Military Making Pitch to Aboriginal Youth ($1,200 bonus for aboriginals)

[x-grunt]

I don't think anyone on here will disagree that things are tough on some reserves and they face real challenges.   Nobody is trying to discount that fact.

I understand that. No problem here. But I honestly think that the majority of non-natives really don't get the picture. A down and out white person has it tough of course, but native people have to overcome lots more as a rule, then the average non-native. And a lot of northern Natives are trapped in a small fly-in communities with a corrupt council, no work, little prospects and a 90% addiction rate. It's a different world then most Canadians have.

Nonetheless, see my last post where I agree that the CF is not a social welfare agency.

 

[Cloud Cover]

bo ·nus
  1. Something given or paid in addition to what is usual or expected.
  2. A sum of money or an equivalent given to an employee in addition to the employee's usual compensation.

This is a good pick up on the use of lightning rod language by the media. I noticed the CF pers interviewed did not use the word, it was the CBC who described it this way.
I want to see the regs establishing this policy as I hardly think it is a "bonus" or that the $1200 is even intended to be a "bonus."

 

[FastEddy]

[quote author=[color=black][/color]

What ever happened to the days when we joined the Armed Forces, because we wanted to.

 

[1feral1]

Hummm, what about a 'joining bonus' for all, afterwards, everyone is Canadian and are supposed to be equal. I'll be a fence sitter in this decison, but a 'bonus' given because of the colour of ones skin is just not on. With my +18 yrs as a CF member, I worked along side many first nations people, and other minorities no matter what our background was, we had the common colour of our uniforms, and equal respect for each other, after all we were all the same.

Wes

 

[Fishbone Jones]

And a lot of northern Natives are trapped in a small fly-in communities with a corrupt council, no work, little prospects and a 90% addiction rate. It's a different world then most Canadians have.

But it's easier to stay there, collecting the government bribe, than say "Bullshit, I'm not taking this!!" So why don't THEY do something about it, instead of living the status quo, and waiting on US to fix it. I don't buy the argument of the white man's, government's or the tooth fairy's fault. You respect YOURSELF and do what has to be done to raise YOURSELF up, or shut up, and wither on the vine. I owe nobody MY existence, and I bear no fault for their's, and I refuse to be held responsible for their plight. I had nothing to do with it. If you want equal treatment, you fall in line and compete with the rest.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Quote from Michael O'Leary,
While I understand the points being made on the perception of selective opportunities for minorities, and still must acknowledge that the department is held by law to the Employment Equity Act;

.....and if I'm not mistaken, earlier in the thread, the %'s are about bang on.........I know something of the act and I've never read anything to suggest minorities should be over-represented either.......

 

[jmacleod]

Aboriginal and Visable Minorities should not be offered a bonus to enlist and serve in the Canadian
Forces, unless the offer is extended to all potential recruits. There is another area of activity extended
to Aboriginals - the allocation of millions of dollars in access to contracts and sub-contracts to paricipate
in the Maritime Helicopter Project (MHP) a major crown project that generates Industrial Regional
Benefits, designed to offset loss of jobs in Canada, when a major crown purchase goes offshore. We
knew years ago that a special offer to participate in technological support for the MHP would be part
of the contracting process extended to Aboriginals, so we advocated that Aboriginal youth be given
access to technological training, particularly in the aircraft maintenance and overhaul sector as defined
in Canadian Air Regulations (CARS), as well as metal working and machining. There was little response
from bureaucrats in various Federal and Provincial agencies, thus the Aboriginal sector on the
whole in Canada, do not have the skilled or semi skilled resources to respond effectively if at all. We
are all supportive of "equal opportunity", but common sense must prevail. MacLeod

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Hummm, what about a 'joining bonus' for all, afterwards, everyone is Canadian and are supposed to be equal. I'll be a fence sitter in this decison, but a 'bonus' given because of the colour of ones skin is just not on. With my +18 yrs as a CF member, I worked along side many first nations people, and other minorities no matter what our background was, we had the common colour of our uniforms, and equal respect for each other, after all we were all the same.

Wes

Wes I am curious, do the Aus/NZ actively try to recruit (or even entice) the Aboriginals and Maori into their respective armed forces in a manner similiar to this?

 

[Edward Campbell]

Wes I am curious, do the Aus/NZ actively try to recruit (or even entice) the Aboriginals and Maori into their respective armed forces in a manner similiar to this?

Nobody asked me, but ...

My information is a few years old (but post retirement).

First: most Maori are better integrated into NZ society than many rural Canadian aboriginals and, it appears to me, fewer urban Maori are as disadvantaged (for whatever reason) as urban Canadian aboriginals.

Second: the NZ armed forces actively recruit Maori â “ no quotas when I was there last but many incentives.

The NZ armed forces have and promote Maori cultural groups who preserve/demonstrate Maori traditions within ships and units, act as cultural ambassadors when ships/units deploy overseas and provide a social 'base' for young Maori servicemen â “ which includes mentoring and family support.

There is (was, a few years ago) a certain pro-Maori prejudice in the NZ forces. The Maori were a warrior 'race' and the warrior traditions remain strong.  Many, many Maori have excelled in sports and the military and the military likes to think that both it and the individual Maori benefit from a system which preserves and promotes Maori traditions.

There is an anti-Maori warrior culture element in NZ, too.  Many New Zealanders oppose the idea that Maoris are natural warriors, etc â “ it goes against the strong pacifist/isolationist trend amongst many Kiwis â “ the unreconstructed hippies, etc.

If you get a chance to lay alongside a NZ warship, Ex-Dragoon, you will probably be treated to Maori displays, etc.

I met a good many aboriginal NCOs and soldiers (but few officers â “ I cannot recall any) in Australia, but I have no idea how the proportion in the army related to the proportion in society at large.  I do recall being told that the Maori were represented in the NZ forces, all ranks, including officers, at levels above their 'share' of the population.
 

 

[kincanucks]

Oh how I wanted not to get involved in this discussion but perhaps I can add a little perspective to the CF Aboriginal Entry Program (CFAEP) and the Pre-Recruit Training Course (PRTC).  Yes, we give aboriginals 1200 dollars to come to the PRTC but it is only after successful completion of the PRTC that results in a total of 1200 dollars being paid out and broken down as folllows: 200 at the end of the first week and 400 at the end of the second week and the remainder at the end of the course.  They are not paid any other monies for attending the course and if they don't complete the required training then they don't get any money.  So doing something that would be comparable for the people that go through the regular recruiting process training would be that a recruit would only be paid when they successfully completed a week of training and after each subsequent week and if they failed out at any time they would be sent home with nothing.  So to rant and rave that the CF is paying aboriginals a bonus to join the military is pure crap.

To convince a aboriginal person who has a strong sense of community to leave their homes and travel across the country to a strange place for a few weeks is an immense feat that is a credit to our recruiters and their ability.  Imagine the work that would be needed to convince them to leave their community for three years.  Does this program work?, yes.  Does it create an great influx of aboriginals wanting to join the CF full-time?  No, but it is a start and it is a necessity if the CF is going to be a true reflection of our society.  There is much work to be done not only in attracting aboriginals but visible minorities too.

I strongly suggest that many who have posted in this thread should take some time and read and study about aboriginal history in this country and perhaps some education will open your eyes.  It certainly opened mine.

 

[George Wallace]

While an Instructor at the School in the mid '80s, I had the experience of instructing two Inuit candidates.   There are problems that the CF, and the rest of Canadian Society, experience when recruiting from some of our more remote communities.   Even today, there will be a great "cultural shock" experienced by such candidates who come from some of our more remote northern communities to the way that we 'Southerners' live.   We have been experimenting for years to come up with a working system to bring these people into 'our society' and understand 'our ways'.

 

[TCBF]

I was a MCpl teaching recruits at CFRS Cornwallis in the fall of 1984.  Our serial in 10 Pl - Ser 8448 I think - was split by the Christmas Holidays.  Everyone got sent away on leave.  Some got SA 'flips'.  Most travelled commercial.  We had an Inuit who would have needed to mortgage the entire Annapolis Valley to pay for his airfare home.  It was astronomical, and you can't drive to Frobisher Bay.  The recruits in the platoon 'passed the hat' and took up a collection to help him get home.

In 1997, I was a Pl Comd teaching recruits at CFLRS St. Jean.  We had a PD day on Recruit Demographics and Culture, and I got to sit at a table with a Mohawk elder from the Kanawake Reserve south of Montreal  (Mercier Bridge during the Oka crisis - that IR).  She was a very interesting lady.  We talked about program and recruiting access.  I was convinced then - as now - that recruiters as a whole would rather visit Biafra than a Canadian IR.

She said:  "I wish the Armed Forces would hire more of my people." 

We have lots of money for studies, focus groups, consultants, glossy pamplets and news releases, but none for recruiting visits and targeted recruiting plans.

Remember Davis Inlet?  Canada built them a new village.  New village - old problems.  Some kid was being sent back to Neu-Davis and cried in the arms of his social worker the night before he had to go back.  A few months after being re-immersed into the local solvent-sniffing culture - he suicided.

We need a new  'Boy Soldier'  program.  I know, never happen, child soldiers and all that.  Well, we need a program that can pull Canadians - including Aboriginals - out of bad situations.  Waiting until they are seventeen is too late.  What about a year-round Army Cadet program?

No, I don't think of the CAF as a social welfare agency. I think of it as an org that has to compete not only with civvie occupations for talent, but also has to compete with plastic hoodies full of a fuel/air mixture. 

I say we let the recruiters get there first.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If the payment is in lieu of a regular wage for attendance on the orientation course, then "bonus" is an unfair characterization.

To judge by other comments elsewhere, perhaps more prospective recruits would benefit from such an orientation course.  The issue is whether the CF wants to try to retain urbanites who can be off-put merely by the cultural shock of basic training.

 

[mbhabfan]

I think a program such as this is a very valuable one...however I am still stuck on the race thing.  This type of program could be used to help any Canadian in certain situations.  It isn't a bonus it is a wage, thanks for clarifying that Kincanucks.  I haven't heard one good reason why this type of program should be limited to aboriginals.  If this were reversed and was for innercity white kids who have had it rough the media would be all over it for being a racial policy.  My point is that racism is racism no matter which way it is.

 

[rcr]

If the payment is in lieu of a regular wage for attendance on the orientation course, then "bonus" is an unfair characterization.

To judge by other comments elsewhere, perhaps more prospective recruits would benefit from such an orientation course.   The issue is whether the CF wants to try to retain urbanites who can be off-put merely by the cultural shock of basic training.

I have many friends from various backgrounds who have asked if such a program exists.  A few days or weeks to be involved on some level with the CF to see what it's all about before making their decision.  Though I am an outsider, I think such a program would be beneficial to the recruiting drive.  Not trying to hijack the topic here.

 

[NCRCrow]

This program with the bonus was done in 1990, and the potential aboriginal recruits went to Summerside, PEI (3 weeks) and then had the choice of coming to beautiful Cornwallis.(which many did)

It worked because they started as a group and finished as one. It was then to trades training after.

They were good soldiers and recruits and we won most of sports pennants. Sadly, I have not seen any of the aboriginal recruits (friends) in my travels since around 1993.

9034 Forged as One

 

[Brad Sallows]

>A few days or weeks to be involved on some level with the CF to see what it's all about before making their decision.

Back when we had easy enrollment procedures into the Reserve and SYEP, we had something like that.

 

[Sapper Bloggins]

But it's easier to stay there, collecting the government bribe, than say "Bullshit, I'm not taking this!!" So why don't THEY do something about it, instead of living the status quo, and waiting on US to fix it. I don't buy the argument of the white man's, government's or the tooth fairy's fault. You respect YOURSELF and do what has to be done to raise YOURSELF up, or shut up, and wither on the vine. I owe nobody MY existence, and I bear no fault for their's, and I refuse to be held responsible for their plight. I had nothing to do with it. If you want equal treatment, you fall in line and compete with the rest.

Couldn't agree more recceguy, you took the words right out of my mouth.
I'm all for diversity, but this tradition of belligerent self-pity has gotten real old.

 

[NavComm]

....  Yes, we give aboriginals 1200 dollars to come to the PRTC but it is only after successful completion of the PRTC that results in a total of 1200 dollars being paid out and broken down as folllows: 200 at the end of the first week and 400 at the end of the second week and the remainder at the end of the course.  They are not paid any other monies for attending the course and if they don't complete the required training then they don't get any money.  So doing something that would be comparable for the people that go through the regular recruiting process training would be that a recruit would only be paid when they successfully completed a week of training and after each subsequent week and if they failed out at any time they would be sent home with nothing.  So to rant and rave that the CF is paying aboriginals a bonus to join the military is pure crap.

That's still three weeks longer than other recruits get, and shouldn't everyone be given the chance to have the little pre-test to determine if the military life is for them?

To convince a aboriginal person who has a strong sense of community to leave their homes and travel across the country to a strange place for a few weeks is an immense feat that is a credit to our recruiters and their ability.  Imagine the work that would be needed to convince them to leave their community for three years.

I should think that would apply to any young person leaving home and community for the first time, strong sense of community is not exclusive to aboriginal youth living in remote communities.

  Does this program work?, yes.  Does it create an great influx of aboriginals wanting to join the CF full-time?  No, but it is a start and it is a necessity if the CF is going to be a true reflection of our society.

But if statitistics earlier posted here are correct, aboriginals are already represented fairly, and further, other than to fill quotas what is the point? I like the idea of spending that money to open recruiting centres in less populated areas or sending recruiters to remote areas to contact all people living in remote areas, not just aboriginal peoples. One army, one colour.

I strongly suggest that many who have posted in this thread should take some time and read and study about aboriginal history in this country and perhaps some education will open your eyes.  It certainly opened mine.

Admittedly aboriginal people have suffered a great deal. But they have also been given much in the way of support. I just see this program as a real slippery slope. There are plenty of minority groups that will claim prior bad acts should afford them the same treatment. What about descendants of japanese canadians who were interred during WWII? What about the Irish who were fed a steady diet of racism in this country? At least in the military we should be able to show our true multi-culturalism by not allowing any one group to claim more disadvantage than any other. IMHO

 

[1feral1]

Wes I am curious, do the Aus/NZ actively try to recruit (or even entice) the Aboriginals and Maori into their respective armed forces in a manner similiar to this?

In Australia many northern units are highly composed of Aboriginies, do a search for the Far North Queensland Regiment, many of the units are Active Reserve, and are actually on operations when out deep in the bush. Many Aboriginals too, are in the regular army also, and I was worked with amny over the years. Good soldiers!

I have also trained along side the "En Zed" Army, and I have seen some Maori too. So I don't know if they are singled out for recruiting, but the live local and want to be part of it.

But no race related joining bountys here.

Cheers,

Wes