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Mutliple shots fired, Dawson College, Montreal

PIKER said:
Exactly my point that carrying concealed weapons would not prevent someone who is hell bent despite the suggestion made earlier in this thread.. You are right with your statement.

Colin,

I call source?..  I'd rather not turn this into a gun debate.  But the current Carry Conceal requirements work for those who qualify and are authorized.  And call me selfish but it makes it safer environment for LEOs..

Look up the numbers in the US (google lott), there is enough proof that CCW has an effect on crime. Although there is CCW in Canada it is almost impossible to get. Not trying to knock all Leo's, but I took a LEO friend shooting, he told me that in one night of shooting he fired more rounds than he did in 2 years with his work. Although I have seen LEO's that are top notch shooters, I have seen lots that have terrible gunhandling skills and I know an RCMP member that is a big shooter, who complains that he can't get his fellow members interested in shooting, even with free ammo. Personally I have no problem with civilians being able to take a course and carry. I suspect that any person that would take the time and spend their money will take it as seriously as any LEO.
 
Black Watch said:
Sure thing, Québécor Média is trying to crap on the CF one more time.

I hope the truth about his military experience gets widely known.  CFRA has a small piece on their website - http://www.cfra.com/headlines/index.asp?cat=2&nid=42799 - apparently he started crying when the barber cut his hair, and somehow managed to set his curtains on fire when burning threads off his uniform.

It seems to me that if he only lasted a month, then he must have made a pretty bad impression right from day 1. 
 
Yes, but in the anti's eyes, a month as a military recruit, means he is a hardened, highly trained killer and bushbot.  ::)
 
I was going to ask if there was anyone at CFLRS on the site that was there in those times (instructor types) but to remember one washout 7 years ago is a bit of a stretch, heck, there has been a few times when a troop has walked up to me in the legion on remembrance day and asked how I was doing, could not remember teaching him.

Still sad.  Can understand how he got in, its hard to do a real background check on a 19 year old that does not raise any flags in the interview. Perhaps we should ask for sites that they frequent during interviews, that would show us where to find the red flags. 

Heart goes out to those affected, I have no suggestions on how to quell or stop this from happening again.
 
Colin P said:
Not trying to knock all Leo's, but I took a LEO friend shooting, he told me that in one night of shooting he fired more rounds than he did in 2 years with his work. Although I have seen LEO's that are top notch shooters, I have seen lots that have terrible gunhandling skills and I know an RCMP member that is a big shooter, who complains that he can't get his fellow members interested in shooting, even with free ammo.

I've noticed this issue since being hired on. We shoot thousands of rounds during our intitial firearms training, but many officers seem to treat firearms handling/shooting as an after thought once hitting the road. At my department, we go through mandatory yearly qualification (the qual is shot "cold" and if failed, you can't shoot it again until the next day) and are encouraged to go to the range. Although it can be tough to hit the range on a work day too many officers aren't willing to go on days off. It boggles my mind cause shooting is the one thing in this job that you may never have to use, but if the day comes, you'd better be prepared.

But back to the issue at hand, my sympathies to all involved.
 
I wnet to Anastasia De Sousa's funeral as a CSU representative. Quite moving indeed. RIP Anastasia, may God watch on you.
 
Black Watch said:
I ..... as a CSU representative.....


Oh no! While I commend my student union (I'm a part-timer at Concordia) for jumping in and helping out the Dawson students who definitely needed assistance right away;  I'm not too impressed with you guys for immediately resuming your we-hate-the-administration stance as fast as possible to gain some publicity. (Ranting that Dawson's Administration had not reacted quick enough.) 

Whats your position at CSU? 
 
I'm not Dawson union, but Concordia. Im a undergraduate representant for the Riligion student's association.
 
"That's me in the corner, that's me in the spotlight mis-spelling the word religion..."

- With apologies to REM.
 
Ban semi-automatic weapons used in Dawson College attack: coroner

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2008/09/04/mtl-coronerdawson0904.html

Ban semi-automatic weapons used in Dawson College attack: coroner
Dawson College shooter was ready to kill his parents to protect his plan

Last Updated: Thursday, September 4, 2008 | 5:36 PM ET
CBC News

Students run from Montreal's Dawson College after gunman Kimveer Gill opened fire inside on Sept. 13, 2006.Students run from Montreal's Dawson College after gunman Kimveer Gill opened fire inside on Sept. 13, 2006. (Ryan Remiorz/Canadian Press)

The man who stormed Montreal's Dawson College in 2006 and opened fire on students planned his attack for months, and was ready to kill his parents if they discovered his plans, a Quebec coroner said in a report on the deadly rampage.

Granting health professionals access to the federal and Quebec gun registries, banning the semi-automatic weapon used by killer Kimveer Gill and improving institutional emergency plans were among the main recommendations made by the coroner's office to avoid similar attacks in the future.

The heavily armed Gill, 25, descended on the downtown college campus on Sept. 13, 2006, and shot several students, killing Anastasia DeSousa and wounding 16 others, before he shot himself in front of two hostages.

Anastasia DeSousa, 18, was killed in the Dawson College shooting.Anastasia DeSousa, 18, was killed in the Dawson College shooting. (Canadian Press)DeSousa was shot 10 times in the front and back, with the first hit likely being mortal. "I believe that she died quite quickly, in the first minute," Quebec coroner Jacques Ramsay said at a Montreal news conference Thursday.

Gill fired 72 times with his semi-automatic rifle and six times with a handgun before he was shot by police, who struck him in the elbow before he shot himself.

His weapon, a short-barrelled Beretta CX4 Storm rifle, was obtained legally and should be banned, Ramsay said.

"It's a lighter rifle, it's easier to manoeuvre, but it is still very precise," and should not be available to civilians, he said.

Australia has already banned semi-automatic weapons, which resulted in lower homicide rates, a trend Canada should definitely take "into consideration," he said.

Ramsay noted the "very brave, very courageous" actions of three police officers who happened to be at the college when Gill started shooting, saying their quick action prevented him from killing more people.

"When we're talking about an active shooter, we must intervene quickly," and that's what the officers did, he said.
Medical professionals need access to gun registry

Montreal police should follow the example of other forces and provide officers access to heavier weapons, such as shotguns or other long-barrelled rifles, either at the district station or in supervisors' cars.

Coroner Jacques Ramsay flips through his report on the Dawson College shooting, released Thursday.Coroner Jacques Ramsay flips through his report on the Dawson College shooting, released Thursday. (Alain Roberge/Canadian Press/La Presse)Montreal's 911 service was severely tested that day, Ramsay added. More than 500 calls were placed to the emergency system in the first 30 minutes following the shooting.

Ramsay is also recommending that health and education professionals have access to the federal and Quebec gun registries to check whether patients or students have weapons, "provided it's done in a way that protects people's privacy," he said.
Killer hid illness when applying for gun permit

Tragedies of this scope cannot be fully prevented, even though it is possible to mitigate them, Ramsay said.

Gill suffered from serious emotional problems in the six years leading to the Dawson shooting.

He battled recurring anxiety and hypersensitivity, and had several bouts of depression. Gill threatened to commit suicide in 2004, which led him to visit a community health clinic, where a psychologist followed his case.

Dawson students watch as Montreal police lock down their school. Dawson students watch as Montreal police lock down their school. (Ian Barrett/Canadian Press)He slept during the day and spent his nights in front of his computer, was isolated and developed a drinking problem that led him to consume between two and seven drinks a day, Ramsay said.

He did not disclose his mental illness when he applied for a gun permit, the coroner said.

Gill was drinking whisky the day of the Dawson shooting, but was not intoxicated or under the influence of drugs.

He spoke to no one of his plans for the attack except on his blog, and it's doubtful anyone could have seen it coming, even his parents, Ramsay said.

In notes recovered from his computer, Gill described how difficult it was to organize his attack without alerting his family. He wrote about his need to constantly hide any incriminating evidence, including his cache of weapons.

Gill indicated in his notes that if his parents found out about his plans, he would have to "eliminate them" against his wishes, the coroner reported.

Gill originally planned to execute his attack on April 20, to commemorate the Columbine massacre in Colorado.

He had photos of four universities and three colleges, including Dawson, on his computer. Ramsay said it’s still a mystery why he picked the downtown CÉGEP.
Gill victim backs call for weapon ban

Dawson College student Catherine Mandilaris, who was shot in the thigh by Gill, said weapons should be off-limits for most people.

"To tell you the truth, I don't think people should have guns," she said after the coroner report's release. "I've seen first-hand what they can do to people. They should be used for hunting, and by police officers, and when they're done... they should be locked up."

Canada needs tougher gun control and it will likely be an election issue, said Bloc Québécois public security critic Serge Ménard.

"We don't need to have any more tragic events to convince us that the number of arms should be generally limited," he said. "These kind of arms can be used for military purposes, but I don't really see any sort of useful use for these arms."

Dawson College director Richard Filion said he's satisfied with the coroner report's findings.

The college reviewed its security measures after the shooting, installed deadbolts on classroom doors, and implemented new communication systems, which have been in place since the 2007 school year, Filion said.
With files from the Canadian Press


Let the anti-anti-gun lobby rants commence anew.

 
Im waiting for it to happen.... as long as the Conservatives are in power I think the Gun owners should be safe... hopefully....

but I can see the next Lib Majority whenever that happens again, will probabbly enact some sort of massive anti-gun legislation, and that will prove to be an interesting time in canada... when the legal gun owners finally loose the battle.... Im not looking forward to that day...

I hope it never comes... but too many in this country, in the major ridings (SW Ont, and Moronto, as well as the rest of the large urban centers) are so Anti-Gun its insane... there is little hope i think, of convincing them otherwise...

to them its simple... Ban Guns = No more gun Crime....

I cant wait to see what their reaction will be when violent crime shoots through the roof afterwards....
 
I have recently conducted a study as well that says most all uninformed people are well educated. As a result I move to ban all uninformed individuals from attending post-secondary institutions because they obviously aren't learning anything. I also concluded that those who like to talk about things that they have ZERO clue on i.e. A Coroner who says that the Storm should be banned based on it's light weight construction, high manuverabiliy and high accuracy has obviously never seen a person with a lever action.22 do the same type of damage. I think the Coroner should stick to what they know best, dead people. Leave the judgement and public statements about firearms to those that know what they're talking about. Another words.. Well you get the point
 
Yes, and we can take all the cars away so no drunk drivers will kill anyone, that way the only people with cars will be the Police, other Emerg Svc's, Defence, and of course the criminals.

Some people's logic really irritates me sometimes.

Love each other,

OWDU
 
Indeed.  I might point out that you overlooked knives.  After the recent beheading, they have now been promoted to the top of that long list.
 
George Wallace said:
Indeed.  I might point out that you overlooked knives.  After the recent beheading, they have now been promoted to the top of that long list.

Redongkulous... why haven't they banned cellphones or pagers yet? They're the electronic transmitter for remote bombings and IEDs... mind as well start before someone does it!
 
Whoa!  Next thing we'll see is Government Legislation that the whole population will have to wear Tinfoil Hats or hats lined with tinfoil.
 
Careful - you might get a cut from a jagged corner of that tin-foil - not to mention the box edge of the dispenser... toilet paper hats maybe - biodigradable of course, made from organically grown non-tropical trees sprinkled with non-acid rainwater....
 
Things Banned in the year 2010 in the City of Moronto, by Dave Miller and his merry band:


-all Firearms... especially if they are black and plastic and scary looking....
Firearms include anything that can go bang... (oh you needed that .223 bolt action to keep varmits off your farm? nah thats a sniper rifle.. it has a scope on it... i saw it in a movie so it must be true....)

- Knives, machetes, and really pointy keys...

- Sporks, forks, toothpicks, pointy sticks, and all pencils and ballpoint pens longer then 2 inches (could be used as a weapon after all...)

- Any scissors that could not be handled safely by a drunken preschooler

- Cars... bad for the environment and sometimes people drive drunk.

- cell phones... you can get distracted and walk into someone possibly bruising them!

- any jagged rough or sharp surface... all structured must be rounded and lined with foam rubber padding.

- all typed of hard surfaces like concrete asphalt or brick must be replaced with sponges... this works to help keep water off the ground after the rain, and when drunken homeless folk fall down they get a free sponge bath. thus keeping the city extra clean.

- all residents must wear clothing made entirely of terry cloth to ensure no one gets rubbed the wrong way.

............

yeah i think im done here...... seriously.....  im with wes..... ban all guns cause a nutter shot someone is exactly like banning cars because people drive drunk.... it really doesnt fix it....

argh...
 
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