LGBTQ Stuff (split from other political threads)

[Jarnhamar]

The Daily — Police-reported hate crime, 2021

The number of hate crimes reported by police in Canada rose from 2,646 incidents in 2020 to 3,360 in 2021, a 27% increase. This finding follows a 36% increase in 2020. The number of police-reported hate crimes rose by 72% from 2019 to 2021.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

View attachment 79810

That's good info thanks.

There's no correlation between people ripping down flags/trashing sidewalks, and physically assaulting people, but it's clear hate crime and suspected hate crime targeting LGBTQ are on the rise. Makes sense the community would be on edge about it and because of the rising numbers they could see vandalism as a prelude to violence. Is there numbers anywhere on LGBTQ-related physical assaults?

I see there's twice as much reported religion-based hate crime. 260% increase against Roman Catholics in 2021. I don't recall hearing much about that from the government. The same goes for the almost 500 cases of hate crimes against Jewish people. I wonder if all the anti-jewish comments left-wing politicians seem to like making on social media has anything to do with it.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

That's good info thanks.

There's no correlation between people ripping down flags/trashing sidewalks, and physically assaulting people, but it's clear hate crime and suspected hate crime targeting LGBTQ are on the rise. Makes sense the community would be on edge about it and because of the rising numbers they could see vandalism as a prelude to violence. Is there numbers anywhere on LGBTQ-related physical assaults?

I see there's twice as much reported religion-based hate crime. 260% increase against Roman Catholics in 2021. I don't recall hearing much about that from the government. The same goes for the almost 500 cases of hate crimes against Jewish people. I wonder if all the anti-jewish comments left-wing politicians seem to like making on social media has anything to do with it.

Honestly, StatsCan or not, I'm finding it exceedingly hard to believe a single thing that comes with .gc.ca attached to it.

 

[IKnowNothing]

How many people have been charged for assault who fit this criteria?

In this case no one was charged. 15+ years ago. Charitably speaking, very legitimate issue of the high level of difficulty of an investigation of an unidentified assailant sucker punching and kicking someone in the dead of night on a University campus leading to charges.

I want to ask this as "good faithedly" and non-confrontationally as possible. In your own words "There is a small but loud group of people who range from hardcore anti-LGBTQ." Let's not beat around the bush- "hard-core anti" means bigoted, hateful people that will express that through whatever means they can- violence, legitimately discriminatory legislation, you name it.

Why do you think it's more important to push back against the annoying twats that lump any dissent from their extreme LW opinions as the same as the "hardcore anti's" than it is to distance yourself from the "hardcore anti's" and find a consensus that sees the extremists on both wings yammering alone in their corners?

 

[Remius]

I see there's twice as much reported religion-based hate crime. 260% increase against Roman Catholics in 2021. I don't recall hearing much about that from the government.

It’s quite literally there being sourced on a government website lol. But yes, politicians of ALL stripes have been pretty silent on that.

The same goes for the almost 500 cases of hate crimes against Jewish people. I wonder if all the anti-jewish comments left-wing politicians seem to like making on social media has anything to do with it.

Ah yes. But when the source of said hate crimes against Jews get brought here in other threads it gets dismissed…

RCMP alerted, Jewish groups alarmed after U.S. white-supremacist league makes inroads in Canada

Police forces are investigating antisemitic propaganda cropping up in communities across Canada that refer to an active U.S. white-supremacist group

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Furniture]

Ah yes. But when the a source of said hate crimes against Jews get brought here in other threads it gets dismissed…

FTFY

Unless you meant to imply that all hate crimes against Jews are perpetrated by white supremacists? I don't think anyone on here has ever denied that white supremacists exist.

Back to the main topic, 485 crimes based gender identity/sexual orientation is a miniscule amount of crime in a country of near 40 million people(2021).

 

[The Bread Guy]

'Out of control' would probably resemble a modern version of this, which might not be so far fetched given the loonie toons in power right now

Kristallnacht​

Kristallnacht - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The example is extreme, for sure, but let's not forget the government driven/guided/encouraged/not-discouraged narrative development and poking/prodding of the population in question leading up to this event, and keep it in mind when looking at some of what's happening in some jurisdictions these days.

No, I'm not saying we're headed toward or seeing Kristallnacht 2.0 at this point, but like some smarter than me have said, history doesn't always repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

 

[Remius]

FTFY

Unless you meant to imply that all hate crimes against Jews are perpetrated by white supremacists? I don't think anyone on here has ever denied that white supremacists exist.

Back to the main topic, 485 crimes based gender identity/sexual orientation is a miniscule amount of crime in a country of near 40 million people(2021).

That same year there was also 788 homicides. Also a minuscule amount of crime in a country of near 40 million people.

That doesn’t mean it should be brushed off as nothing. Or treated that way.

 

[mariomike]

But when the source of said hate crimes against Jews get brought here in other threads it gets dismissed…

RCMP alerted, Jewish groups alarmed after U.S. white-supremacist league makes inroads in Canada

RCMP alerted, Jewish groups alarmed after U.S. white-supremacist league makes inroads in Canada

Police forces are investigating antisemitic propaganda cropping up in communities across Canada that refer to an active U.S. white-supremacist group

www.theglobeandmail.com

Don't know why anyone ( not you, Remius ) felt the need to drag religion into "LGBTQ Stuff".

The Jewsih voting record in U.S. presidential elections is pretty clear which team they support.

Jewish Voting Record in U.S. Presidential Elections

Encyclopedia of Jewish and Israeli history, politics and culture, with biographies, statistics, articles and documents on topics from anti-Semitism to Zionism.

www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org

% of Jewish vote 2016,

Republican 24%

Democratic 71%

White evangelical was opposite,

WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump won support from about 8 in 10 white evangelical Christian voters in his race for reelection, but Catholic voters split almost evenly between him and Democratic opponent Joe Biden, according to AP VoteCast.

Survey: Biden and Trump split the 2020 Catholic vote almost evenly

AP VoteCast showed 50% of Catholics backing Trump and 49% favoring Biden, reflecting the faith’s longstanding role as a closely contested vote in presidential elections.

www.americamagazine.org

No, I'm not saying we're headed toward or seeing Kristallnacht 2.0 at this point, but like some smarter than me have said, history doesn't always repeat itself, but it often rhymes.

Antisemitism in Canada at record levels in 2021 with surge in violence, audit finds​

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/canada-antisemitism-violence-report-1.6430495

 

[suffolkowner]

FTFY

Unless you meant to imply that all hate crimes against Jews are perpetrated by white supremacists? I don't think anyone on here has ever denied that white supremacists exist.

Back to the main topic, 485 crimes based gender identity/sexual orientation is a miniscule amount of crime in a country of near 40 million people(2021).

be interested to see a breakdown on which of the 2SLGBTQIARZ are the targets and by whom

 

[Jarnhamar]

It’s quite literally there being sourced on a government website lol. But yes, politicians of ALL stripes have been pretty silent on that.

Good point, I wasn't very clear. I meant we didn't see Trudeau crying about it on TV, having Jewish flags waved around, big speeches.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Pragmatic warning of real risks =/= manufacturing a boogeyman out of a minority group to punch down on for political gain and distract from real issues

I kind of doubt it.

I was just in the United States (well, two of the lower 48 states). Both gay couples and transgendered folk were in plain evidence nearly everywhere I travelled and they seemed remarkably un-oppressed. In fact, the mood in the US seemed far more relaxed and grown up than what we are currently seeing in Canada.

I get that some some states are far more small ”l” liberal than others, but the USA does not appear to be on the verge of removing rights from LGTBQ people…

 

[Quirky]

The Daily — Police-reported hate crime, 2021

The number of hate crimes reported by police in Canada rose from 2,646 incidents in 2020 to 3,360 in 2021, a 27% increase. This finding follows a 36% increase in 2020. The number of police-reported hate crimes rose by 72% from 2019 to 2021.

www150.statcan.gc.ca

View attachment 79810

Interesting charts, but I wonder if the increase in reported crimes against the 2SLGTs has anything to do with the exponential growth in gov and public attention and media coverage they are getting. People overall are likely tired of this being an issue and like already mentioned in this thread, most just want to live quietly and do their own thing.

 

[Furniture]

That same year there was also 788 homicides. Also a minuscule amount of crime in a country of near 40 million people.

That doesn’t mean it should be brushed off as nothing. Or treated that way.

You're kind of making my point for me.

There were nearly twice as many homicides, which is about the worst form of criminal activity, as there were people laying rubber on pride crosswalks, stealing pride flags from businesses, and calling people derogatory names. Yet we don't see cabinet ministers stirring up division over the homicides...

I'm not saying hate crimes aren't worthy of our attention, I'm just saying that they get blown out of proportion because it's an emotional trigger used to drive wedge politics/the culture war.

 

[mariomike]

I kind of doubt it.

I was just in the United States (well, two of the lower 48 states). Both gay couples and transgendered folk were in plain evidence nearly everywhere I travelled and they seemed remarkably un-oppressed. In fact, the mood in the US seemed far more relaxed and grown up than what we are currently seeing in Canada.

I get that some some states are far more small ”l” liberal than others, but the USA does not appear to be on the verge of removing rights from LGTBQ people…

There are exceptions,

Shop owner killed over Pride flag display outside her California store - National | Globalnews.ca

A gunman shot and killed Laura Ann Carleton right in front of her clothing store after making 'several disparaging remarks about a rainbow flag that stood outside.'

globalnews.ca

 

[Brad Sallows]

Obviously we see more of whatever we are actively looking for. Things that formerly went unreported receive more attention.

I suppose there is less "hate" crime (things people are doing) now than there was 20, 30, 50 years ago, but we pick up on more of what is there.

It's simply a fact that some people hate other people for what they are, whether based on sexuality, ethnicity, or basic way of living.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

There are exceptions,

Shop owner killed over Pride flag display outside her California store - National | Globalnews.ca

A gunman shot and killed Laura Ann Carleton right in front of her clothing store after making 'several disparaging remarks about a rainbow flag that stood outside.'

globalnews.ca

You have a gift for missing the point, don’t you?

Do most Canadian tourists open a store in the US and display a pride flag while on vacation?

A travel warning should cover things tourists are most likely to do while in a foreign country. In my most recent experience, LBGTQ people would be far more welcome, comfortable and safe in the US than in many places in Canada.

I am saying that the travel warning issued by the GAC was likely more politically motivated (for domestic purposes) than it was to warn of any real or exceptional danger to LGBTQ travellers to the US.

More Canadians should travel to the US, more often. You really start to see just how much we are being gaslit/underserved by our politicians…

 

[mariomike]

You have a gift for missing the point, don’t you?

Thanks for making it personal.

Have a good one.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Thanks for making it personal.

Have a good one.

I am sorry that I called you out on posting a link that is only obliquely related to a subject being discussed.

Please, continue with that fine tradtion…

 

[Jarnhamar]

I want to ask this as "good faithedly" and non-confrontationally as possible. In your own words "There is a small but loud group of people who range from hardcore anti-LGBTQ." Let's not beat around the bush- "hard-core anti" means bigoted, hateful people that will express that through whatever means they can- violence, legitimately discriminatory legislation, you name it.

Why do you think it's more important to push back against the annoying twats that lump any dissent from their extreme LW opinions as the same as the "hardcore anti's" than it is to distance yourself from the "hardcore anti's" and find a consensus that sees the extremists on both wings yammering alone in their corners?

You can be as confrontational and unfriendly as you like matey. All good. I have a LGBTQ daughter and another one who was trans for a week or two until she got bored of it, but still has some things she's working on. So I definitely have skin in the game and not making excuses for bullies or assholes.

You're off target regarding what I think it's important to push back against. I think the current government recognized that they can take advantage of LGBTQ issues for political gain, such as that ridiculous travel advisory. They're taking advantage of LGBTQ people which pisse sme off both as a voter and father.

A rainbow flag on a crosswalk is a stupid place for it and just asking for people to be dickheads. The building 1 RCR is in has a giant cap badge on the floor in the middle of the hallway. NCOs delight in screaming at young new soldiers and guests who accidentally walk over the cap badge. Real funny, but real stupid place for a cap badge.

Not ever perceived or actual insult against the LGBTQ community is a hate crime and a testament to right-wingers wanting to murder them all.
We have rules to deal with people who commit crimes. We can do that without fear-mongering and virtue signaling. Blowing things out of proportion isn't helpful and in my opinion, just makes things worse.

 

[Jarnhamar]

Don't know why anyone ( not you, Remius ) felt the need to drag religion into "LGBTQ Stuff".

You're not sure why someone brought religion into LGBTQ stuff so you proceed to bring in who Jewish people voted for in 2016 in the US election?


I brought up religion stemming from Blackadders post to bring attention to the fact there are twice as many hate crimes against people for religious reasons, with more hate crimes leveled against Jewish people than LGBTQ in 2021, and the government and media talk about it far far less.