint when deployed, are wired to enlarge and extend military operations as a rule, and thus should only be used in major, congressionally-declared wars. This one insight, if adopted and taken to its logical conclusion, would inspire a radical readjustment of military doctrine, budgets, and procurement plans inside the Department of Defense. Trump would be wise to push it.

I would put it that the USAF and the US Army / National Guard team is best suited to the defence of Turtle Island. The USN / USMC, as described above, is best when tailored to control the seas and deliver short, sharp shocks.

....

If Canada were to follow the US and the same pattern then the RCAF and the "Militia" would be responsible for the Homeland, including our "Iron Dome" coverage. The RCN and the Army's Expeditionary Force would follow the USN/USMC pattern as a discretionary tool of Foreign Affairs. Should the RCN be split between domestic and expeditionary duties? Or should the Coast Guard revert to more of its Provincial Marine roots? After all we are now contemplating a separate armed Canadian Border Services Agency actively patrolling our borders.

 

[Good2Golf]

Think that one through before suggesting it. Do you really want Boissonnault, Guilbeault and the like deciding on your equipment for the next 20 years. I would have thought you had learnt your lesson when we bought helicopters.

Crap MP like them don’t form the Board. And anyway, the Board takes its direction from the PM….so like I noted earlier, if the PM wants something to go, TB will make it happen.

 

[dapaterson]

Crap MP like them don’t form the Board. And anyway, the Board takes its direction from the PM….so like I noted earlier, if the PM wants something to go, TB will make it happen.

Chretien's 2002 March madness Challengers purchase enters the conversation.

 

[Good2Golf]

Chretien's 2002 March 31st (day of) madness Challengers purchase enters the conversation.

Yeah, that’s a record that will be pretty hard to beat.

 

[DBNSG]

Chretien's 2002 March madness Challengers purchase enters the conversation.

We Don need dat.

 

[Good2Golf]

We Don need dat.

Au contraire!

How else will PM Carney flash down to the Bahamas to meet his close friend Justin at the Aga Khan’s Caribbean retreat?

Anyone up for bets on which Bombardier biz jets we buy next month? Challenger 650s? Global 7000s?

 

[DBNSG]

Au contraire!

How else will PM Carney flash down to the Bahamas to meet his close friend Justin at the Aga Khan’s Caribbean retreat?

Anyone up for bets on which Bombardier biz jets we buy next month? Challenger 650s? Global 7000s?

How's the odds on us Firming up the two extra P-8 options? Throw in some Hercs to keep Lockmart happy.

 

[Maxman1]

Better yet, make it an extra 20 P-8s.

 

[OldSolduer]

Better yet, make it an extra 20 P-8s.

Before we all get a wet dream out of this lets remember Canada has a recruiting and retention problem.

 

[Maxman1]

Before we all get a wet dream out of this lets remember Canada has a recruiting and retention problem.

And buying less kit doesn't solve that.

 

[dapaterson]

Before we all get a wet dream out of this lets remember Canada has a recruiting and retention problem.

What retention problem? Among the lowest release rates in NATO?

The retention problem may be that we keep too many...

 

[Halifax Tar]

What retention problem? Among the lowest release rates in NATO?

The retention problem may be that we keep too many...

If we have the lowest release rates I can't imagine how bad it is in other services.

 

[dapaterson]

If we have the lowest release rates I can't imagine how bad it is in other services.

Last I saw about 8%. The CAF needs to invest in the personnel production system so it is able to surge and to sustain the current demand without being reliant on augmentation from the fleet / field force to do so.

The biggest retention issue is keeping the wrong people far too long.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Last I saw about 8%. The CAF needs to invest in the personnel production system so it is able to surge and to sustain the current demand without being reliant on augmentation from the fleet / field force to do so.

The biggest retention issue is keeping the wrong people far too long.

We do definitely need to finesse our recruiting.

 

[Good2Golf]

How's the odds on us Firming up the two extra P-8 options? Throw in some Hercs to keep Lockmart happy.

I’ll check around (the Beltway ), but I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s an option on the contract for more. The E-7s are supposed to be coming soon, it’s a bit of a weird one signals-wise as to whether PM Carney will buy them or PM Poilievre. It hasn’t settled down south yet.

 

[FJAG]

Last I saw about 8%. The CAF needs to invest in the personnel production system so it is able to surge and to sustain the current demand without being reliant on augmentation from the fleet / field force to do so.

The biggest retention issue is keeping the wrong people far too long.

I'm 100% on board with this but will throw in a small caveat.

I don't think that you can have a system where 100% of the training staff is in an institution and not augmented from the field force. We're too small a force to have a 365 days a year training requirement for each and every trade so that training staff would be fully employed year-round. We can't keep staff in an institution when there are large periods of downtime or a surge may be needed. Economically, augmentation from the field force is the most efficient way to deal with fluctuating training demands.

That said, if augmentation is economically inevitable then the system needs to be adjusted so that augmentation demands do not interfere with, or are well programmed into, the needs of the field force itself. I've discussed the temporary transfer of DP1 arty training to 2 RCHA in the mid seventies before and was roundly criticized of that concept by several serving members. Similarly we do incorporate numerous DP2 courses into "regimental schools" - usually in the winter months.

My gut tells me that it isn't augmentation itself which is the problem, but the failure of the training system and the field force to properly coordinate recruiting, individual training and field force collective training activities. That's not easy to do which is probably why it isn't done well - or at all.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Last I saw about 8%. The CAF needs to invest in the personnel production system so it is able to surge and to sustain the current demand without being reliant on augmentation from the fleet / field force to do so.

The biggest retention issue is keeping the wrong people far too long.

FWIW...

CAF Retention Strategy

Annex E: Data Details - Canada.ca

Attrition can occur at any stage of a member’s career, affecting productivity and corporate memory, flexibility in career management, postings and deployments, and increased workload for remaining personnel which, in turn, impacts morale. The effects of attrition also include the CAF’s force...

www.canada.ca