Obligatory Service in the CAF

[brihard]

I'm actually surprisingly neutral on this. One the one hand if someone can't hack it and wants to quick, OK, at that point he's of no real use and in some ways is a toxicity and a liability. Expedite release. But absolutely hit them for every dollar owed.

However at the end of the day I recognize and respect that you can always make more money; but you can never make more time. That comes in finite quantity and is always ticking down. If someone is willing to take the hit and accept the financial obligations in exchange for service obligations, get 'em out without hindrance or prejudice so we can focus our efforts on those deserving of them.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Looking at this as a taxpayer, I hope the CF recovers every penny it is entitled to from anyone who thinks they are going to scam a free education and then walk away owing as little as possible.

Looking at this as a current serving member, I hope they keep those types in and make use of them in any kind of GD work, or if employable in their MOC employed in that MOC until the end of their oblig service.  There are numerous type of duties that are currently done by members outside of their normal working hours who are actually serving [vice *looking to be served*] [example, Roundsmen at A-Block in Halifax] that can be performed by the members of this SOE-IAS (Sense of Entitlement - I AM SPECIAL) crowd.

If people want out, let them out, but recover all associated costs.

 

[justin9]

After your first year of education, if you bail out of the program you owe the military everything for your education AND your pay while you were at school. (Someone that I know did this after their second year and they owe the military at least $30 0000.

Can someone confirm if it is really $300k or $30k after a year? $300k doesn't seem reasonable.

 

[Noctis]

Can someone confirm if it is really $300k or $30k after a year? $300k doesn't seem reasonable.

Given where he put the space, he clearly meant $30k.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

I briefly skimmed over through some of these but similar to the post above (and this is pertaining to the subject, the ROTP program):

Obligatory service: Every month of education = 2 months of obligatory service

Maximum time for obligatory service is 5 years

After your first year of education, if you bail out of the program you owe the military everything for your education AND your pay while you were at school. (Someone that I know did this after their second year and they owe the military at least $30 0000.

I think I summed things up.. Hope it helps a little bit better (most of this is probably listed above, I just didn't want to read everything.)

Yes, money will be owed back.  In certain circumstances however an offer can be given to the member to go into an NCM trade to repay this amount in time served vice financial repayment (i.e. two years education provided so 4 years service must be served as an NCM).

 

[ballz]

Yes, money will be owed back.  In certain circumstances however an offer can be given to the member to go into an NCM trade to repay this amount in time served vice financial repayment (i.e. two years education provided so 4 years service must be served as an NCM).

As of last summer, the current trend at the Infantry School was that if you wanted to get out of the Infantry, you were being directed to submit your memo for a Voluntary Release... from what a current instructor told me, this is still the case.

I think they were getting sick of people getting through BMOQ-L and then deciding one or two weeks into DP1.1 that they no longer wanted to continue training to be an Infantry O so they were submitting a memo for Voluntary Withdrawal (from the course) so they could seek out a new trade via the BPSO... or what people have began to call the Army Welfare program (staying as a 2Lt in the training system for 2-4 years, most of the time on PAT Pl).

Just something to consider for those wanting to get a free education through ROTP. If you want to be an Infantry O, great, if you want a free education, go another route.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

As of last summer, the current trend at the Infantry School was that if you wanted to get out of the Infantry, you were being directed to submit your memo for a Voluntary Release... from what a current instructor told me, this is still the case.

I think they were getting sick of people getting through BMOQ-L and then deciding one or two weeks into DP1.1 that they no longer wanted to continue training to be an Infantry O so they were submitting a memo for Voluntary Withdrawal (from the course) so they could seek out a new trade via the BPSO... or what people have began to call the Army Welfare program (staying as a 2Lt in the training system for 2-4 years, most of the time on PAT Pl).

Just something to consider for those wanting to get a free education through ROTP. If you want to be an Infantry O, great, if you want a free education, go another route.

My post was more in line with the education reimbursement than about the trade you were in.  It's pretty much that if you had gone into your second year of education and beyond where you would be on the hook financially to repay the tuition and salary, that the option for an NCM trade would be granted to repay this in time vice money.  Again, this is only in certain circumstances.

 

[ballz]

My post was more in line with the education reimbursement than about the trade you were in.  It's pretty much that if you had gone into your second year of education and beyond where you would be on the hook financially to repay the tuition and salary, that the option for an NCM trade would be granted to repay this in time vice money.  Again, this is only in certain circumstances.

Roger that, my post was meant as an add-on "food for thought" to yours, not a correction of your post or anything like that.

 

[Canadian.Trucker]

Roger that, my post was meant as an add-on "food for thought" to yours, not a correction of your post or anything like that.

That's how I took it, just figured I'd clarify my words. 

 

[abejackson]

I recently joined the airforce and VIE of 7 years.
But I signed up for a 5-year contract. What is the significance of VIE?
Thanks.

 

[vonGarvin]

I'm sorry, when I see VIE, I think "VI E", and therefore, this:

 

[PMedMoe]

A VIE is a Variable Initial Engagement.  From forces.ca:  " The length of a VIE varies depending upon the operational requirements of each occupation and the training time required for an individual to become fully employable."

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/faq-101

Also from forces.ca:  "Enrol in the Canadian Forces through the Non-Commissioned Member Subsidized Education Plan (NCM SEP), and you will receive free college tuition, books and academic equipment in addition to a salary with benefits. Finally, you will have a guaranteed job upon graduation.  In return for having your college education paid for, you will have to serve a number of years calculated on the basis of two months' service for each month of subsidized education. For example, if you receive paid college education over the course of 4 semesters, you will have to serve in the military for at least 32 months upon completing the program (each semester is four months long)."

http://www.forces.ca/en/page/paideducation-96

You did enter via NCM-SEP, did you not?

I would have asked about this when I signed the contract.....  Just my  :2c:

 

[DAA]

I recently joined the airforce and VIE of 7 years.
But I signed up for a 5-year contract. What is the significance of VIE?
Thanks.

If you joined as an AVS Tech (Unskilled) you would have signed a 5 year VIE.  However, as an AVS Tech (NCM SEP) the TOS is a 7 year VIE.

As mentioned above, a VIE is basically another word for "contract".

 

[abejackson]

Thanks for the replies.

Yes. I joined as a NCM-SEP.
This was in my acceptance email.

- Enrolment as 00136 AVS TECH in the uniform of Air with a VIE of 7 years and Obligatory Service of 2 month for every 1 month of subsidized education.

By the time I will graduate, I will have spent 18 months in school. So I guess that make 36 months of mandatory service in the Airforce.


This was taken from the CF website.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Regular Force Officers and Non-Commissioned Members (NCMs) – Must have sufficient time to complete a Variable Initial Engagement (VIE) for the occupation to which they are enrolled prior to reaching the compulsory retirement age (CRA) of 60. The length of a VIE varies depending upon the operational requirements of each occupation and the training time required for an individual to become fully employable. If you would like to know the length of the VIE for the occupation(s) you are interested in we can assist you.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Based on the description, it says it would take 7 years for me to become fully employable. This is where I get confused. Don't I go work as a AVS tech right after  I graduate?

 

[Occam]

Based on the description, it says it would take 7 years for me to become fully employable. This is where I get confused. Don't I go work as a AVS tech right after  I graduate?

I'm going to take a stab here, but my guess is that it would take seven years to not only take the required classroom training, but to also have the required hands-on OJT to qualify as an AME - that is, someone who can work independently without having direct supervision by a qualified AME.

 

[BC Old Guy]

This was taken from the CF website.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Regular Force Officers and Non-Commissioned Members (NCMs) – Must have sufficient time to complete a Variable Initial Engagement (VIE) for the occupation to which they are enrolled prior to reaching the compulsory retirement age (CRA) of 60. The length of a VIE varies depending upon the operational requirements of each occupation and the training time required for an individual to become fully employable. If you would like to know the length of the VIE for the occupation(s) you are interested in we can assist you.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Based on the description, it says it would take 7 years for me to become fully employable. This is where I get confused. Don't I go work as a AVS tech right after  I graduate?

The length of the VIE is developed from the length of time at the school, time required at the unit / on the floor to develop the skills learned in school, and time as a fully qualified technician, which is a return on investment of the training time/cost.  So, it would not take 7 years to become fully employable, because during some of that 7 years, you will be expected to be working as a fully employable technician.

BCOG

 

[angelaakimm]

I've been wondering what you do during the 3-5 years of obligatory service after graduation of RMC or civilian University? Do you go in as the job (Intelligence Officer) you applied for during RMC application process or are you sent in the front lines as a solider?
P.S this is for the ROTP

 

[brihard]

During your summers between school years you would train in the officer classification (trade) you chose. So Intelligence Officers would learn how to be IntOs. Infantry Officers would learn how to command an infantry platoon. Pilots would learn how to fly, etc. during your owed service you would work in your trade.

I hope intelligence officer was just a hypothetical example on your part?

 

[MJP]

I've been wondering what you do during the 3-5 years of obligatory service after graduation of RMC or civilian University? Do you go in as the job (Intelligence Officer) you applied for during RMC application process or are you sent in the front lines as a solider?
P.S this is for the ROTP

You do a job in the trade that you belong too if you are fully trained.  If you are not fully trained then you complete your training and then do your trade job.  Every officer trade generally has a baseline job/career path that you do for you to gain experience in your trade.

 

[angelaakimm]

So I signed up for the ROTP and I wish to get into a civilian university and earn a degree in Mathematics and Business Administration and go into Information Technology. For the ROTP, I applied for the Intelligence Officer position. I thought that the 5 years obligatory service after graduation (if you have paid university) that you would be able towork in your field but if needed as a foot soldier, they are legally allowed to make you a soldier. I'm just hearing many different stories from different people and I just wanted to clear this up.