Military Making Pitch to Aboriginal Youth ($1,200 bonus for aboriginals)
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BeadWindow said:
WRT isolated natives
Rural Saskatchewan has a large population of Indians.
I take you have not been on the streets of Regina, Saskatoon, and Prince Albert in Saskatchewan, all which have an abundant qty of Reserve Units ( Inf, Arty, CSS, Medical, Sigs, etc). Plenty of native youth 'rotting' (and others) in these cities and surrounding districts. Any 'youth' can simply enquire at these locs, plus many surrounding towns have access to local cadet corps, and many Indian reserves even have their own Corps too.
Bold Eagles primarily recruited out of Saskatchewan.
No private jets required.
S
Sapper Bloggins
Guest
TCBF said:
I suppose you may be delving a little too deep...
All I was trying to convey is that these recruiting objectives have been defined by complexity. Capiche?
out.
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http://www.lookoutnewspaper.com/archive/20060925/3.shtml
Aboriginals taste military life during three-week program
Melissa Atkinson
Editor
September 25, 2006
A platoon of First Nations people in the Aboriginal Entry Program pause for a photo during a field exercise. There are 57 attendees currently at Work Point getting a three-week glimpse into the Canadian Forces and a possible career.
The Canadian Forces Aboriginal Entry Program has the look and feel of basic recruit training, but without the uniform or rank, or the commitment to the Canadian Forces.
Instead of signing up and heading to St. Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, for military training, Aboriginal men and women can get “a taste” of military training before making the CF a part of their future, says CPO2 Deb Eisan, Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Staff Officer for Aboriginal Peoples.
Fifty-seven Aboriginal men and women are currently at Work Point trialing service life for three weeks.
Dressed in a black T-shirt and combat pants and boots, each candidate has the opportunity to try drill, weapons handling, rappelling and field survival, and learn about military culture and rank structure to see if they’d like a career with the Canadian Forces.
“Many people live in remote areas and this is a chance for them to get a taste of the military,” says CPO2 Eisan, who came from Halifax to run the Work Point program.
The program is a regular force recruiting initiative designed to increase the number of status, non-status, Metis and Inuit people in the military. The percentage currently hovers around 1.4 per cent, or about 1,275 CF members.
Elements of the 13-week basic recruit training course taken at Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu have been condensed into the three-week program. It introduces Aboriginal candidates to some of the mental skills and physical fitness needed to meet military operational requirements.
The course is normally held once a year in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu, but a rise in basic military qualification recruits has left no room to house the Aboriginal attendees.
Work Point was the next best option.
Instructors received a special weeklong Aboriginal cultural awareness training, which Chief Eisan says gives them background into First Nations, Inuit and Metis history, and sensitivity to their culture and religion.
Aboriginal counselors were contracted to help attendees deal with issues of culture shock and homesickness. Many attendees came from small, remote villages in northern Canada, and traveling to Victoria was their first time stepping outside North of 60.
“I told the recruits the bravest thing they have done will not be rappelling down 31 feet, but stepping onto the plane and coming here. Facing the fear of the unknown and leaving their families. Aboriginal families are tight knit,” says Chief Eisan.
The attendees, with ages ranging from 17 to 50, were divided into two platoons and housed in Work Point barracks. Graduation is next Friday at the Naden Drill Deck, at which time they can choose to join the regular force. Enrolment rate at the end of the program is between 30-35 per cent.
“The military is a good, viable career choice for aboriginal peoples. I couldn’t do this job in recruiting if I didn’t see this as a good career choice for Aboriginal peoples,” she says.
CPO2 Deb Eisan is an Ojibway woman with 32 years in the navy.
“I certainly haven’t looked back with any regrets. As an Ojibway woman from Batchewana First Nations in Northern Ontario, I never dreamed of travelling to Europe, or having the chance to make a presentation to the President of Antigua.”
Regardless of whether they choose a career in the CF, aboriginal candidates on the pre-recruit training course receive a $1,200 bonus for trying the program.
Aboriginals taste military life during three-week program
Melissa Atkinson
Editor
September 25, 2006
A platoon of First Nations people in the Aboriginal Entry Program pause for a photo during a field exercise. There are 57 attendees currently at Work Point getting a three-week glimpse into the Canadian Forces and a possible career.
The Canadian Forces Aboriginal Entry Program has the look and feel of basic recruit training, but without the uniform or rank, or the commitment to the Canadian Forces.
Instead of signing up and heading to St. Jean-sur-Richelieu, Quebec, for military training, Aboriginal men and women can get “a taste” of military training before making the CF a part of their future, says CPO2 Deb Eisan, Canadian Forces Recruiting Group Staff Officer for Aboriginal Peoples.
Fifty-seven Aboriginal men and women are currently at Work Point trialing service life for three weeks.
Dressed in a black T-shirt and combat pants and boots, each candidate has the opportunity to try drill, weapons handling, rappelling and field survival, and learn about military culture and rank structure to see if they’d like a career with the Canadian Forces.
“Many people live in remote areas and this is a chance for them to get a taste of the military,” says CPO2 Eisan, who came from Halifax to run the Work Point program.
The program is a regular force recruiting initiative designed to increase the number of status, non-status, Metis and Inuit people in the military. The percentage currently hovers around 1.4 per cent, or about 1,275 CF members.
Elements of the 13-week basic recruit training course taken at Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu have been condensed into the three-week program. It introduces Aboriginal candidates to some of the mental skills and physical fitness needed to meet military operational requirements.
The course is normally held once a year in St. Jean-sur-Richelieu, but a rise in basic military qualification recruits has left no room to house the Aboriginal attendees.
Work Point was the next best option.
Instructors received a special weeklong Aboriginal cultural awareness training, which Chief Eisan says gives them background into First Nations, Inuit and Metis history, and sensitivity to their culture and religion.
Aboriginal counselors were contracted to help attendees deal with issues of culture shock and homesickness. Many attendees came from small, remote villages in northern Canada, and traveling to Victoria was their first time stepping outside North of 60.
“I told the recruits the bravest thing they have done will not be rappelling down 31 feet, but stepping onto the plane and coming here. Facing the fear of the unknown and leaving their families. Aboriginal families are tight knit,” says Chief Eisan.
The attendees, with ages ranging from 17 to 50, were divided into two platoons and housed in Work Point barracks. Graduation is next Friday at the Naden Drill Deck, at which time they can choose to join the regular force. Enrolment rate at the end of the program is between 30-35 per cent.
“The military is a good, viable career choice for aboriginal peoples. I couldn’t do this job in recruiting if I didn’t see this as a good career choice for Aboriginal peoples,” she says.
CPO2 Deb Eisan is an Ojibway woman with 32 years in the navy.
“I certainly haven’t looked back with any regrets. As an Ojibway woman from Batchewana First Nations in Northern Ontario, I never dreamed of travelling to Europe, or having the chance to make a presentation to the President of Antigua.”
Regardless of whether they choose a career in the CF, aboriginal candidates on the pre-recruit training course receive a $1,200 bonus for trying the program.
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Interesting read,
I cant but wonder why we are still trying to recruit from specific groups, it has always failed why waste the time and money. I think that a better idea would be to do this program for all youth. Much like the old YTEP program. The program laid out above for the aboriginal youth sounds great but IMHO it should not focus on any specific group other than youth.
I cant but wonder why we are still trying to recruit from specific groups, it has always failed why waste the time and money. I think that a better idea would be to do this program for all youth. Much like the old YTEP program. The program laid out above for the aboriginal youth sounds great but IMHO it should not focus on any specific group other than youth.
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It is a good program.And to compare rural youth from lets say cape breton to Inuu people is not close.Differnt culture and a good program.
Would like to see numbers of how many we retain,I know a few that just left after they finished battle school.
Hope it works.
Would like to see numbers of how many we retain,I know a few that just left after they finished battle school.
Hope it works.
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Wow, this is quite the fascinating read and was interesting to see everyone's input regarding this. Maybe as someone who has participated in this program, I can give you "the other side" of the story.
(And, a quick hello to any PRTC staff out there who may read this!)
Anyways, let me clear up a few things about the program as I feel I am (somewhat) qualified to provide, having lived it and having read through the six pages of commentary.
[list type=decimal]
[*]Are we Native/Indan/Aboriginal/First Nation...? I prefer to call myself Indigenous but each person is different. To each his own...
[*]Let's clear up this "green card" status business. You self-identify as aboriginal. Doesn't matter if you're Full Status (Treaty native), Non-Status (non-treaty native),Metis, Inuit or 1/100th native. Not all natives have treaty "rights". I will use that term "rights" loosely but this isn't a thread on politics of this though feel free to PM me about this. I am a non-status indigenous person with roots in aboriginal and "European" culture. This is NOT metis. Metis are a particular group with historical attachment to the Red River community.
[*]What are our backgrounds? My 'platoon' mates came from all kinds of backgrounds. Some lived in the woods with no electricity, others came from far remote reserves, some were urban, some were rural, some had backgrounds where drugs and alcohol were prevalent and others came from relatively 'normal' (ie, white society context) backgrounds. We are all different and yet, the same. Kind of like the 'white' culture, eh? We have diversity amongst our own people too...
[*]The "BONUS" of $1200. I loved the conversation regarding this... and thus, I'll share what I think about this with you since you all kindly shared your thoughts with the rest of us! As pointed out, the "bonus" is split up like a real paycheque as it would happen in basic. Whoops! Did I just say that? YES, it's treated like a paycheque. Some of you pointed out that many of us just sit around, collecting the dole and living the high life on reserves. You've obviously never been to a reserve. I taught at one as an aboriginal teacher who came from the city. I'd like you to imagine the worst stories you have heard and then times that by ten. That's how the reserve was, where I was at. NOTE! Not ALL of us come from places like that. So, don't generalise all of us into the same heap of pile. All of the non-status, "Metis" and such, do NOT receive any government "doled" money. I was unemployed at the time and this money really helped me out. I have bills to pay, just like you. I have student loans to pay, like many of you. I worked hard each and every day on that course to learn what it's like to be a soldier. And, soldiers get paid, right? Why wouldn't I? If you go on and on and on about how so many of "us" get freebie money, wouldn't you like some of us to experience (some for the first time) how AWESOME it is to be handed money we worked hard and earned??? You want "us" to appreciate the dollar of a hard-earned wage? Then let us enjoy it. Let us send that money home to our families so that we can buy food, pay rent, keep the hydro on and keep ourselves above float. Do you remember the first time someone handed you $200 for your hard work? Did you not have a big freakin' grin on your face? And did you not feel good? Did you not want to keep working hard and continue to bring that money in? Some of us come from places where there IS NO WORK AT ALL. I saw the grins on those kids faces as they stepped up to a table and got handed a big wad of cash (which was promptly spent at the Canex so we can get our supplies necessary!!!)
[*]Culture Shock: Some of us come from isolated places. Some of us have never seen a shopping mall. Some of us have never been to a science centre or a museum. Some of us have never seen trees taller than 4 feet. Some of us have never been away from our families. Our families include the entire community sometimes. Some of us have never left the reserve. Some of us, grew up in cities and have been so urbanized, we didn't realise how our brothers and sisters in other communities live... (will talk more about this in a second)... three weeks is long enough to get homesick (some for the first time). It's long enough to find out what it's like to be yelled at (when many of us come from communities where yelling is considered more violent than hitting as well as swearing)... the first time someone yells at you, do you want to break down at basic training? Or, would you like it to be in a place where you have your brothers and sisters around you to help you sort things out. Your culture is different than our culture and this is a way to help us adjust... it's not a way for us to assimilate, it's a way for us to adjust. I guarantee you right now, there are folk from my platoon who are at basic training who will NOT break down and quit because they had this three-week introduction. They will succeed at basic, because they went to this course. THAT alone is worth $1200 to the army, isn't it? The cost of sending a drop-out back I am sure costs more than this program. Value for money.
[*]"Warriors" in the truest way... many of us come from long lines of "warriors". Example is Tom Longboat and many other First Nation veterans. There's thousands of them. But, some of them (my family for instance) goes back hundreds of years. Some of us, it's in our blood. We want to protect our country. We're willing to die for it. But sometimes, that brings conflict. Who are we fighting for? Our people? Or "White" Canada? Or, the land? Some of us are conflicted about this and we need our brothers and sisters with like-minded goals, to discuss this. Some of us are conflicted.... myself included. We want to fight for the right reason. The first blood spilled on these lands were ours, protecting it from the European invaders. It's been mostly our blood lost... some of us do not want to kill... but obviously, that's something that could inevitably be part of our job, right? Some of us come from nations where peace and love are pillars of our being. Others are from communities with more of a fighting warrior spirit. But, in the end... we all want to protect Canada. So, these three weeks allows us to meet one another, discuss this and decide if joining the forces is what we want to do.
[*]We come from a variety of backgrounds educationally. Some of us haven't finished highschool. Some of us are already working but know that we could do better for our families. Barely sustaining a life in a community that suffers so much from whatever turmoil it's going for, is hard. We are people just like you who may have families... we all want the best for our children, right? This course allows some of us to experience for the first time, a knowledge that we are capable of doing something more outside of our bubble. We have so many people talking down to us, that many of us have believed everything you tell us. That we're dumb, that we're a bunch of alchies, that we're useless and should just live off the gov't like so many of our families have had to. But, our kids are just like your kids. They deserve just as much of a bright future that yours does. And for some of us, we don't have the opportunity to step outside of our community to experience life like you do. Many of the people on my course had children... some have babies... some have babies on the way... some are taking care of their siblings... some are homeless. But, I will guarantee you that THOSE situations only drive the fire that much more within ourselves, to REALLY make this work.
[*]How successful is this program? Let's see... all but ONE of the recruits had the intention of going back home and signing up. Some are going reserves, some are going reg force... some are going to go officer and attend RMC... some are doing other forms of entry.... one or two were qualified to go direct entry officer... and the one who wasn't going to sign up? He's signing up for RCMP so he's got a heart to protect his community and is the ONE guy I can totally see as an infanteer. I'm still trying to convince him to go reg force and trust me... if you were with his platoon, I would GUARANTEE you that he is the one guy who would do anything to protect you or to go beyond to ensure an objective is met. I would consider that a pretty good success rate, right?
[*]Do all of these members join? Who knows. It can vary. Some may get home and decide that the army life isn't for them. Some can't leave yet... maybe next year. Others signed up right away and had their BMQ dates given before they even left. Others have to wait (like myself) until April like everyone else, for their trades to open.
[*]To the guy who said, "if $1200 keeps someone from a community that sniffs glue" or something along that lines... I have to tell you... some of these guys (and girls) came in with zero confidence in themselves. No one ever had faith in them. But our staff (while sometimes appearing mean!) were actually very aware of this and while they yelled sometimes, they also provided encouragement at the right times as well. I can guarantee you people attended that course who were heading down very dark paths, have now the confidence to go down a much better path. That's the best $1200 you ever spent, believe me!
[*]How come white folk don't get this amazing opportunity? I agree. Most of us on the course, stated that EVERYONE should have this opportunity. And you know what? If we have YOUR support and can prove that this kind of program DOES work with recruiting and retention rates, maybe it could one day be applied across the board to other groups... yea, white folk too! Let us be the guinea pigs (it wouldn't be the first time, right?) and prove how demographic-specific recruitment programs CAN be beneficial to all folk. I know that farming communities could benefit from this... having come from a farming community as well which happens to be SURROUNDING a freakin' CFB Base (Petawawa). How many good, strong farmboys are recruited? How can rural farm life translate to the army? What skills do they have (growing up around machinery, production, supply, etc.) that could be brought to the forces? And afterwards? I bet you could get a lot of awesome mechanics, drivers and command leaders out of little Farmer Joe down in the Pembroke region. Hell, he's been driving a stick since he was 9 years old! So yea, I agree... and most of us agreed in the course, that this kind of program would benefit ALL recruits from ALL backgrounds.
[/list]
Okay, I think I addressed most of the issues that many of you had. Feel free to ask me ANYTHING and I'll try to explain it as a participant could explain it. Maybe one of the instructors/staff could answer some of the things I either perceived as wrong or that a mere, ordinary mortal civilian can't answer fully.
I realise that I probably "outed" myself by responding to this thread. But that is okay I suppose... if it helps the program continue, or if it helps with gaining support from people who may not be fully informed with it, then it's worth being "outed".
Now, if this mega-sized message isn't long enough, I'd like to quickly share my background with you.
I'm an aboriginal applicant to the forces who is non-status. For those who think natives get free education, I would like you to know I am the proud (and responsible) owner of nearly $40 000 in student loans. I have a diploma in Print Journalism and a certificate in Multimedia. I have worked in the public-sector under the auspices of the WSIB (provincial workers comp in Ontario) for 5 years. I left work to finish my degree (which I started part-time while working) and to support my common-law spouse who is in the army. I followed him to Petawawa where we were posted for the past three years. While there, I finished my bachelor of arts and my bachelor of education. I have owned my own business for 12 years in graphic design. When I separated from him this past spring, I decided to join the army. I've since lost 50 pounds (well, 275 if you count my ex!!), moved to a new community, started a new life and have fought very hard to overcome challenges to join the forces. I mentioned that some of us have aboriginal warrior history... several hundreds of years worth but I also have European and Canadian "warriors" with my Grandpa Scotty (Scottish Highlander, POW of 3 years in North Africa), Great-Grandpa Wright (Originally listed MIA, later POW, WWI) and several other relatives. My brother is also currently in the forces. I am also strongly interested in First Nation relations within government and believe I am a good judge of what is crap and what isn't crap when it comes to federally implemented aboriginal programs. I consider myself perhaps the biggest skeptic of all when I took the course... I took part in the PRTC program for the three weeks and am grateful for the opportunity.Starting a new career at the age of 31 isn't easy and joining one that is so foreign to everything that I have ever done was quite a scary prospect. But I knew the moment I arrived (and definitely solidified it the day we got to shoot the C7s and then the three days of staying at the FOB while it was drenched wet and then blowing snow... and not hearing a single person complain about it ... including myself!!!...) that I was where I was supposed to be. We felt like a family -- some of us have never felt that before -- and all of us helped each other out. We all pretty well knew we could hack the army life and most of us made that decision the first week, to do this. Our staff was pretty excellent and by the end of it all... well, I'll quote someone. "When we came here, we were scared of you. (The staff)... but now? We know you are just like us and you are human, just like us." Some of us haven't had great experiences with white culture... and this for many, was a turning point in knowing that we really CAN work as a team... native and non-native... and that we all have something to offer. There is no way I could ever be an infanteer. But, there are other things that my 12 years of being in the workforce, CAN bring to the table. And this program allowed me to realise that. So, as a merit-listed candidate who is waiting for her trade to open, the army is about to win big by scoring a person with 7 years post-secondary education, 12 years of work-experience and a lot of real-world experience.
Tell me? Was it worth my $1200 "bonus" (a.k.a., pay cheque upon completion of the program) to the Canadian Forces?
You tell me.
Thanks for listening! And... hope this clears up anything. If you got questions, please ask.
P.S. I'd like to say to add as I previously stated, that as the greatest skeptic of the course, that I think it has a place. I felt it culturally appropriate. I know the army life well enough as a spouse, to know how it works and I felt it was realistic in how it presented the forces to the candidates. The army life wasn't sugar-coated. There are points that could be worked on within' the program (as all programs often have) but nothing dire or out of place. I would... as the original skeptic to how well this program was run for the purpose it was created, would recommend this to other aboriginal applicants.
P.P.S. I have not received any special monies for pumping the program. No kickbacks have been provided. No additional bonuses have been issued nor small-pox infested blankets. No extra land has been provided. No extra beef stroganoff ration packs have been given nor did I get special TV privileges! I would however, not be opposed to it!! (Well, maybe the small-pox blanket, you can keep that!)
And... God Almighty, I still pay the 15% tax on everything just like you!!!!
(And, a quick hello to any PRTC staff out there who may read this!)
Anyways, let me clear up a few things about the program as I feel I am (somewhat) qualified to provide, having lived it and having read through the six pages of commentary.
[list type=decimal]
[*]Are we Native/Indan/Aboriginal/First Nation...? I prefer to call myself Indigenous but each person is different. To each his own...
[*]Let's clear up this "green card" status business. You self-identify as aboriginal. Doesn't matter if you're Full Status (Treaty native), Non-Status (non-treaty native),Metis, Inuit or 1/100th native. Not all natives have treaty "rights". I will use that term "rights" loosely but this isn't a thread on politics of this though feel free to PM me about this. I am a non-status indigenous person with roots in aboriginal and "European" culture. This is NOT metis. Metis are a particular group with historical attachment to the Red River community.
[*]What are our backgrounds? My 'platoon' mates came from all kinds of backgrounds. Some lived in the woods with no electricity, others came from far remote reserves, some were urban, some were rural, some had backgrounds where drugs and alcohol were prevalent and others came from relatively 'normal' (ie, white society context) backgrounds. We are all different and yet, the same. Kind of like the 'white' culture, eh? We have diversity amongst our own people too...
[*]The "BONUS" of $1200. I loved the conversation regarding this... and thus, I'll share what I think about this with you since you all kindly shared your thoughts with the rest of us! As pointed out, the "bonus" is split up like a real paycheque as it would happen in basic. Whoops! Did I just say that? YES, it's treated like a paycheque. Some of you pointed out that many of us just sit around, collecting the dole and living the high life on reserves. You've obviously never been to a reserve. I taught at one as an aboriginal teacher who came from the city. I'd like you to imagine the worst stories you have heard and then times that by ten. That's how the reserve was, where I was at. NOTE! Not ALL of us come from places like that. So, don't generalise all of us into the same heap of pile. All of the non-status, "Metis" and such, do NOT receive any government "doled" money. I was unemployed at the time and this money really helped me out. I have bills to pay, just like you. I have student loans to pay, like many of you. I worked hard each and every day on that course to learn what it's like to be a soldier. And, soldiers get paid, right? Why wouldn't I? If you go on and on and on about how so many of "us" get freebie money, wouldn't you like some of us to experience (some for the first time) how AWESOME it is to be handed money we worked hard and earned??? You want "us" to appreciate the dollar of a hard-earned wage? Then let us enjoy it. Let us send that money home to our families so that we can buy food, pay rent, keep the hydro on and keep ourselves above float. Do you remember the first time someone handed you $200 for your hard work? Did you not have a big freakin' grin on your face? And did you not feel good? Did you not want to keep working hard and continue to bring that money in? Some of us come from places where there IS NO WORK AT ALL. I saw the grins on those kids faces as they stepped up to a table and got handed a big wad of cash (which was promptly spent at the Canex so we can get our supplies necessary!!!)
[*]Culture Shock: Some of us come from isolated places. Some of us have never seen a shopping mall. Some of us have never been to a science centre or a museum. Some of us have never seen trees taller than 4 feet. Some of us have never been away from our families. Our families include the entire community sometimes. Some of us have never left the reserve. Some of us, grew up in cities and have been so urbanized, we didn't realise how our brothers and sisters in other communities live... (will talk more about this in a second)... three weeks is long enough to get homesick (some for the first time). It's long enough to find out what it's like to be yelled at (when many of us come from communities where yelling is considered more violent than hitting as well as swearing)... the first time someone yells at you, do you want to break down at basic training? Or, would you like it to be in a place where you have your brothers and sisters around you to help you sort things out. Your culture is different than our culture and this is a way to help us adjust... it's not a way for us to assimilate, it's a way for us to adjust. I guarantee you right now, there are folk from my platoon who are at basic training who will NOT break down and quit because they had this three-week introduction. They will succeed at basic, because they went to this course. THAT alone is worth $1200 to the army, isn't it? The cost of sending a drop-out back I am sure costs more than this program. Value for money.
[*]"Warriors" in the truest way... many of us come from long lines of "warriors". Example is Tom Longboat and many other First Nation veterans. There's thousands of them. But, some of them (my family for instance) goes back hundreds of years. Some of us, it's in our blood. We want to protect our country. We're willing to die for it. But sometimes, that brings conflict. Who are we fighting for? Our people? Or "White" Canada? Or, the land? Some of us are conflicted about this and we need our brothers and sisters with like-minded goals, to discuss this. Some of us are conflicted.... myself included. We want to fight for the right reason. The first blood spilled on these lands were ours, protecting it from the European invaders. It's been mostly our blood lost... some of us do not want to kill... but obviously, that's something that could inevitably be part of our job, right? Some of us come from nations where peace and love are pillars of our being. Others are from communities with more of a fighting warrior spirit. But, in the end... we all want to protect Canada. So, these three weeks allows us to meet one another, discuss this and decide if joining the forces is what we want to do.
[*]We come from a variety of backgrounds educationally. Some of us haven't finished highschool. Some of us are already working but know that we could do better for our families. Barely sustaining a life in a community that suffers so much from whatever turmoil it's going for, is hard. We are people just like you who may have families... we all want the best for our children, right? This course allows some of us to experience for the first time, a knowledge that we are capable of doing something more outside of our bubble. We have so many people talking down to us, that many of us have believed everything you tell us. That we're dumb, that we're a bunch of alchies, that we're useless and should just live off the gov't like so many of our families have had to. But, our kids are just like your kids. They deserve just as much of a bright future that yours does. And for some of us, we don't have the opportunity to step outside of our community to experience life like you do. Many of the people on my course had children... some have babies... some have babies on the way... some are taking care of their siblings... some are homeless. But, I will guarantee you that THOSE situations only drive the fire that much more within ourselves, to REALLY make this work.
[*]How successful is this program? Let's see... all but ONE of the recruits had the intention of going back home and signing up. Some are going reserves, some are going reg force... some are going to go officer and attend RMC... some are doing other forms of entry.... one or two were qualified to go direct entry officer... and the one who wasn't going to sign up? He's signing up for RCMP so he's got a heart to protect his community and is the ONE guy I can totally see as an infanteer. I'm still trying to convince him to go reg force and trust me... if you were with his platoon, I would GUARANTEE you that he is the one guy who would do anything to protect you or to go beyond to ensure an objective is met. I would consider that a pretty good success rate, right?
[*]Do all of these members join? Who knows. It can vary. Some may get home and decide that the army life isn't for them. Some can't leave yet... maybe next year. Others signed up right away and had their BMQ dates given before they even left. Others have to wait (like myself) until April like everyone else, for their trades to open.
[*]To the guy who said, "if $1200 keeps someone from a community that sniffs glue" or something along that lines... I have to tell you... some of these guys (and girls) came in with zero confidence in themselves. No one ever had faith in them. But our staff (while sometimes appearing mean!) were actually very aware of this and while they yelled sometimes, they also provided encouragement at the right times as well. I can guarantee you people attended that course who were heading down very dark paths, have now the confidence to go down a much better path. That's the best $1200 you ever spent, believe me!
[*]How come white folk don't get this amazing opportunity? I agree. Most of us on the course, stated that EVERYONE should have this opportunity. And you know what? If we have YOUR support and can prove that this kind of program DOES work with recruiting and retention rates, maybe it could one day be applied across the board to other groups... yea, white folk too! Let us be the guinea pigs (it wouldn't be the first time, right?) and prove how demographic-specific recruitment programs CAN be beneficial to all folk. I know that farming communities could benefit from this... having come from a farming community as well which happens to be SURROUNDING a freakin' CFB Base (Petawawa). How many good, strong farmboys are recruited? How can rural farm life translate to the army? What skills do they have (growing up around machinery, production, supply, etc.) that could be brought to the forces? And afterwards? I bet you could get a lot of awesome mechanics, drivers and command leaders out of little Farmer Joe down in the Pembroke region. Hell, he's been driving a stick since he was 9 years old! So yea, I agree... and most of us agreed in the course, that this kind of program would benefit ALL recruits from ALL backgrounds.
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Okay, I think I addressed most of the issues that many of you had. Feel free to ask me ANYTHING and I'll try to explain it as a participant could explain it. Maybe one of the instructors/staff could answer some of the things I either perceived as wrong or that a mere, ordinary mortal civilian can't answer fully.
I realise that I probably "outed" myself by responding to this thread. But that is okay I suppose... if it helps the program continue, or if it helps with gaining support from people who may not be fully informed with it, then it's worth being "outed".
Now, if this mega-sized message isn't long enough, I'd like to quickly share my background with you.
I'm an aboriginal applicant to the forces who is non-status. For those who think natives get free education, I would like you to know I am the proud (and responsible) owner of nearly $40 000 in student loans. I have a diploma in Print Journalism and a certificate in Multimedia. I have worked in the public-sector under the auspices of the WSIB (provincial workers comp in Ontario) for 5 years. I left work to finish my degree (which I started part-time while working) and to support my common-law spouse who is in the army. I followed him to Petawawa where we were posted for the past three years. While there, I finished my bachelor of arts and my bachelor of education. I have owned my own business for 12 years in graphic design. When I separated from him this past spring, I decided to join the army. I've since lost 50 pounds (well, 275 if you count my ex!!), moved to a new community, started a new life and have fought very hard to overcome challenges to join the forces. I mentioned that some of us have aboriginal warrior history... several hundreds of years worth but I also have European and Canadian "warriors" with my Grandpa Scotty (Scottish Highlander, POW of 3 years in North Africa), Great-Grandpa Wright (Originally listed MIA, later POW, WWI) and several other relatives. My brother is also currently in the forces. I am also strongly interested in First Nation relations within government and believe I am a good judge of what is crap and what isn't crap when it comes to federally implemented aboriginal programs. I consider myself perhaps the biggest skeptic of all when I took the course... I took part in the PRTC program for the three weeks and am grateful for the opportunity.Starting a new career at the age of 31 isn't easy and joining one that is so foreign to everything that I have ever done was quite a scary prospect. But I knew the moment I arrived (and definitely solidified it the day we got to shoot the C7s and then the three days of staying at the FOB while it was drenched wet and then blowing snow... and not hearing a single person complain about it ... including myself!!!...) that I was where I was supposed to be. We felt like a family -- some of us have never felt that before -- and all of us helped each other out. We all pretty well knew we could hack the army life and most of us made that decision the first week, to do this. Our staff was pretty excellent and by the end of it all... well, I'll quote someone. "When we came here, we were scared of you. (The staff)... but now? We know you are just like us and you are human, just like us." Some of us haven't had great experiences with white culture... and this for many, was a turning point in knowing that we really CAN work as a team... native and non-native... and that we all have something to offer. There is no way I could ever be an infanteer. But, there are other things that my 12 years of being in the workforce, CAN bring to the table. And this program allowed me to realise that. So, as a merit-listed candidate who is waiting for her trade to open, the army is about to win big by scoring a person with 7 years post-secondary education, 12 years of work-experience and a lot of real-world experience.
Tell me? Was it worth my $1200 "bonus" (a.k.a., pay cheque upon completion of the program) to the Canadian Forces?
You tell me.
Thanks for listening! And... hope this clears up anything. If you got questions, please ask.
P.S. I'd like to say to add as I previously stated, that as the greatest skeptic of the course, that I think it has a place. I felt it culturally appropriate. I know the army life well enough as a spouse, to know how it works and I felt it was realistic in how it presented the forces to the candidates. The army life wasn't sugar-coated. There are points that could be worked on within' the program (as all programs often have) but nothing dire or out of place. I would... as the original skeptic to how well this program was run for the purpose it was created, would recommend this to other aboriginal applicants.
P.P.S. I have not received any special monies for pumping the program. No kickbacks have been provided. No additional bonuses have been issued nor small-pox infested blankets. No extra land has been provided. No extra beef stroganoff ration packs have been given nor did I get special TV privileges! I would however, not be opposed to it!! (Well, maybe the small-pox blanket, you can keep that!)
And... God Almighty, I still pay the 15% tax on everything just like you!!!!
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Excellent post!!
Awesome disclaimer!!
armychick2009 said:P.P.S. I have not received any special monies for pumping the program. No kickbacks have been provided. No additional bonuses have been issued. No extra beef stroganoff ration packs have been given nor did I get special TV privileges! I would however, not be opposed to it!!
Awesome disclaimer!!
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Thanks ArmyVern! Can you tell I've worked in Public Affairs before? It's the CYA.... Cover Your Ass....
BTW, not the trade I'm going for
BTW, not the trade I'm going for
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Well said. Thanks for highlighting the pros to this program. The successes on your course sound fantastic. I wonder if it would be possible to get overall stats for all the serials of the course? In terms of both sign up rates, as well as retention rates after BMQ. I'm sure such numbers are being closely watched somewhere along the line.
As for expanding it to include other cultures, I can't help but think it wouldn't have the same effect on us white folk. We are generally more accustomed to the yelling etc., as well as military style hierarchy, which from the little I have learned about Native social structure is quite different. I don't see as much of a need for an acclimatisation program for 'us.' Although I suppose for the folks just scraping by at or below the poverty line, such a glimpse at army life could prompt them to sign up.
In regards to immigrant minority groups, I'm on the fence there, and probably shouldn't comment until I dig into it more.
There is a young Pte. where I'm at who went through the Raven program. He told me a bit about how it all worked, but I never asked him much about how it worked for him. I think I have my beer mate picked out for the mess on Wednesday!
As for expanding it to include other cultures, I can't help but think it wouldn't have the same effect on us white folk. We are generally more accustomed to the yelling etc., as well as military style hierarchy, which from the little I have learned about Native social structure is quite different. I don't see as much of a need for an acclimatisation program for 'us.' Although I suppose for the folks just scraping by at or below the poverty line, such a glimpse at army life could prompt them to sign up.
In regards to immigrant minority groups, I'm on the fence there, and probably shouldn't comment until I dig into it more.
There is a young Pte. where I'm at who went through the Raven program. He told me a bit about how it all worked, but I never asked him much about how it worked for him. I think I have my beer mate picked out for the mess on Wednesday!
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VIChris,
Sounds like you'll have some interesting conversation! Give him a few minutes to think about it...
There IS something I didn't discuss in that mammoth entry...
.... there are actually several different programs available. I still don't understand the names totally so, someone else will need to clarify this...
Mine was the Pre-recruit Training Course (PRETC), which is 3 weeks long. It's kind of like, a sampler for us to try.
But there is Raven, BlackBear and I believe one other one (ah yes, Bold Eagle!). These are NOT the same. They go 7 weeks and are actually a reserves course. So, those who complete the seven weeks (and are paid $3000... same as a reservist training somewhere else I believe) become actual reservists if they choose to.
PRETC also does NOT have the strict age-restriction those other ones have. I can't do the Raven/Black Bear or Bold Eagle because I am too old at 31. (I was told I look 22 though the other day!) About 3/4 of our program were between 17 & 21. The other ones were the oldies... 24, 28, 31, 33, 37... (roughly the ages anyways). So, we would have lost out on this opportunity if the PRETC didn't exist. All of those older ones mostly had formal schooling (I had my previously stated education, another had college, another had most of his university (if not all)....
And... I actually think ALL of the older applicants have either joined and are currently in basic... or, are waiting (im)patiently (like myself)....
Please let me know what the Pte. says (either here or PM)....
I'm certain he benefited in some way!
Thanks
Sounds like you'll have some interesting conversation! Give him a few minutes to think about it...
There IS something I didn't discuss in that mammoth entry...
.... there are actually several different programs available. I still don't understand the names totally so, someone else will need to clarify this...
Mine was the Pre-recruit Training Course (PRETC), which is 3 weeks long. It's kind of like, a sampler for us to try.
But there is Raven, BlackBear and I believe one other one (ah yes, Bold Eagle!). These are NOT the same. They go 7 weeks and are actually a reserves course. So, those who complete the seven weeks (and are paid $3000... same as a reservist training somewhere else I believe) become actual reservists if they choose to.
PRETC also does NOT have the strict age-restriction those other ones have. I can't do the Raven/Black Bear or Bold Eagle because I am too old at 31. (I was told I look 22 though the other day!) About 3/4 of our program were between 17 & 21. The other ones were the oldies... 24, 28, 31, 33, 37... (roughly the ages anyways). So, we would have lost out on this opportunity if the PRETC didn't exist. All of those older ones mostly had formal schooling (I had my previously stated education, another had college, another had most of his university (if not all)....
And... I actually think ALL of the older applicants have either joined and are currently in basic... or, are waiting (im)patiently (like myself)....
Please let me know what the Pte. says (either here or PM)....
I'm certain he benefited in some way!
Thanks
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Sorry, I should have added this to the last post... you hit the nail on the head where you mentioned Hierarchy... that's what I got most out of the program, was my decision whether to go Officer or NCM. In the end, I opted for NCM because I don't feel I deserve/should be at that level... not YET anyways. I've decided (if I hopefully get my trade) that I will do that for about 10-15 years and then potentially switch to Officer. For me, it's a culture thing.... an elder-type thing... maybe it's the right choice, maybe it's the wrong one. But, right now it feels like the choice I should make. This however is how *I* see it. Another person from another community or another group of first nation, maybe feels differently about it. Besides, I've pushed enough paper in my life that I'm looking very much forward to not having to push (as much) paper for a little while!
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In case anyone wishes more information, here is the link to a PDF file with info on The Canadian Forces Aboriginal Entry Plans:
http://www.forces.ca/media/_pdf/AboriginalPlans_en.pdf
This document has information on all the various programs offered by the CF and may answer some questions and dispel some beliefs.
http://www.forces.ca/media/_pdf/AboriginalPlans_en.pdf
This document has information on all the various programs offered by the CF and may answer some questions and dispel some beliefs.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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Why should we give Aboriginal Youth a $1200 bonus?
What is the logic or reason behind singling them out and giving them $1200?
Why not give someone who is an excellent marksman $1200, or better yet someone who has incredible physical fitness?
Do we do this so just in the end we in the CF can say Hey everybody look we have X amount of Aboriginal's, we're so diverse!
But I ask why? Shouldn't we also reflect the East coast population of Canada? Should we give members of the gay community $1200 to join? Should we extend this to Muslim's to reflect their part in Canada? To the Chinese out in BC?
Armychick2009 that was a really great post I enjoyed reading it, really got me thinking. I'm just nay saying the issue a bit.
You mentioned all your accomplishments then asked if it was worth the $1200. In fairness what about other members of different communities cultures colours who have achieved the same level of accomplishments? IF the CF is buying your level of success with $1200 extra then I think it's only fair to put that out to everyone else. That make sense?
My nay saying aside, if this program helps Aboriginals beat the suicide and addiction problems that are prevalent (sp?) on reserves and up north then I'm willing to keep an open mind to it. It's a problem that throwing money at won't fix. Maybe this money is enough to grab attention and isn't so much just throwing it at a problem...
There is no question about the amazing soldiers they produce IMO. I think I read some where that in WW2 Native Americans won more medals of honour than any other ethnicity? Cool stuff to be proud of. Wish I saw more Aboriginals in the combat arms that's for sure.
I just hate the 'Look at how diverse we are!' attitude of the CF and I see it as us being more concerned about image than performance.
What is the logic or reason behind singling them out and giving them $1200?
Why not give someone who is an excellent marksman $1200, or better yet someone who has incredible physical fitness?
Do we do this so just in the end we in the CF can say Hey everybody look we have X amount of Aboriginal's, we're so diverse!
From the first post.Scotty said:
But I ask why? Shouldn't we also reflect the East coast population of Canada? Should we give members of the gay community $1200 to join? Should we extend this to Muslim's to reflect their part in Canada? To the Chinese out in BC?
Armychick2009 that was a really great post I enjoyed reading it, really got me thinking. I'm just nay saying the issue a bit.
You mentioned all your accomplishments then asked if it was worth the $1200. In fairness what about other members of different communities cultures colours who have achieved the same level of accomplishments? IF the CF is buying your level of success with $1200 extra then I think it's only fair to put that out to everyone else. That make sense?
My nay saying aside, if this program helps Aboriginals beat the suicide and addiction problems that are prevalent (sp?) on reserves and up north then I'm willing to keep an open mind to it. It's a problem that throwing money at won't fix. Maybe this money is enough to grab attention and isn't so much just throwing it at a problem...
There is no question about the amazing soldiers they produce IMO. I think I read some where that in WW2 Native Americans won more medals of honour than any other ethnicity? Cool stuff to be proud of. Wish I saw more Aboriginals in the combat arms that's for sure.
I just hate the 'Look at how diverse we are!' attitude of the CF and I see it as us being more concerned about image than performance.
Flawed Design said:
Either you missed it or I imagined it, but it was explained that they were essentially paid to undergo the training, just like anybody else would have been.
Flawed Design said:
They are one of - and the original - founding Peoples of this nation, yet many have been left behind. Not only does this give some of them a boost up, but it also enables them to contribute to Canadian society as a whole as well as their own communities. This is a pittance compared to the unaccounted-for billions that flow through Indian Affairs, and probably does far more good.
Money worth spent, if you ask me.
Flawed Design said:
Perhaps - but then we'd have to come up with some excuse to kick an awful lot of Maritimers and Newfoundlanders out, and that would cripple us far more than the FRP and Decade of Darkness ever did.
Flawed Design said:
I would not argue against attempting to attract more from other communities, but $1200.00 is not so likely to attract those who live in urban communities with numerous other distractions. We have Co-op programmes in many of those, however, and I believe that we pay participants of those.
Flawed Design said:
On that we can agree.
It was good for a few chortles, too.
Flawed Design said:
Most of the other cultures are not living in the same isolation as many native communities are, and I think that it is reasonably accurate to say that members of those communities deserve a little extra help. It is impossible to be equally fair to every single person in this Country, obviously, but I believe that this strikes a reasonable balance.
We have paid signing bonuses to people with desireable skills, should those not be extended to every applicant for reasons of fairness?
Flawed Design said:
I do not think that paying people to undergo any level of military training is "throwing it at a problem".
Flawed Design said:
But not enough to invest $1200.00 for their first couple of weeks of training?
Flawed Design said:
We should reflect the society from which we come, though, no?
And ensure that as many as possible have the same opportunities to both contribute and benefit, no?
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Well put Loachman.
Armychick - we work out every day at the gym and I am constantly surprised and motivated by your enthusiasm and determination. It's helped me so much to hear about the experience you got this Fall in your three-week training...each story makes me laugh, and think hard. I think your posts on this thread will go a long way to shedding some light on an important issue. Good on you. (See you at 1:15 on the machine of death >)
Armychick - we work out every day at the gym and I am constantly surprised and motivated by your enthusiasm and determination. It's helped me so much to hear about the experience you got this Fall in your three-week training...each story makes me laugh, and think hard. I think your posts on this thread will go a long way to shedding some light on an important issue. Good on you. (See you at 1:15 on the machine of death >
)
ballz
Army.ca Veteran
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Here's what doesn't add up though, since we're talking about all the disadvantages we are trying to help said aboriginals with.
We're not targeting disadvantaged natives. We're targeting all of them.
Army chick said herself about how "we come from all different backgrounds and cultures, JUST LIKE WHITE FOLK"
There were some that were "normal" and come from white culture, they were urbanized and didn't even know what their other aboriginal folk were living with, much like I don't know what it's like for a white person to live in poverty.
If you're going to say this is about "offering opportunities" to those that don't have them, shouldn't we be offering those opportunities to ALL of those that don't have them (aka caucasian, blacks, asians, etc that are living in poverty)? And not offering them to the people that DO have those opportunities (aka the urbanized aboriginals that live a lifestyle exactly the same as your average white folk in TO)?
Perhaps this 3 week opportunity for 1200 dollars should be offered to all people who are living in poverty, regardless of whether it's on a reserve or in a back alley in MTL. EDIT: Oh wait... This would be military recruiting poverty and would be "immoral?"
I still see this program as creating differences between ethnicities and hurting the problem in the long-term. Why should an urbanized aboriginal that's grown up in a big city and lives a "white culture" lifestyle be given this opportunity and not me? Why should an aboriginal living in poverty on a reserve be given this opportunity and not a white/black/asian living in poverty in a big city not be given this opportunity???
PS. I am of Mi'k maq decent and will soon be receiving a card in the mail that apparently makes me Indian. I'll be sending it back.
We're not targeting disadvantaged natives. We're targeting all of them.
Army chick said herself about how "we come from all different backgrounds and cultures, JUST LIKE WHITE FOLK"
There were some that were "normal" and come from white culture, they were urbanized and didn't even know what their other aboriginal folk were living with, much like I don't know what it's like for a white person to live in poverty.
If you're going to say this is about "offering opportunities" to those that don't have them, shouldn't we be offering those opportunities to ALL of those that don't have them (aka caucasian, blacks, asians, etc that are living in poverty)? And not offering them to the people that DO have those opportunities (aka the urbanized aboriginals that live a lifestyle exactly the same as your average white folk in TO)?
Perhaps this 3 week opportunity for 1200 dollars should be offered to all people who are living in poverty, regardless of whether it's on a reserve or in a back alley in MTL. EDIT: Oh wait... This would be military recruiting poverty and would be "immoral?"
I still see this program as creating differences between ethnicities and hurting the problem in the long-term. Why should an urbanized aboriginal that's grown up in a big city and lives a "white culture" lifestyle be given this opportunity and not me? Why should an aboriginal living in poverty on a reserve be given this opportunity and not a white/black/asian living in poverty in a big city not be given this opportunity???
PS. I am of Mi'k maq decent and will soon be receiving a card in the mail that apparently makes me Indian. I'll be sending it back.
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Hi Flawed Design,
I think one of the problems with this thread is the misconception that it's a "Bonus". I have actually participated in other programs in other places that have paid me for my time there as a non-employee. I suppose perhaps some better terminology could be used... what if we called this an "internship" program? We worked hard those 3 weeks, believe me. We learnt to clean our boots, our rooms to standards, waking up at o'dark-stupid... cleaning weapons, tearing down a FOB when we were done. I've worked on a variety of places as an internship and all of which but one (the last, which was MY choice for decided a nuclear research facility wasn't where I wanted to spend my years at) I ended up as full-time employment. The first was that provincial sector job, the second the local university as an receptionist and aboriginal services advisor (helping students cope with ... ah ha!!!... moving away from communities for the first time!) and the last was at Atomic Energy in Chalk River. All of those I learnt the job the same way, all of those I had (MUCH) bigger paycheques than $1200 for 3 weeks, believe me.
So, maybe some wording needs to change.
Am I believer in affirmative action? Hell no. I have NEVER got a job based on WHAT I am (aboriginal). I have earned each and every single one of my jobs based on my actions and my eduction. That being said... I am one of those more fortunate urban aboriginals who also doesn't look as aboriginal as my brothers/sisters. I can pass in either community without question but without the other knowing I am also the other. (Does that make sense??) So, I haven't experienced the same kind of racism. HOWEVER... that being said, that's not what this program is aimed at... it is aimed at opening the youth's eyes to something they either never imagined they could do, had no idea existed, or were sure they wanted to fight for (the white man, haha!)...
The day those kids march off the parade square at the end of those three weeks, they then become like every other potential candidate for the forces. I have not received any special exemptions and still filled out an application (again) like everybody else.
Just a few more quick things, I swear
The first, you mentioned you would love to see more combat arms aboriginal. This is ONLY my opinion. I do not want to reinforce any stereotypes... but a lot of this is just a fact. (I was going to write it in my original post but decided to wait until one of you commented on it!) Aboriginal folks can be pretty handy in the bush/in the field... maybe not so much those raised in urban areas (and I consider myself someone who was raised 50/50%) but we can be pretty resourceful. We often are used to making do with very little and can come up with alternative ways to do things. A lot of us track for kilometres in the bush during hunting season. We're a patient people... some of us are just good at being outdoors. Myself? I am in *my* element when I'm outdoors. If you "sort of" KNEW me in person, you'd never believe it... but those who really know me, know that it's true. So yea! A lot of aboriginal people make awesome soldiers.... I heard that medics need to score an 80 on their range test in order to get their qualifications, correct? (Or something like that?) One of the guys scored a 90. A few more were high up as well... we have skills already that we can bring to the army!
Secondly, part of the 3 weeks was introducing us to physical fitness. About 90% of us did NOT have access to a gym. Or an arena. Or some, even basic medical healthcare we all take for granted... this course introduced that and for some, it was the first time they actually ran for any amount of distance. It was a wake-up call and something to take back home to work on. The Canadian Forces will now have (some) healthier applicants when they go. I'm obviously going to be one of them, I had 100 pounds to lose (I'm halfway there)... so this was a turning point for some.
Now, a quick meander back to the topic of affirmative action... and your comment about about accomplishments being worth $1200 extra... well, it's not EXTRA. That's part of the whole misconception going on. Like I said, if the wording was changed to internship, I believe this would dispel that. And... isn't bonuses a part of the recruiting process anyways, if this WAS a bonus?? There are already signing bonuses out there... why would some doctor need a signing bonus when he's about to make $100-150K a year? (Or more, I don't know how much they make, just guesstimating?) Why should someone who is already in an 'elite' field get a bonus???? Besides, the main difference is this isn't a SIGNING bonus. We aren't in a crowded room with the recruiter standing over us demanding that we sign the sheet and in exchange, getting handed $1200 golden dollars in our fists. It's not like that. $400 a week for an internship program is actually pretty standard wage (depending on the company of course). They aren't buying my level of success... and I'm not joining the forces for the pay, believe me. I'm choosing to join and take a $20 000 a year paycut over what I made in the other jobs I've had. I'm doing this because, this is where I want to be.
And finally... you mentioned something about having a certain number of aboriginals, to claim diversity. My big concern going into the program WAS that I did NOT WANT TO BE A STATISTIC. I am looking at this as a career, not as a way to get a nice cushy job as an officer so the Forces could look better. Trust me, that was a long three weeks of me trying to decide what to do. Every day I was torn. I know I have leadership skills to do the officer bit (though, I kept that low key when I was there, I didn't want to draw attention to that fact, I wanted to remain neutral) but is that what is really going to make me happy? I was well aware of the potential of the program to perhaps boost numbers in certain areas. Remember I said I was the biggest skeptic going in? Well, I'm certain they would have loved me going officer... is that because I'm aboriginal or is that because I have leadership material and 10-12 years of public-sector experience? Everyone wants to see others achieve their highest potential and for me, that's perhaps where *I* had an opportunity to educate some of the staff AND the other candidates. Education does NOT make the person. A much bigger paycheque (compared by a Private NCM compared to an intro officer) isn't something to sneeze at... I was aware (believe me, VERY aware) of what I was losing and gaining by making my choice. Each had pros and cons. Three weeks of indecisiveness, tossing and turning, sleepless nights were spent thinking about this. I had to keep true to myself (and I did) and I applied for the NCM trade that I know is right for me. Even the recruiter back at my home recruiting centre, could tell it was the right trade for me. Yes, there was a perfectly good officer position I could have taken but in the end, I took what was best for me. And those in the PRTC program supported that choice. They didn't pressure me, I didn't become the statistic and nor do I feel like one either at the end of the day.
Anyways - why shouldn't the forces do some demographic-targeted recruitment drives? I already mentioned ALL of the candidates in the program brought this up to the staff. We feel strongly it should. Like I mentioned the farming kids? The forces is really missing out on some very fit, strong, SMART kids who sit idle four-to-six months of the year (agriculture) who I'm sure would LOVE to learn about the army. And maybe immigrants too who want to serve the new country that has adopted them. I wouldn't go quite into individual cultures but why not anyone who is an immigrant, who is eligible? Offer it to them once a year? Logistically, it could be a nightmare doing this for ALL applicants and you know what? Some honestly don't need it. But there are some who do! Like I mentioned in my first post... let us prove to you it DOES work (and help us out here by dispelling the rumours/misconceptions) so that maybe the Forces WILL realise these kind of recruiting methods DO work... and that one day, it CAN be applied to other groups.
Well... the curse of 90 WPM typing, I've written another book. And look! Still no signing bonus for it... or any compensation. As a graphic designer, I should have charged for the two hours I've worked on this thread... at $60 dollars an hour, that's $120 someone owes me. Hmmm, $400 for a weeks worth of work waking up at 5:30 and going to bed at 11, versus two hours as a graphic designer and earning $120. Maybe to put this into perspective, I could theoretically earn for a 35 hour work-week, $2100. Hey thanks guy! You just turned me off of the army! *laughs*
Back to the private/public sector I go!!!
I think one of the problems with this thread is the misconception that it's a "Bonus". I have actually participated in other programs in other places that have paid me for my time there as a non-employee. I suppose perhaps some better terminology could be used... what if we called this an "internship" program? We worked hard those 3 weeks, believe me. We learnt to clean our boots, our rooms to standards, waking up at o'dark-stupid... cleaning weapons, tearing down a FOB when we were done. I've worked on a variety of places as an internship and all of which but one (the last, which was MY choice for decided a nuclear research facility wasn't where I wanted to spend my years at) I ended up as full-time employment. The first was that provincial sector job, the second the local university as an receptionist and aboriginal services advisor (helping students cope with ... ah ha!!!... moving away from communities for the first time!) and the last was at Atomic Energy in Chalk River. All of those I learnt the job the same way, all of those I had (MUCH) bigger paycheques than $1200 for 3 weeks, believe me.
So, maybe some wording needs to change.
Am I believer in affirmative action? Hell no. I have NEVER got a job based on WHAT I am (aboriginal). I have earned each and every single one of my jobs based on my actions and my eduction. That being said... I am one of those more fortunate urban aboriginals who also doesn't look as aboriginal as my brothers/sisters. I can pass in either community without question but without the other knowing I am also the other. (Does that make sense??) So, I haven't experienced the same kind of racism. HOWEVER... that being said, that's not what this program is aimed at... it is aimed at opening the youth's eyes to something they either never imagined they could do, had no idea existed, or were sure they wanted to fight for (the white man, haha!)...
The day those kids march off the parade square at the end of those three weeks, they then become like every other potential candidate for the forces. I have not received any special exemptions and still filled out an application (again) like everybody else.
Just a few more quick things, I swear
The first, you mentioned you would love to see more combat arms aboriginal. This is ONLY my opinion. I do not want to reinforce any stereotypes... but a lot of this is just a fact. (I was going to write it in my original post but decided to wait until one of you commented on it!) Aboriginal folks can be pretty handy in the bush/in the field... maybe not so much those raised in urban areas (and I consider myself someone who was raised 50/50%) but we can be pretty resourceful. We often are used to making do with very little and can come up with alternative ways to do things. A lot of us track for kilometres in the bush during hunting season. We're a patient people... some of us are just good at being outdoors. Myself? I am in *my* element when I'm outdoors. If you "sort of" KNEW me in person, you'd never believe it... but those who really know me, know that it's true. So yea! A lot of aboriginal people make awesome soldiers.... I heard that medics need to score an 80 on their range test in order to get their qualifications, correct? (Or something like that?) One of the guys scored a 90. A few more were high up as well... we have skills already that we can bring to the army!
Secondly, part of the 3 weeks was introducing us to physical fitness. About 90% of us did NOT have access to a gym. Or an arena. Or some, even basic medical healthcare we all take for granted... this course introduced that and for some, it was the first time they actually ran for any amount of distance. It was a wake-up call and something to take back home to work on. The Canadian Forces will now have (some) healthier applicants when they go. I'm obviously going to be one of them, I had 100 pounds to lose (I'm halfway there)... so this was a turning point for some.
Now, a quick meander back to the topic of affirmative action... and your comment about about accomplishments being worth $1200 extra... well, it's not EXTRA. That's part of the whole misconception going on. Like I said, if the wording was changed to internship, I believe this would dispel that. And... isn't bonuses a part of the recruiting process anyways, if this WAS a bonus?? There are already signing bonuses out there... why would some doctor need a signing bonus when he's about to make $100-150K a year? (Or more, I don't know how much they make, just guesstimating?) Why should someone who is already in an 'elite' field get a bonus???? Besides, the main difference is this isn't a SIGNING bonus. We aren't in a crowded room with the recruiter standing over us demanding that we sign the sheet and in exchange, getting handed $1200 golden dollars in our fists. It's not like that. $400 a week for an internship program is actually pretty standard wage (depending on the company of course). They aren't buying my level of success... and I'm not joining the forces for the pay, believe me. I'm choosing to join and take a $20 000 a year paycut over what I made in the other jobs I've had. I'm doing this because, this is where I want to be.
And finally... you mentioned something about having a certain number of aboriginals, to claim diversity. My big concern going into the program WAS that I did NOT WANT TO BE A STATISTIC. I am looking at this as a career, not as a way to get a nice cushy job as an officer so the Forces could look better. Trust me, that was a long three weeks of me trying to decide what to do. Every day I was torn. I know I have leadership skills to do the officer bit (though, I kept that low key when I was there, I didn't want to draw attention to that fact, I wanted to remain neutral) but is that what is really going to make me happy? I was well aware of the potential of the program to perhaps boost numbers in certain areas. Remember I said I was the biggest skeptic going in? Well, I'm certain they would have loved me going officer... is that because I'm aboriginal or is that because I have leadership material and 10-12 years of public-sector experience? Everyone wants to see others achieve their highest potential and for me, that's perhaps where *I* had an opportunity to educate some of the staff AND the other candidates. Education does NOT make the person. A much bigger paycheque (compared by a Private NCM compared to an intro officer) isn't something to sneeze at... I was aware (believe me, VERY aware) of what I was losing and gaining by making my choice. Each had pros and cons. Three weeks of indecisiveness, tossing and turning, sleepless nights were spent thinking about this. I had to keep true to myself (and I did) and I applied for the NCM trade that I know is right for me. Even the recruiter back at my home recruiting centre, could tell it was the right trade for me. Yes, there was a perfectly good officer position I could have taken but in the end, I took what was best for me. And those in the PRTC program supported that choice. They didn't pressure me, I didn't become the statistic and nor do I feel like one either at the end of the day.
Anyways - why shouldn't the forces do some demographic-targeted recruitment drives? I already mentioned ALL of the candidates in the program brought this up to the staff. We feel strongly it should. Like I mentioned the farming kids? The forces is really missing out on some very fit, strong, SMART kids who sit idle four-to-six months of the year (agriculture) who I'm sure would LOVE to learn about the army. And maybe immigrants too who want to serve the new country that has adopted them. I wouldn't go quite into individual cultures but why not anyone who is an immigrant, who is eligible? Offer it to them once a year? Logistically, it could be a nightmare doing this for ALL applicants and you know what? Some honestly don't need it. But there are some who do! Like I mentioned in my first post... let us prove to you it DOES work (and help us out here by dispelling the rumours/misconceptions) so that maybe the Forces WILL realise these kind of recruiting methods DO work... and that one day, it CAN be applied to other groups.
Well... the curse of 90 WPM typing, I've written another book. And look! Still no signing bonus for it... or any compensation. As a graphic designer, I should have charged for the two hours I've worked on this thread... at $60 dollars an hour, that's $120 someone owes me. Hmmm, $400 for a weeks worth of work waking up at 5:30 and going to bed at 11, versus two hours as a graphic designer and earning $120. Maybe to put this into perspective, I could theoretically earn for a 35 hour work-week, $2100. Hey thanks guy! You just turned me off of the army! *laughs*
Back to the private/public sector I go!!!
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