Posting Policy-Restricted (IR) & Prohibited moves [MERGED]

[Halifax Tar]

Brookfield is correct.  The COS (Change of Strenght) is the day you belong to your new unit.  Your RFD date is your COS plus any travel time to get from where you are to your new unit.

My RFD was not listed on my post msg. So am I to assume that will be worked out after my HHT ?

 

[aesop081]

My RFD was not listed on my post msg. So am I to assume that will be worked out after my HHT ?

You RFD is worked out between the CO of your current unit and the CO of your new unit. This will allow a door-to-door move that accomodates your situation. Your RFD can be moved to anywhere between 30 days prior to COS and 30 days after.

 

[Pusser]

Brookfield is correct.  The COS (Change of Strenght) is the day you belong to your new unit.  Your RFD date is your COS plus any travel time to get from where you are to your new unit.

Sorry to be blunt, but Brookfield is not correct in this case and neither are you.  The Change of Strength (COS) Date is one of the most misunderstood things in the CF.  The COS Date is simply a spot on the calendar where you cease to belong to one unit for administrative purposes and begin to belong to another.  In simple and somewhat ghoulish terms, it determines who gets stuck organizing your funeral if you die en route to your new location (heaven forbid, knock on wood, etc).

Your Report for Duty (RFD) Date is not in the Posting Instruction, but is actually a more pertinent detail. It is negotiated between the gaining and losing COs to any point within 30 days either side of the COS Date.  Any point outside of this 60 day window requires a new posting message.  In a standard posting situation (i.e. there are exceptions), once the two units have agreed to an RFD Date, then Brookfield used RFD Date to determine the schedule for packing, loading, starting travel etc.

Keep in mind that you also can have input into the RFD Date.  For example if you're in a situation where you can break a lease at COS -20 without penalty, then it's in everybody's best interests to move your RFD date forward and move you well in advance of COS.  This is possible and should be encouraged.  You could even have the move completed before COS.  By the same token, if moving the RFD to COS +20 means your kids can finish school before you leave, that makes sense as well.  Brookfield shouldn't care one way or the other what your COS Date is.  They only need to know the RFD Date.  PM me if you're still having issues.

 

[Northern Ranger]

You sir, hit the nail on the head!  I think something like this should be posted in the IRP booklet as most can find it or don't know of the 245.

Sorry to be blunt, but Brookfield is not correct in this case and neither are you.  The Change of Strength (COS) Date is one of the most misunderstood things in the CF.  The COS Date is simply a spot on the calendar where you cease to belong to one unit for administrative purposes and begin to belong to another.  In simple and somewhat ghoulish terms, it determines who gets stuck organizing your funeral if you die en route to your new location (heaven forbid, knock on wood, etc).

Your Report for Duty (RFD) Date is not in the Posting Instruction, but is actually a more pertinent detail. It is negotiated between the gaining and losing COs to any point within 30 days either side of the COS Date.  Any point outside of this 60 day window requires a new posting message.  In a standard posting situation (i.e. there are exceptions), once the two units have agreed to an RFD Date, then Brookfield used RFD Date to determine the schedule for packing, loading, starting travel etc.

Keep in mind that you also can have input into the RFD Date.  For example if you're in a situation where you can break a lease at COS -20 without penalty, then it's in everybody's best interests to move your RFD date forward and move you well in advance of COS.  This is possible and should be encouraged.  You could even have the move completed before COS.  By the same token, if moving the RFD to COS +20 means your kids can finish school before you leave, that makes sense as well.  Brookfield shouldn't care one way or the other what your COS Date is.  They only need to know the RFD Date.  PM me if you're still having issues.

 

[Zoomie]

I guess I better see if my IRP rep did any of this - I already have a pack,load, move date and I know my two chain's have not talked.

 

[navymich]

I guess I better see if my IRP rep did any of this - I already have a pack,load, move date and I know my two chain's have not talked.

My chains don't seem concerned.  We also have pack/load/move dates (based on our possession date) and they just want to know what dates I'll be where.  It doesn't even appear it is going much higher up then my direct supervisors, current and new.

 

[aesop081]

My chains don't seem concerned.  We also have pack/load/move dates (based on our possession date) and they just want to know what dates I'll be where.  It doesn't even appear it is going much higher up then my direct supervisors, current and new.

That both your units were unconcerned is great but sometimes its not that simple ( like when the new job requires specialized training with set course dates, for example).

Both direct supervisors would have to have sought approval from higher. I'm going through this myself....well........i will as soon as my posting message/IRP situation gets unfucked.

 

[Zoomie]

That both your units were unconcerned is great but sometimes its not that simple

Every new job that I have been to requires "specialized training" - I just happen to already know when that course starts and have tailored my move to fit that requirement.  Whether I am sitting around down there or up here doesn't really matter to any degree.  Like Mich said, unconcerned supervisors are a good sign.

I hope your file gets fixed soon C.A.

 

[Scoobs]

I'm currently going through a posting myself.  As other poster's stated, the RFD is way more important than the COS date.  As long as your RFD date is close to your possession date (if buying) or move in date (if renting), they are okay with it.  They will tell you a date that you should change your RFD to, but remember, it is your move and if you are close to what they want, they won't give much of an argument.  I changed my RFD date to 6 days earlier than my COS just by putting a memo up.  Normally an email from your losing unit Chief to the gaining unit Chief will do the trick.  The formal approval does come from CO to CO.  Once I understood how the relocation leave would work, I decided to change my RFD to one day earlier.  Brookfield just said, "okay".

Just so everyone can understand, here is the thing about relocation leave as I did my research by reading the CF Leave Policy and speaking with my unit's Chief Clerk.  Plus, some of my pers who are posted asked me these quesitons:

1. You are entitled to 5 days "special leave - relocation" at the losing unit.  The CO must, key word, must grant the 5 days.  He/she would have to justify to Ottawa why the leave was denied.  This rarely happens.  Therefore, if your losing unit CO denies the 5 days, then there will be a major issue.  Note that the 5 days is counted only against working days.  Thus, weekends and holidays do NOT count against the 5 days.  Also, the 5 days can be broken, i.e. they don't have to be taken continously.  The 5th day is always your clean/closing date on your old home.  Then count backwards 5 working days and then you have your entire dates for leave.  Note that your travel day does NOT count as one of the leave days as you are technically considered on duty.  Your travel day can be on a weekend or stat holiday, as is the case for me.

2. You are entitled to 5 days at the gaining unit.  The gaining unit CO approves this leave.  Just like at the losing unit, the gaining unit CO must give you the 5 days and the other stuff above applies.  The problem here is when this leave begins.  This leave does not have to be taken when you move into your new home, but I highly recommend that it is so that you can properly settle into your new home.  Your RFD date should NOT count against one of the leave days.  Depending on the unit, the unit may actually want you to report in uniform into work and thus this is considered a duty day.  Most units that I have been to use their common sense and just have you phone into your boss to let them know that you are okay and arrived at the new location.  I will be using my closing date on my new home as my RFD and then start the 5 days of leave on my unpack date.  This is of course if my F and E actually gets moved into my new home on my closing date.

Note that annual leave cannot be on a leave pass for special.  All annual, just like normal, is up to your boss' approval.

Hope this helps.

 

[aesop081]

Every new job that I have been to requires "specialized training" -

Not in my case, my last 3 postings did not require any.

 

[navymich]

Not in my case, my last 3 postings did not require any.

Because you're already special.    And ditto to what Zoomie said, hope all of your stuff gets sorted out soon.


Scoobs, thank you for the details on the leave.  Although it is nice to have unconcerned supervisors in some instances, in others it would be nice to have a bit more guidance, regardless of what I know or profess to know.

 

[aesop081]

Correction to my last, 2 out of my last 3 postings did not require specialized training. One was post wings course and had some hard dates attached to it if i was unwilling to wait 6+ months for the next one.

 

[Zoomie]

Thanks Scoobs - good to know.  Albeit in my case, my supervisor really doesn't care what I do.  I am returning to work soon off PATA and won't be in a position to get my instructor category back in the short time that I will be on duty.  So in all reality he doesn't want to see me around at work unless I am doing some admin - I plan on flying as much as I can and taking short days when I can't fly.  On the other end I have a month until my course starts, so again, they don't want to see me until about two weeks before course start date.

 

[captloadie]

My chains don't seem concerned.  We also have pack/load/move dates (based on our possession date) and they just want to know what dates I'll be where.  It doesn't even appear it is going much higher up then my direct supervisors, current and new.

The highlighted portion has been a rather large factor in recent years. People were denied IL&M because their RFD and travel days didn't match the timeline for delivery of F&E. Individuals were told by IRP what reporting date they had to request, instead of it being the other way around. It was so bad for awhile, members were told that they wouldn't be reimbursed additional IL&M if their closing date and new possession date didn't correspond to the the times it took for the travel days and/or F&E to arrive. It was considered a personal decision to buy a house where the possession date fell outside "their" policy. I believe they sorted this out last year via a Canforgen, but I'd be interested to find out if members run into issues again this APS.

As for the relocation leave issue, it isn't a MUST for the CO to grant. He can deny the requested dates for a myriad of reasons, just like any other leave he signs off on. The policy just states he shouldn't without justification. I'm sure plenty of members can tell stories of being put on exercise/DOM OP/traingin immediately upon arrival and given the five days later.

 

[Halifax Tar]

1. You are entitled to 5 days "special leave - relocation" at the losing unit.  The CO must, key word, must grant the 5 days.  He/she would have to justify to Ottawa why the leave was denied.  This rarely happens.  Therefore, if your losing unit CO denies the 5 days, then there will be a major issue.  Note that the 5 days is counted only against working days.  Thus, weekends and holidays do NOT count against the 5 days.  Also, the 5 days can be broken, i.e. they don't have to be taken continously.  The 5th day is always your clean/closing date on your old home.  Then count backwards 5 working days and then you have your entire dates for leave.  Note that your travel day does NOT count as one of the leave days as you are technically considered on duty.  Your travel day can be on a weekend or stat holiday, as is the case for me.

2. You are entitled to 5 days at the gaining unit.  The gaining unit CO approves this leave.  Just like at the losing unit, the gaining unit CO must give you the 5 days and the other stuff above applies.  The problem here is when this leave begins.  This leave does not have to be taken when you move into your new home, but I highly recommend that it is so that you can properly settle into your new home.  Your RFD date should NOT count against one of the leave days.  Depending on the unit, the unit may actually want you to report in uniform into work and thus this is considered a duty day.  Most units that I have been to use their common sense and just have you phone into your boss to let them know that you are okay and arrived at the new location.  I will be using my closing date on my new home as my RFD and then start the 5 days of leave on my unpack date.  This is of course if my F and E actually gets moved into my new home on my closing date.

As a member going on my posting under "Imposed Restriction" I would hazard a guess that the leave at both ends is shorter, as Im not moving my F&E and NOK with me correct ? I looked in the CF leave manual and I dosnt specify.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thanks for all your help guys. I figured it out after reading all your posts. My COS is 11 July but my RFD is 11 Aug so 11 Aug I show up for work ready to rock'n'roll.

All the best!

 

[PMedMoe]

As a member going on my posting under "Imposed Restriction" I would hazard a guess that the leave at both ends is shorter, as Im not moving my F&E and NOK with me correct ? I looked in the CF leave manual and I dosnt specify.

For IR, the CO (gaining and losing) may authorize two days each.  It's under Chapter 5, Special Leave (Relocation) Table 1.  Right after para 5.11.11.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Thanks Moe!  :nod:

 

[McG]

You are entitled to 5 days "special leave - relocation" at the losing unit. 

This is true for a move within the continent where movement of HG&E is authorized.  It is not neccesarily true for people in other circumstances.  The breakdown is 3 days personal admin and 2 days HG&E.

You are entitled to 5 days at the gaining unit. 

This also is true for a move within the continent where movement of HG&E is authorized and is also not neccesarily true for people in other circumstances.  The breakdown is the same as on the other end: 3 days personal admin and 2 days HG&E.

As a member going on my posting under "Imposed Restriction" I would hazard a guess that the leave at both ends is shorter, as Im not moving my F&E and NOK with me correct ? I looked in the CF leave manual and I dosnt specify.

It does.  It indicates 2 days personal admin on either end.

 

[Pusser]

I will be using my closing date on my new home as my RFD and then start the 5 days of leave on my unpack date.  This is of course if my F and E actually gets moved into my new home on my closing date.

Note that annual leave cannot be on a leave pass for special.  All annual, just like normal, is up to your boss' approval.

The RFD Date is the day youi actually show up for work, in uniform, ready to start.  Your RFD Date shout NOT be the closing date of your new home.  How can you possibly put in a day's work at your new job, when you will spending a good chunk of that day at the lawyer's office, picking up keys, etc?  Remember that Relocation Leave is specifically designed for performing the administration of moving into your new home.  Closing the deal is part of that.

Once you arrive at your new location, the gaps between the arrival of your F&E and your RFD need to be covered somehow.  You can use any combination of Relocation Leave, Annual Leave or work to fill those gaps that works for you.  Remember that if you are arriving on time, the day you arrive is a travel (i.e. duty) day and is not counted as anything else.

As long as all days are consecutive,m there is absolutely no reason that Annual Leave and Special Leave - Relocation cannot be on the same leave pass.  In fact, depending on the circumstances, it is entirely feasible that a single leave pass could include, Annual, Weekend, Short and a variety of forms of Special Leave all on the same document.  Why kill another tree?