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Navy doing trials on new clothing???

jollyjacktar said:
Dolphin Hunter, yes we are all Shipboard FF trained I agree.  But the Helo/Crash Rescue is a different kettle of fish.  Related in that there is fire involved but completely diffferent ROE etc.   But again, the HT wearing the gear is because they are involved in that line of work.

I agree with you on the bitterness of not being able to wear coveralls, it is a sore point in many fronts.  As Stoker mentioned, he too is rapid response and this form of dress does indeed cut down the close up times greatly.  And yes, the cost of  these coveralls is similar or cheaper than the full NCD suite.  Some higher ups don't like the look of coveralls and feel that they are a sloppy form of dress.  Hopefully these old timers will at last retire and some more foreward thinking individuals come into the decision making process.

Coveralls sloppy?? Have they not seen what the NCD's look like? Multi shades of green/blue/black pants, faded shirt (which you constantly have to tuck in!) frayed collars, supply system that won't exchange....The list is endless.
 
I have yet to see coveralls looking sloppy, although the only two navies that I have seen look good in coveralls are the Aussie's and Kiwi's.

The NCD dress IMHO looks awful, throw on a  beret (god ugly thing) and it looks worse!
 
FSTO said:
Coveralls sloppy?? Have they not seen what the NCD's look like? Multi shades of green/blue/black pants, faded shirt (which you constantly have to tuck in!) frayed collars, supply system that won't exchange....The list is endless.

This was the reasoning given I am told by the dress committee as part of their decision.  They felt that buttons on shirts and the like looked more professional, and that really sailors wanted to have buttons etc instead of coveralls.  This is perhaps what happens when you are too far away from the coal face and out of touch with the wishes of the great unwashed.

I agree the NCDs can look like a bag of shit especially when they are subjected to the hard reality of shipboard life, especially in the engineering world.  But to be fair, I am sure that there would be those indivuduals who would make coveralls look just as bad in about the same time frame.
 
Hers my 2 cents,  as a sailer 1. the NCD's are garbage, they look like garbage, maintain like garbage, and wear through in less than a hockey season, add on top of that a ball cap and we look like we should be pumping gas at payless after dropping out of Jr high.
2. Ball Caps, I hope that some C1 out there decides he/she's going to play the book right by the letter, "may wear ball cap at sea" period just like the floppy hat the army and airforce have.
3. Garison Dress, those posted ashore/garrison should wear a standard of dress higher than that of seagoing/field units period, typically they sit at desks or instruct in schools, typically the first people that are seen by the public. I wear Service Dress (all order no 3) at work including whites during summer periods.
4. Sea Boots, on of 2 things enforce that they must be blackened or discontinue thier use a walking out rig, they are usually green(mildew) grey or have steel poking through, why you might ask, because these are P1/P2's and Chief's walking out like this, a horrible display of leadership in my opinion
5. We need NOMEX clothing in the navy (nope) cotton clothing yes, cotton is naturaly fire "resistant", we no longer fight fires with rain gear we use proper turn out gear, the kind that guys wear jeans and bathing suits under. there must be something more utilitarian, that looks better and more proffesional than NCD's

And again scrap the ball caps, we're not playing ball or selling gas and smokes, keep some pride about us.

I was once told by a WO if we can't get you to fold your damn socks a certain way how can we get you to engage the enemy in conversation let alone with a rifle.
 
Disenchantedsailor said:
5. We need NOMEX clothing in the navy (nope) cotton clothing yes, cotton is naturaly fire "resistant", we no longer fight fires with rain gear we use proper turn out gear, the kind that guys wear jeans and bathing suits under. there must be something more utilitarian, that looks better and more proffesional than NCD's

I agree with most of your points, however the use of cotton instead of NOMEX is something I don't agree with. Cotton is not naturally fire resistant, unless its treated with a fire retardant, most often the fire retardant will become less effective with washing. Wool is actually more fire retardant than cotton. While its fine under bunker gear, what about people conducting rapid response? or in the case of a flash fire? If I have to go into a fire as rapid response or to fight a fire i'm going to want the max protection NOMEX or something similar will provide. I think a good set of NOMEX coveralls is the best bet.
 
*sigh*

Take it from the aircrew world...NOMEX coverall alone will do nothing for you........it is only effective if you have a layer underneath it, like cotton.......

2 words.....DUAL LAYERS
 
you make a good point, especially for the rapid repsonse types, but heres this in tropical weather the troops enjoy the benefits of shorts, and T-shirts for night clothing are coming back how well will they fare in a flash fire (likely caused by battle damage). I will give merit to your point about rapid response requiring special gear sure for for the average dresses like a bag of hammers sailer (and remember these are a sailors observations) long pants sure, jacket at hand sure, but why kit thats falls apart after the third or fourth washing (NCD's not coveralls) or coveralls for everyone that make us all look like prisoners (lets not forget that every guest of our special place in Edmonton wear coveralls)
 
CDN Aviator said:
*sigh*

Take it from the aircrew world...NOMEX coverall alone will do nothing for you........it is only effective if you have a layer underneath it, like cotton.......

2 words.....DUAL LAYERS

Yes underware made of 50/50 cotton/wool mix or 100% cotton should also be worn.
 
Stoker said:
Yes underware made of 50/50 cotton/wool mix or 100% cotton should also be worn.

On my AMT course they showed us what happens to skin when only the NOMEX layer is worn.......it aint pretty !!
 
Disenchantedsailor said:
you make a good point, especially for the rapid repsonse types, but heres this in tropical weather the troops enjoy the benefits of shorts, and T-shirts for night clothing are coming back how well will they fare in a flash fire (likely caused by battle damage). I will give merit to your point about rapid response requiring special gear sure for for the average dresses like a bag of hammers sailer (and remember these are a sailors observations) long pants sure, jacket at hand sure, but why kit thats falls apart after the third or fourth washing (NCD's not coveralls) or coveralls for everyone that make us all look like prisoners (lets not forget that every guest of our special place in Edmonton wear coveralls)

Anyone can be rapid response. Are shorts still worn as tropical gear? As for night dress I don't agree with it and I refuse to let my stokers wear it. I agree that the current NCD's do not stand up to normal wear very much, that should be looked at. I would also like to see a fleece alongside or some sort of intermediate garment to wear when the NCD jacket is not warm enough and the gortex jacket is too warm.
 
jollyjacktar said:
This was the reasoning given I am told by the dress committee as part of their decision.  They felt that buttons on shirts and the like looked more professional, and that really sailors wanted to have buttons etc instead of coveralls.  This is perhaps what happens when you are too far away from the coal face and out of touch with the wishes of the great unwashed.

"Buttons"?  They had buttons on the shirts? :D  Most people just pulled them off over their head anyway, to save time if/when having to put them back on quickly anyway.  That and skipped wearing a belt too (or tried to, dependent on observant coxns of course) to try and save even more precious seconds.  Yet more reasons to have coveralls.
 
Disenchantedsailor said:
2. Ball Caps, I hope that some C1 out there decides he/she's going to play the book right by the letter, "may wear ball cap at sea" period just like the floppy hat the army and airforce have.

Ball caps look much better than the beret, and they are more comfortable (for me anyway).....  There is nothing wrong with guys wearing ball caps around dockyard.  Some look sloppy, but the entire uniform looks like shit, its not the ball cap.  It works with the Yank uniform, for some reason their Naval dress doesn't look as sloppy as ours, even when compared to the kippers our NCD's still look like shit.

But what do I care.... I only have a few more days as a fish-head, then I am off to better and bigger things..... 
 
Disenchantedsailor said:
Hers
3. Garison Dress, those posted ashore/garrison should wear a standard of dress higher than that of seagoing/field units period, typically they sit at desks or instruct in schools, typically the first people that are seen by the public. I wear Service Dress (all order no 3) at work including whites during summer periods.
And again scrap the ball caps, we're not playing ball or selling gas and smokes, keep some pride about us.

I was once told by a WO if we can't get you to fold your damn socks a certain way how can we get you to engage the enemy in conversation let alone with a rifle.

1. Spell check its there bro, use it.

2. Unless you are allocated the extra points why would you wear your No 3's in BIS as a LS, I work in the same building as yourself, and I have yet to see you in "whites", but keep up the good work and keep your lips clean!

3. Scrap ball caps?  Is it just because you don't like them? If you want us to look like sailors and not gas station attendants then we better bring back the square rig.

 
I will definitely agree that our current NCD's or completely made of sub standard material. Buttons are always coming off, strings are always hanging... The shirts are too short.  There are a number of reasons not to wear what we are currently using. I would like to see a change but in light of where the rest of our funding is going I really don't see a change coming down the pipe anytime soon.

We all know what would make more sense. I guess that is what I find baffling. everyone complains but whenever change is introduced it never makes it through the "rigorous" process. The reason are never clearly spelled out either. The whole things just seems so vague.

 
Dolphin_Hunter said:
1. Spell check its there bro, use it.

2. Unless you are allocated the extra points why would you wear your No 3's in BIS as a LS, I work in the same building as yourself, and I have yet to see you in "whites", but keep up the good work and keep your lips clean!

3. Scrap ball caps?  Is it just because you don't like them? If you want us to look like sailors and not gas station attendants then we better bring back the square rig.

Arrrr bring back the Square Rig Arrrrrrr  ;D
 
I think I've worn my NCD's about 3 times since I got there, you're a watch keeper so we see each other what 1 day in 10 or fifteen maybe less due to weekends. And its got SFA to do with a@@ kissing, ask anyone whose sailed with me, when my lips move its usually to point out exactly how retarted I believe some ORO's are. The last time I checked the standing orders said "may wear work dress" check QR&O's Chap 102 for defs, May indicates a choice, Shall indicates a Direction, I choose to wear salt and peppers because it looks less gas pumpish than NCD's, and April's coming, I'll be the guy with white pants, why because I can.
 
Disenchantedsailor said:
I think I've worn my NCD's about 3 times since I got there, you're a watch keeper so we see each other what 1 day in 10 or fifteen maybe less due to weekends. And its got SFA to do with a@@ kissing, ask anyone whose sailed with me, when my lips move its usually to point out exactly how retarted I believe some ORO's are. The last time I checked the standing orders said "may wear work dress" check QR&O's Chap 102 for defs, May indicates a choice, Shall indicates a Direction, I choose to wear salt and peppers because it looks less gas pumpish than NCD's, and April's coming, I'll be the guy with white pants, why because I can.

QR&O 19.14 – IMPROPER COMMENTS
(1) No officer or non-commissioned member shall make remarks or pass criticism tending to bring a superior into contempt, except as may be necessary for the proper presentation of a grievance under Chapter 7 (Grievances). (15 June 2000)

You state in several of your posts that dress and deportment are at an all time low. Deportment also includes what we say and this is not a very positive statement to make about a superior.

 
agreed my slip, except that is was not directed at a particular individual, therefore not insubodrinate, improper sure.
 
Great...now you guys can get back to the subject.......right ?

army.ca staff
 
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