Muslim girls allowed private swim test

[17thRecceSgt]

I think its the fact that this issue is "representative" to many people, given the amount of posts on this one (wow eh!), and I would suggest that it is the "principal" that is being debated, vice the "swimming pool got used for X amount of time"...

And, both "sides" for lack of a better term (we are all on the same side, after all) seem to be debating thru their views rather well IMHO.  

I do strongly think the principal of the issue is the true topic of debate.  It could easily have been "3 muslim girls want special Ketchup at McDonalds because..." and the reaction would be the same, which suggests to me its the principal..."someone wants something special again."

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Since Wikipedia has been invoked:

Is "tolerance" one of those "Canadian ways and traditions" we'd like to see promoted and protected?

Yes it is. 

But...it should be a two-way street. 

 

[Michael OLeary]

Yes it is. 

But...it should be a two-way street. 

And this is your two-way street?

I tend to think of my way of life as a Canadian way of life. 
...

Do I think people should expect to abide by our laws, traditions, and way of life when they come here?  I sure do. 
...

 

[armyvern]

Since Wikipedia has been invoked:

Is "tolerance" one of those "Canadian ways and traditions" we'd like to see promoted and protected?

Absolutely, but it must come from both sides, just as much as "compromise" must.

As in my previous post, I'd point out again that the 'sharkskin bodyswimsuit' is tolerated for wear as a compromise on mixed religious beaches frequented by men/women in one of those "authoritarian countries" (Syria) mentionned in the Wikpedia article, and is very widely worn by Muslim women throughout the mideast these days for swimming in mixed gender/religious settings.

Could it be perhaps, that the girls/families in this instance are unaware of it's existance as an accepted Muslim bathing/swimming standard?  

 

[17thRecceSgt]

Just to add a little side comment. My nieces went to a school and there was a significant amount of Mangerine attending the school. My nieces had to learn Oh Canada in mangerine. This was not a choice but they had to do this. They also celebrated Chinese new year. However the school did not have a Christmas concert because it would offend some people. Why was it this way? If we have to accommodate everyone beliefs, then why are our own beliefs and traditions are frowned upon in schools?

I guess this is an example of the 2-way street I was referring to.  The effort was made to accomodate the Chinese traditions, but unfortunately, the Christmas Concert did not make the cut.

 

[old medic]

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Edit:  Unlocked now.  Keep it civil and coherent.
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[Clément Barbeau Vermet]

Hasema à la rèscousse...
The top company producing Islamic bathing suits, Hasema, sold 25 000 bathing suits last year. The company exports to Egypt, North America, England, and Australia : http://www.hasema.com/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/bigphotos/47209573.html

Ali Baba is a Canadian company offering its version of the Islamic swimsuit : http://www.alibaba.com/catalog/11111833/Islamic_Swimsuit.html

A third company, Jelbab, sells swimming suits that fulfils Islamic clothing requirements, their products can be ordered from the web : http://www.jelbab.com/SwimSuit.asp

Isn't it fantastic ?

 

[winchable]

I don't see the problem with that,
I see the issue many have with Muslim girls being given their own private swim test to protect their modesty, but what you have here is a company looking to bridge the gap by providing Muslim girls the ability to intermingle with non-muslim populations.
Now if these companies were advocating that all women, Muslim and non-Muslim, wear the their swimsuits then I would see your issue.

Of course, if you believe that a compromise of the melting pot is that Muslim women should wear a two-piece in North America then we shall have to agree to disagree.

 

[paracowboy]

Of course, if you believe that a compromise of the melting pot is that Muslim women should wear a two-piece in North America then we shall have to agree to disagree.

I think they should be nekkid in thongs, personally. But, then, I refuse to discriminate, and say that all wiminfolks should be.

 

[Trinity]

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I think they should be nekkid in thongs, personally. But, then, I refuse to discriminate, and say that all wiminfolks should be.

Coherent...  too late.

 

[FastEddy]

I see no problem in making reasonable accommodations for people of different faiths.  Besides, is it only Muslim Girls allowed to swim at that time or are all girls allowed to swim?  I though that was how things were done anyways. Believe it or not I grew up in Red Deer Alberta and when I was a kid there was boy’s swim time and girls swim time, during the girls swim time the blinds were drawn. That was when I was in grade 5.  It struck me as odd at the time so I asked why we were separated out,  we could have 2 hours together instead on one hour each.  I was told “Some of the girls feel more comfortable if boys don’t watch them in their swimsuits”. I understood.  Funny how respect is something that can easily be explained to a child.  Diversity can be a strength.  I live downtown Toronto now and I'm getting lots of help learning Dari from my friends. Now if I ever get to go over there, I'll be allot more usefull than if I just picked up a phrasebook.

And your point is ?

 

[FastEddy]

That's funny, because I don't see any RC's complaining about working on the sabbath. Its not that people are walking over the Christian faith, its simply
that Christians don't take their faith to the same degree as Muslims.

You might say that's a broad paint brush.. well, take the Mormons.  They will not work on the Sunday with the exceptions of police, fire etc...
I know a lot of Mormons and the ones I know will not take a job if it requires them to work on Sunday.  I'm sure many employers would be happy to accommodate
out people's religious faiths.

I've met more than enough "Christians" in name only.  Its hard to be offended when very few people take their own religion that seriously.

Maybe they would, if there wasn't so much BullSh?t and Trappings attached to it.

Sometimes it hard not to consider that long distant phrase "Religion is an Opiate for/of the Masses".

Is there really a difference or any less between a Christian who lives and follows the commandments than one who does or is commanded to fall down on his knees every Sunday.

And if we did protest and demand, (like bringing God back into the classroom, pledging allegiance to the flag and singing the original O'Canada) who the hell would listen. The sad thing is our whole society is being eroded away from us and we are just standing by and watching it.

 

[FastEddy]

What bothers me is many people are saying assimilate or go home.  These people were born here, some many generations
back.  They are home. 

We make huge exceptions for the catholics i.e. "the catholic school boards" getting separately funded from the public
school system.  You can't tell me that's not a big deal, provinces funding religious based schools?

Yes you've hit the nail right on the Head, and that's where the problem started first of all, bring your customs or faiths with you, practice in your places of worship and in your home, but they are not to interfere with our way of life, society or laws. And if our ways offend or prohibit you from living in our Country then I am quite sure you would be more comfortable back at your point of origin.

As far as the RC Church, that was one of our origins and a part of our Heritage and society.

 

[aluc]

Religion is an Opiate for/of the Masses......you've nailed it right on the head. Too bad most of the world is high on organised religion, that they can't see the forrest for the trees.  Imagine ....no religion....what did John Lennon say again?

 

[paracowboy]

what did John Lennon say again?

"Hey, Paul, let's sit down and write another song extolling the virtues of communism so we can sell enough records to buy another swimming pool. Don't bogart that j."

 

[FastEddy]

No, quite true...

but it seems like its a "what have you done for me lately" kind of thing.

Catholics have been more than catered to over the years and as their population dwindles and other groups emerge
it must be frustrating to see others get attention/benefits and they don't.  But, they must remember, they're still
getting or have gotten a lot in the past.

And so they should, they've been here since day one, before there was even a Canada in case you've forgotten. Even before our Puritan Forefathers.

And in case you think I am bias because I'm RC, forget it I'm Anglican

 

[aluc]

Hey, Paul, let's sit down and write another song extolling the virtues of communism so we can sell enough records to buy another swimming pool. Don't bogart that j.

Ahhh....the irony of it all! Speaking about opiates -  Money....it's a hell of a drug

 

[George Wallace]

Anglican?  Church of England?  My God man!  Don't you know, with all that "Stand up, Sit down, Kneel, Stand up, Sit down, ......." stuff in church, that you are more Catholic than the Catholics (Roman Catholic I mean); as being Anglican myself, I learned in my Catechism that I was Catholic, as I believed in one God.   ;D

 

[FastEddy]

Just like we used to in school. All boys swim together and all girls swim together. No need for any other rule. Don't want to participate as part of the whole? Bow out and fail the class. Fail the class? Fail the grade and you don't progress. Everyone is the same in the eyes of the law. No special class, religion or otherwise. Get rid of secular schools. Religion is for church, not schools. Don't like it? Support your own, get out of my pocket.

Get over it. No one is more special, priviledged nor entitled, more than any one else.

Whereas the reference and substance of the multitude of comments have centered on the passing of grades or tests. My question is therefore relative. WTF does swimming have to due with Academic Studies anyway in the Curriculum of Education. But to be a required mark for grade advancement.  Our Eduction Boards should be  contrating more on the "3 R's".

 

[TMM]

It's part of the phys ed curriculum. I think every single kid should have swimming and skating.

We can't complain about lazy or fat kids if we don't keep them moving at school.