Living Quarters
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CountDC
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THEONE said:
or perhaps not so simple. Are those shacks empty for a reason such as condemned? Building shacks require funding. Getting funding can take a long time, especially if you have just destroyed a bunch of shacks. Not an easy sell - sir we just destroyed some shacks and now would like to build new ones to house the extra soldiers we have a temporary requirement for. hmmmmm. I am sure the base does not get new building funds in its yearly budget without having jumped through hoops first. You also have consider the maintenance of the buildings once completed.
I remember at one point they wanted to tear down one of the condemned huts in Aldershot and build a new one. They were told no, there was no money budgeted for building a new place but there was lots in the budget for maintenance and renovation. Solution was - remove entire building except the corner posts thus the project was now maintenance and renovation.
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This housing issue is a CF issue, anywhere troops are training and are housed away from home; Pet, Borden, Edmonton, Gagetown....
Every base need more room for accm. And no, putting people 8 in a 4 person room is the way to go. It is wrong, and we should not put up with it.
Tear out those offices they built in old barracks and convert them back, and cram office space, not people.
Get those ATCO trailers, get those ISOs, we can put up a camp in 2-4 weeks in theater, there has got to be a way to do it.
These are our troops. We are the CF, there should not be any "no we can't"
There is no excuse for hundreds of soldiers having to live worse in Canada than they do when on deployment.
Every base need more room for accm. And no, putting people 8 in a 4 person room is the way to go. It is wrong, and we should not put up with it.
Tear out those offices they built in old barracks and convert them back, and cram office space, not people.
Get those ATCO trailers, get those ISOs, we can put up a camp in 2-4 weeks in theater, there has got to be a way to do it.
These are our troops. We are the CF, there should not be any "no we can't"
There is no excuse for hundreds of soldiers having to live worse in Canada than they do when on deployment.
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I remember hearing alllll about this issue back when the husband was in Pet for the work up training. I guess he was fortunate that he was 2 to a single. Yes, everyone was piled in there - people were living off the base in hotels too. Such is life when the bases lack accomodation. It's not pleasant - but nobody died from it.
I could copy and paste the emails he sends me about the current accomodation situation he and others are dealing with and the military vs civiliian relationship - if you want to call it that. I'm not going to - not that he's bitching - just venting about the ridiculousness of the situation.
The contracting process with the Feds takes eons... that 18 million dollar recapitalization project has been in the works for years and some of the homes are just now being completed (actually saw a picture of my old PMQ back in Shearwater as part of the project). Yes, camps can be set up and broken down in a short amount of time, but they're not necessarily meant to be permanent quarters.
All we can do is wait.... and hope we don't get another Liberal government.
I could copy and paste the emails he sends me about the current accomodation situation he and others are dealing with and the military vs civiliian relationship - if you want to call it that. I'm not going to - not that he's bitching - just venting about the ridiculousness of the situation.
The contracting process with the Feds takes eons... that 18 million dollar recapitalization project has been in the works for years and some of the homes are just now being completed (actually saw a picture of my old PMQ back in Shearwater as part of the project). Yes, camps can be set up and broken down in a short amount of time, but they're not necessarily meant to be permanent quarters.
All we can do is wait.... and hope we don't get another Liberal government.
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aesop081
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8 guys to a room ?
waahaa.......waahaa......here comes the waahaambulance........
We lived 8 to a room in the H lines in Gagetown back in the mid-90s too......everytime we went to gagetown from Pet. Get over it.
waahaa.......waahaa......here comes the waahaambulance........
We lived 8 to a room in the H lines in Gagetown back in the mid-90s too......everytime we went to gagetown from Pet. Get over it.
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CDN Aviator said:
or the 25 to a room in the H-Huts in Chiliwack
Jarnhamar
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Petawawa keeps taking on more and more pers but doesn't seem to be making more room for them. Seems dumb to me.
If we're sending guys and girls out to Afghanistan for 6 to 9 months the least the CF can do is *attempt* to do better than 9 people to a tiny room for 6 months to a year before hand.
If we're sending guys and girls out to Afghanistan for 6 to 9 months the least the CF can do is *attempt* to do better than 9 people to a tiny room for 6 months to a year before hand.
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haha. Now this has gone out of hand. I don't get upset with people who disagree with me in any way. I just put this post up so people could talk about solutions. Not put them down. Like I said. I have done my research and anyone with half a brain could have organized that base without spending a penny. The problem is that they spent money to make the shacks smaller. Wich makes no sense. And thanks for the nice pic NFLD Sapper. It has nothing to do with the fact that its 8 in a room. I have lived in worse but was treated better. The whole point of the 8 in a room as much as the rest of the base had empty rooms the whole time we were there. And yes. They are empty cause there was no one to take them. Like I said. I don't mind being in a crowded room if there is no choice. I do have to admit that I love the fact that I put this whole thing up to see if anyone could come up with solutions(wich was good in the begginning), but somehow ended up finding some people who have nothing better to do then just say suck it up. Glad this world doesn't look to them to grow. Otherwise we'd be screwed. lol
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Welcome to the internet, you don't get to dictate peoples opininions or what they can say.
Rules for deployment #18: Invite at least 185 people you don't really like because of their strange hygiene habits to come and visit for a couple of months. Exchange clothes with them.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x487981
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x487981
CountDC
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SFB said:
The CF does not get to put up a building simply because we want to - same as we do not get to build a ship simply because we want to. There is a long process to go through and priorities are set - often a lot of the process is outside of our control.
Cram offices? Where are you at? every office I have ever seen is crammed. On top of that you are now talking about renovating a building which brings us back to funding which again is a long process to have approved for a major project.
Here's' a tip - contact your local CE section and ask them how much funding they have available for new construction or building renovations. When they are either done laughing or cursing (if they don't hang up) then ask them how long it will take to get funding to accomplish what you are talking about.
What you are talking about is not cheap. Here is an example of a CE work order that was carried out when I worked there in charge of the time keeping section:
John (name changed to protect the guilty) decided he didn't like to use his muscles to open the door that stuck a little bit so he called CE to fix it. A month later CE dutifully dispatched a carpenter to deal with the door. John was made happy and we paid $300 to have a hand planer run across the top of the door 3 times so he didn't have to use his muscles. Now imagine how much it will cost to renovate 2 buildings - the shack you want to convert back and the one they will have to renovate to cram even more office space into.
You are right there is no excuse - but there is a reason - it is not the military that gets to decide on big ticket items - the government does and they do not move fast. I do not see them funding buildings for what is supposed to be a temporary situation.
Now your idea on trailers may be a good choice. Perhaps there is the option of leasing some to place in the camp as temp accommodations. Why not do the home work on it and submit your plan through the chain? Maybe you can be the solution. I will even give you a start - do a cost comparison of long term leasing and new construction. Make sure to include the cost of blue rockets if needed for the trailers. Again check with CE - they may already have the info available as it could be something they have already looked into.
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DC,
Been in long enough to be aware of how CE works, and funding. That in in itself is an area of improvement. 10 years from need to built can no longer acceptable. Talk to the guys at 2 CMBG HQ and Sigs in Petawawa, for instance. Its good the hear the MND finally talking about infrastructure again. We are on the right path. We need to demand more.
I am in Borden where they took 2 (that I know of) barrack blocks and converted them into spacious offices.
The issue with office space is that everyone now needs a computer, which requires a desk, which requires..... and so on and so on. Great plan 10 years ago to convert barrack to office when there was no flood of courses to train, no force generation. Now it is biting people in the butt.
Been in long enough to be aware of how CE works, and funding. That in in itself is an area of improvement. 10 years from need to built can no longer acceptable. Talk to the guys at 2 CMBG HQ and Sigs in Petawawa, for instance. Its good the hear the MND finally talking about infrastructure again. We are on the right path. We need to demand more.
I am in Borden where they took 2 (that I know of) barrack blocks and converted them into spacious offices.
The issue with office space is that everyone now needs a computer, which requires a desk, which requires..... and so on and so on. Great plan 10 years ago to convert barrack to office when there was no flood of courses to train, no force generation. Now it is biting people in the butt.
CountDC
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Oh man - lots of people spend their entire career without understanding anything about CE or funding. Can't even recall the number of times I heard why don't you guys (CE) just do this or that like we had free reign to spend money as we pleased. Then there were the fin wiz wannna be that couldn't understand why we couldn't just transfer x dollars from fund A to fund B so they could do what they wanted.
10 years was a long time and thank god they improved that.
Ok - you got to help me on the spacious office as I have never seen one. I am assuming you are not referring to the lovely cubicles we have here or the small office I had in the past but actual spacious offices that will hold my desk, file cabinets (all 4 that yes are needed) 2 computers (1 regular and 1 secret) plus room for 4 seated guests - let's make it easier - do they have the space of 2 full size cubicles? Anything less is really not spacious for an office and even that falls on the low end. The CF tends to just meet the minimum space required per person for cubicle space.
hmmm - as I remember it even before computers everyone required a desk, which required office space, and so on. I also remember before computers I actually had more office space than my cubicle with computer gives me.
I like that you say we need to demand more - does this mean you will do as I suggested and submit your plan through the chain of command? I really hope you do as it sounds like you would be able to produce a verily sound document that could produce some results.
10 years was a long time and thank god they improved that.
Ok - you got to help me on the spacious office as I have never seen one. I am assuming you are not referring to the lovely cubicles we have here or the small office I had in the past but actual spacious offices that will hold my desk, file cabinets (all 4 that yes are needed) 2 computers (1 regular and 1 secret) plus room for 4 seated guests - let's make it easier - do they have the space of 2 full size cubicles? Anything less is really not spacious for an office and even that falls on the low end. The CF tends to just meet the minimum space required per person for cubicle space.
hmmm - as I remember it even before computers everyone required a desk, which required office space, and so on. I also remember before computers I actually had more office space than my cubicle with computer gives me.
I like that you say we need to demand more - does this mean you will do as I suggested and submit your plan through the chain of command? I really hope you do as it sounds like you would be able to produce a verily sound document that could produce some results.
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aesop081
Guest
SFB said:
Thanks but i dont have to. I do, however, know what its like to live in close quarters for a long time with large groups of people. Its not like i joined the military yesterday.
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CDN Aviator said:
;D Unfortunately, it seems that the new generation hasn't caught on to that yet.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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SFB said:
Well said.
It's not just for privates getting boned for rooms.
In 2003 myself and another corporal were 2 people living in a room designated single occupant for 6 months work up training. We were crammed for space, had to keep stuff in my car.
Fast forward 2008 theres 4 SNCO's in the very same rooms.
IT seems like the shacks keep getting renovated to provide better quality of life for the soldiers (ie making a 2 person room a 1 person room with more space) which in theory is a good thing, only now we just end up cramming even MORE into the rooms.
The process to get shit built does take too long-story of the Canadian Forces.
I wonder where we would be if 10 years ago everyone just said suck it up, your green combat jean jacket, body armor and helmet work fine.
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