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Political impacts of Ukraine war

Except Americans hate two things - Russians and Losing. Right now Trump and Vance are enabling two things we hate.

Interesting comment in The War Zone

Graeme Rymill
20 hours ago

Did Trump just contrive a convenient uproar in order to walk away and abandon Ukraine? Negotiating peace was always going to be an extremely difficult task given the gulf between Ukraine and Russia. Rather than risk a high profile failure, why not stage a public fight so Trump can say “look at this Zelensky guy - he doesn’t want peace - you can’t negotiate with someone like that”.

His supporters will buy it. His opponents don’t matter.
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Needle 1 MTG's boyfriend asks if Zelenskyy owns a suit. Disrespect to the Presidency. Vance laughs.
Needle 2 JDV lets Trump know that Zelenskyy is disrespecting him and his office in front of the cameras and the American people.

Zelenskyy reacts to JDV.
Trump reacts to Zelenskyy.

The base bays.
 
Interesting comment in The War Zone




Needle 1 MTG's boyfriend asks if Zelenskyy owns a suit. Disrespect to the Presidency. Vance laughs.
Needle 2 JDV lets Trump know that Zelenskyy is disrespecting him and his office in front of the cameras and the American people.

Zelenskyy reacts to JDV.
Trump reacts to Zelenskyy.

The base bays.
Need 0 Sen Lindsey Graham counsels Zelensky before the meeting to keep his cool.

"I told him this morning, 'Don't take the bait. Don't let the media or anyone else get you into an argument with President Trump. What he's doing today is resetting the relationship,'" Graham said." (here)

Life imitating art. From "Rising Sun":

John Connor: Do keep your hands at your sides. The Japanese find big arm movements threatening. Keep your voice calm and even. You'll probably find them irritating tonight. But whatever happens, don't lose your temper.
 
Interesting comment in The War Zone




Needle 1 MTG's boyfriend asks if Zelenskyy owns a suit. Disrespect to the Presidency. Vance laughs.
Needle 2 JDV lets Trump know that Zelenskyy is disrespecting him and his office in front of the cameras and the American people.

Zelenskyy reacts to JDV.
Trump reacts to Zelenskyy.

The base bays.

There was a time when treating another country's head of state like that would kick off a war.
 
I think a lot of Americans who normally would not thing poorly of their country, may change their views
People outside the US who think that are misreading the US. They don't think they're bad for providing a large chunk of the means by which Ukraine has prevented Russia from taking even more and then asking for a little respect and gratitude. They don't think a war that is barely moving, and that in the wrong direction, is worth paying to support indefinitely when their own budget balance is alarming and a social security funding crisis is approaching.
 
They don't think they're bad for providing a large chunk of the means by which Ukraine has prevented Russia from taking even more and then asking for a little respect and gratitude.
That there is a fail point. Just because the Trump-Vance gaslighting team said that Zelenskyy never said thank you, doesn’t make it true.
 
People outside the US who think that are misreading the US. They don't think they're bad for providing a large chunk of the means by which Ukraine has prevented Russia from taking even more and then asking for a little respect and gratitude. They don't think a war that is barely moving, and that in the wrong direction, is worth paying to support indefinitely when their own budget balance is alarming and a social security funding crisis is approaching.
The Ukraine conflict is likley the cheapest war the US has fought since WWII. The destruction of the Soviet stockpiles, the advancements in battlefield technology , lessons learned are worth way more than the US will admit to.
 
That there is a fail point. Just because the Trump-Vance gaslighting team said that Zelenskyy never said thank you, doesn’t make it true.
Wonderful. Pity he couldn't manage it with the cameras rolling in the WH. He obviously has to make that point more strongly to correct the misimpression.
 
The Ukraine conflict is likley the cheapest war the US has fought since WWII. The destruction of the Soviet stockpiles, the advancements in battlefield technology , lessons learned are worth way more than the US will admit to.
Again, what one person thinks is worthwhile might not matter a great deal to another; and, if the Russian army this conflict had revealed had gone up against US formations I suppose the character of the conflict might be a great deal different. Lessons are situational.

As usual, people persist in seeing all this from their own frames. The frame that matters is Americans, particularly Americans who are mostly satisfied with the direction of government right now.

"Know your enemy and know yourself." "Avoid the unnecessary battle." "Select and maintain the aim." These are principles applicable to any competitive endeavour, whether warfare, business, or political negotiations.
 
Speaking of consequences:

Norwegian firm refuses fuel to US warships over Trump's snub to Zelenskyy

Norwegian fuel company Haltbakk Bunkers has announced an immediate halt of supply to US military forces and naval vessels docking in Norwegian ports, citing dissatisfaction with recent American policy towards Ukraine. The move follows Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy's recent visit to the White House, where he had a hostile conversation with US President Donald Trump and Vice President JD Vance.

In a statement shared on Facebook, the company condemned the televised exchange between the leaders, calling it the "biggest s***show ever presented live on TV.” Haltbakk Bunkers praised Zelenskyy for his restraint during the discussion, accusing the US of staging a “backstabbing TV show.”


 
As Brexiteer Tusk is kind of the enemy of my enemy. Having said that he is fairly representing Poland and I agree with him.

Tusk to tell leaders that more European troops needed near Russia​


Donald Tusk, the Prime Minister of Poland, will tell fellow leaders in London that more European troops need to be stationed in countries bordering Russia.

Before flying to the UK, Mr Tusk said Europe had to achieve military and “defence independence” from the US and start “believing we are a global power.”

He said he would “loudly demand that all European countries think about how to strengthen our flank, and that European troops should be much more present in Finland, the Baltic states and on our border with Russia and Belarus”.

“In the Ukrainian-Russian war, Poland stands on Ukraine’s side – no ifs, ands or buts – not only because human decency requires it, but also for our security,” Mr Tusk told reporters in Poland.

Poland, which will spend 4.7 per cent of GDP on defence this year, has been one of Ukraine’s strongest supporters.

Mr Tusk said it also wanted strong transatlantic relations and the “closest possible alliance” between Europe and the US.

“We support Ukraine and we strengthen our alliance with the United States – no matter how difficult the circumstances are,” he said.

“We also know that Poland must buy an additional insurance policy. This means European armaments, the military and defence independence of Europe. Independence – not isolation.”

Mr Tusk said that, with Ukraine, Europe had 2.6m soldiers compared to 1.3m US soldiers and 1.1m in Russia. It also had more fighter jets.

“Today in Europe we have a deficit of imagination and courage. Europe must understand its strength,” he said. A strong Europe, confident in its strength, well prepared to defend its borders, is a Europe that can guarantee peace.”


Some of those Atlantic countries could send some of their combat aircraft forwards to Finland, the Baltics, Poland and Romania. Or if that is a step to far forward for them send them to Germany and Czechia.
 
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