"O'Connor has $8B military 'wish list"

[Colin Parkinson]

We should buy Russian trucks.  They would fit in the Russian airplanes.

No....?

As long as neither is built by Bombardier I can live with that.  ;D

 

[Cloud Cover]

Scott Taylor is not a defence analyst and I don't think he has ever held himself out to be. Arm chair general maybe, but not an analyst.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

no argument there whiskey

 

[Infanteer]

So are these intended to replace the MLs and the LS or just the ML?

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

The news indicated only the ML but who knows.  There a couple different types of truck.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

But arent the Iroquois Class supposed to last only until 2010? Would they just be expected to continue or would we have to get along without them?

There are a number of different plans and thoughts circulating from what I can understand. If they went for the LPD...i.e. a San Antonio class ship that they could get relatively fast and say get 3 or 4 of those these would fulfill the requirements of the BHS and we could take the crews from the 280s to man the LPDs. the San Antonio could do the command and control function that the 280s did and then some. thus they would not have to directly replace the 280s. At some far off point they would replace the CPFs with a bigger version with command and control functions as well....probably this is only one contingency plan but one I've heard MARS guys talk about in the Mess.
another thought I'm told is to get a Whitbey class or two while waiting for the San Antonios to be built. Probably a MARS fantasy but they are looking at a lot of possibilities.

 

[Cloud Cover]

There are a number of different plans and thoughts circulating from what I can understand. If they went for the LPD...i.e. a San Antonio class ship that they could get relatively fast and say get 3 or 4 of those these would fulfill the requirements of the BHS and we could take the crews from the 280s to man the LPDs. the San Antonio could do the command and control function that the 280s did and then some. thus they would not have to directly replace the 280s. At some far off point they would replace the CPFs with a bigger version with command and control functions as well....probably this is only one contingency plan but one I've heard MARS guys talk about in the Mess.
another thought I'm told is to get a Whitbey class or two while waiting for the San Antonios to be built. Probably a MARS fantasy but they are looking at a lot of possibilities.

3 or 4 LPD' 17's are a fantasy. Hell, even 1 LPD 17 is a fantasy. We'll get a ship like the LSD 41 class and maybe another similar ship a few years after that, and that's about it. 

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

3 or 4 LPD' 17's are a fantasy. Hell, even 1 LPD 17 is a fantasy. We'll get a ship like the LSD 41 class and maybe another similar ship a few years after that, and that's about it.   

Yeah the Whitbey Class (LPD 41 is USS Whitbey Island  http://www.whidbey-island.navy.mil/ )....I think there's talk that they have a few of those surplus and they were mentioned as a quick fix while they await a bigger fix. Of course the problem is that Governments don't last long enought to see through a ship building project that large.

 

[Kirkhill]

Moving on from LPDs to trucks for a moment ....

How do you suppose the "reporter" came up with this beauty?

From CP: http://www.mytelus.com/news/article.do?pageID=canada_home&articleID=2304822

O'Connor's shopping list includes 1,500 vehicles built exclusively for military purposes, and 800 commercial trucks which will be adapted for the army.

The trucks come on top of plans to acquire 300 defence systems for the Forces's armoured vehicles, 300 special tow trucks and 1,000 pieces of equipment for specialized vehicles, such as mobile kitchens and offices.

Actual Announcement

1500 SMP vehicles
800 Commercial Pattern

So far so good

Then come:

300 armour kits for the 300 of the SMP vehicles (not defence systems for armoured vehicles)
300 trailers (not special tow trucks)
1000 SEV kits (not 1000 pieces of kit for SEV vehicles).

From the DND backgrounder: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1961

The project aims to procure approximately:

1500 standard military pattern vehicles (designed specifically for military use) with up to 300 load-handling system companion trailers;

800 commercial vehicles adapted for military use;

1000 specially equipped vehicles kits (such as mobile kitchens, offices and medical or dental stations); and,

300 armour protection systems.

Now it seems they can't even be bothered to cut and paste.  :

 

[yoman]

Aircraft capabilities

The contractor selected for the medium-to heavy-lift helicopter project will be awarded a contract to deliver 16 medium-to heavy-lift helicopters that meet all the minimum mandatory capabilities of the Canadian Forces listed below:

    * Internal lift – Cabin space to accommodate an infantry platoon (30 soldiers) with full combat equipment, including weapons, body armour, rucksacks, rations and communications (4,763 kilograms).
    * External lift – Lift multiple loads, including a lightweight field howitzer and associated equipment (a minimum of 5,443 kilograms).
    * Range – Flying endurance to ensure a relevant radius of operation (a minimum of 100 kilometres) with either the internal or external load described as above and at the temperatures and altitudes defined below to effectively cover CF tactical areas of responsibility.
    * Temperature and altitude – Power and endurance to accomplish the lift and range parameters defined above, at altitudes and temperatures found in the most likely Canadian Forces theatres of operations (1,220 metres above sea level and 35 degrees Celsius).
    * Aircraft certification – Aircraft must be certified to aviation certification standards recognized by Canada by the contract award date.
    * Fleet size – Minimum fleet of 16 aircraft, sufficient to sustain a minimum of three deployed helicopters in addition to maintenance, test and evaluation, and training at two main operating bases.
    * Delivery – Delivery date of first aircraft must be no later than 36 months after contract award and final aircraft delivery no later than 60 months after contract award.

An Advance Contract Award Notice (ACAN) will be the procurement approach used to acquire 16 medium-to heavy-lift helicopters. The estimated total projectcost for the acquisition phase is $2 billion, including the cost to purchase the aircraft. An additional $2.7 billion has been estimated for 20 years of in-service support, for which a separate contract will be competed by the prime helicopter manufacturer through a request for proposals. The requirement for this equipment is urgent. Delivery is expected as soon as possible and will continue until the requirement is fully met.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1968

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20060628.wchop0628/BNStory/National/home

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

Post deleted....

I know NUUUUUTHING!

 

[GAP]

Or buy some accompanying firepower to protect them.

 

[George Wallace]

I know NUUUUUTHING!

Now that you've let the 'cat out of the bag' for all the Press who lurk here looking for a scoop; how do you feel?   ;D

 

[GAP]

;D ;D ;D  lick  meow

 

[Kirkhill]

A few other observations:

Spec calls for >30 passengers and at least 5443 kg underslung

Sikorsky H92/CH148 Cyclone carries 22 seated troops and has a hook rated at 4535 kg
EH-101 Merlin/CH149 Cormorant carries 30 seated and 5443 kg
Boeing CH-47 Chinook/CH-147 carries 44 seated and 12,000 kg
Sikorsky CH-53 carries 55 seated and 16,330 kg

A light artillery piece (M777 currently in service) has a production weight of 3745 kg
An infantry platoon is 3 sections of 8 infanteers = 24 as well as at least a Platoon Leader and a Second in Command = 26 plus a 3 person weapons detachment and 1 medic =30.

Sikorsky may be "out" on the H92 end but "in" on the CH-53 end.

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRS-92.htm
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,186,00.pdf
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FREH101.htm
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/chinook/
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRCH-53E.htm

DND Backgrounder: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1968

 

[Cdn Blackshirt]

A few other observations:

Spec calls for >30 passengers and at least 5443 kg underslung

Sikorsky H92/CH148 Cyclone carries 22 seated troops and has a hook rated at 4535 kg
EH-101 Merlin/CH149 Cormorant carries 30 seated and 5443 kg
Boeing CH-47 Chinook/CH-147 carries 44 seated and 12,000 kg
Sikorsky CH-53 carries 55 seated and 16,330 kg

A light artillery piece (M777 currently in service) has a production weight of 3745 kg
An infantry platoon is 3 sections of 8 infanteers = 24 as well as at least a Platoon Leader and a Second in Command = 26 plus a 3 person weapons detachment and 1 medic =30.

Sikorsky may be "out" on the H92 end but "in" on the CH-53 end.

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRS-92.htm
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,186,00.pdf
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FREH101.htm
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/chinook/
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRCH-53E.htm

DND Backgrounder: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1968

....the math becomes interesting if Augusta-Westland takes their lawsuit off the table as part of their bid.


Matthew. 

 

[yoman]

A few other observations:

Spec calls for >30 passengers and at least 5443 kg underslung

Sikorsky H92/CH148 Cyclone carries 22 seated troops and has a hook rated at 4535 kg
EH-101 Merlin/CH149 Cormorant carries 30 seated and 5443 kg
Boeing CH-47 Chinook/CH-147 carries 44 seated and 12,000 kg
Sikorsky CH-53 carries 55 seated and 16,330 kg

A light artillery piece (M777 currently in service) has a production weight of 3745 kg
An infantry platoon is 3 sections of 8 infanteers = 24 as well as at least a Platoon Leader and a Second in Command = 26 plus a 3 person weapons detachment and 1 medic =30.

Sikorsky may be "out" on the H92 end but "in" on the CH-53 end.

http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRS-92.htm
http://www.sikorsky.com/file/popup/1,,186,00.pdf
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FREH101.htm
http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/chinook/
http://www.flug-revue.rotor.com/FRTypen/FRCH-53E.htm

DND Backgrounder: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/newsroom/view_news_e.asp?id=1968

Question. Can they all operate at high altitudes and temperatures like Afghanistan? Or would one (thinking Chinook) be better at it?

 

[blacktriangle]

pm sent

 

[Jantor]

I'd be surprised if the CH-53E/F were considered for this contract because of the timeline for production wouldn't meet the contract specs.

http://www.flightglobal.com/Articles/2006/04/11/Navigation/177/205881/USMC+orders+CH-53K.html

I too would be interested to find out how the British are getting along with the Merlin in A-stan.

 

[Kirkhill]

Question. Can they all operate at high altitudes and temperatures like Afghanistan? Or would one (thinking Chinook) be better at it?

Same specification calls for 1220m (4000 ft) and 35C. Mission radius 100 km.  Sounds fairly "modest" to this ignoramus.