Promotions in the CAF [Merged]

[Pieman]

I will start with the caveat that I am not a big fan of conspiracy theories of any type.   So, not surprisingly, I do not for one minute believe that there is a plot afoot to ensure that only francophones get ahead in the infantry

Neither am I, and that is really why I poised the question on here. In my mind, if a group of legion members and veterans feel that there is some kind of disadvantage with being a non-native french speaker, then it is quite possible that a large number of people feel this way. I am also quite sure there is no conspiracy at all. One more question to add that  I think will help clear up this rumour:

Is it possible that Francophone Soldier/Officers get promoted quicker on average (assuming that is true) because they tend to be more capable in the bilingual area?

What I mean by more capable is simply that in my (limited) experience, most French Canadians are more Bilingual and have a good grip on the English language, while English Canadians (especially out west) tend to be rusty at best with their French skills (on average). Could it be that native English speakers are not making the cut in the selection process because they are getting blown away by the bilingual skills of the francophones, and thus giving the appearance that francophones are being favoured?

Edit: Also, The underlying assumtion for this rumour seems to be that native french speakers are promoted faster, but is that assumtion even true?

 

[MdB]

Is it possible that Francophone Soldier/Officers get promoted quicker on average (assuming that is true) because they tend to be more capable in the bilingual area?

I thought about that too. Maybe it is just that most francophones tend to be more capable in second language than most anglophones are in theirs.

Just to add some numbers to it. I don't intend to put them litterally on the CF, but it can give a picture since all CF members come of the larger canadian society.

According to a Statistics Canada survey, 9% of all english-speaking canadians interwied say they are bilingual. On the other side, 47% of all french-speaking canadians say they are. These numbers are really easy to understand. English is the language of North America, so to speak, english speakers don't really need french to make business (largest meaning). Conversely, french speakers total about 9 millions (dunno the precise number) population in a 270 millions or so english speakers population. It's normal, if not necessary to learn english in this situation to make business (largest meaning).

Another thing, I personally think that english is a lot easier to learn than french and god-bless I'm french speaker.

Cheers,

 

[Pieman]

According to a Statistics Canada survey, 9% of all english-speaking canadians interwied say they are bilingual. On the other side, 47% of all french-speaking canadians say they are. These numbers are really easy to understand. English is the language of North America, so to speak, english speakers don't really need french to make business

Makes sense, I wonder if statistics on french/english ratios to rank in the CF would be available, possibly through access to information act...would be interesting to see.
(Torlyn, you got some spare time?)

Another thing, I personally think that english is a lot easier to learn than french and god-bless I'm french speaker.

Being from Alberta, my parents managed to get me out of French classes and had me learn German instead...it came in handy when I was in Germany, but does not have much use here in Canada. I am a little worried about the French language issue in my upcoming CF career as I will be walking in there knowing almost no French. I can only hope that the Language instruction I receive from the CF will do the trick.

Anyway, thanks all for your answers.

 

[1R22eR]

I speak french and im in R22eR, i understand the english lang but i dont talk this, i want learning the english fir help me in my carreer  and for operation with other army in the world. the english is the first lang in the army and all french could be learning the english. im not very good for writing the english, sorry but i try to communicate with all guy in this website for practice the english!! my english is not very good!! 

 

[MdB]

I just heard CDS Hillier tonite. Now, I really think second language can't be THAT an hindrance to promotion. He's the top one now and he speaks FUNCTIONAL french to say the least. Hehe.

Cheers,

 

[rw4th]

I think the bottom line here is that, all things being equal, bilingualism is advantage that helps you get ahead. Now Quebec being what it is, I think it tends to generate more functionally bilingual people then any other province. I've never met someone who was fluent (written and oral) in both French and English who wasn't either from Quebec or New Brunswick.

 

[bob the piper]

I've never met someone who was fluent (written and oral) in both French and English who wasn't either from Quebec or New Brunswick.

You've obviously never been to Manitoba. Something like 50 000 people here have French as their first language and almost all of them speak English too. I'm in a French Immersion high school in Winnipeg with 550 kids and there are about 7 other schools like it in town. Everyone at these schools is fully bilingual and 95% of them learnt French as a second language. I'm sure there are many more places like this, especially along the Ontario/Quebec border too.

 

[rw4th]

You've obviously never been to Manitoba

Well, you're right, I haven't been to Manitoba. I just never met anybody in the army who was fluent (I do say FLUENT, not just functional) in both languages who wasn't originally from Qc or NB.

I wonder if the gov has any actually statistics on this. Might help elucidate this mystery.

 

[Torlyn]

Makes sense, I wonder if statistics on french/english ratios to rank in the CF would be available, possibly through access to information act...would be interesting to see.
(Torlyn, you got some spare time?)

Do I have spare time...  What, you think that I've got all this time in the world, that I can sit around and look this stuff up?  Sigh...  You're right.  The best I got was the language that was put down as "first official" on application, and that's 28% french, and 72% english.  (The CDN ratio is 24-76, so not too far off.  HOWEVER, according to the DND, "Representation of Francophones and Anglophones in the CF has changed little during the past 10 years, however, the proportion of French-speaking members at senior rank levels has nearly doubled in the same period".  This was written in 1996, leaving us two conclusions.  One, francophone officers are more capable than their english-speaking counterpoints, or they get promoted more because of their abilities in both languages.    Better pay attention in the FSL courses, eh Pieman?

T

 

[Pieman]

One, francophone officers are more capable than their English-speaking counterpoints, or they get promoted more because of their abilities in both languages.    Better pay attention in the FSL courses, eh Pieman?

Ah, crud....I was planning on using that time to consume large quantities of Guinness. Nice work Torlyn, you shall receive a pint of Canadian in wages for your labour.

So it would seem there is an aura of truth to the grumblings of the old veterans that were at this dinner party, just not for the right reasons....maybe I will take a French course or two before I get to BOTC.

 

[bob the piper]

I just never met anybody in the army who was fluent (I do say FLUENT, not just functional) in both languages who wasn't originally from Qc or NB.

Most of the people I was talking about are fluent. They've been speaking French since they were 5 and use it for 7 to 8 hours out of 8 during the day. Some of them speak French better than English, myself included.

I wonder if the gov has any actually statistics on this. Might help elucidate this mystery.

There's about 60 000 people in MB who speak French as a second language if that helps.

 

[MdB]

Ah, crud....I was planning on using that time to consume large quantities of Guinness. Nice work Torlyn, you shall receive a pint of Canadian in wages for your labour.

So it would seem there is an aura of truth to the grumblings of the old veterans that were at this dinner party, just not for the right reasons....maybe I will take a French course or two before I get to BOTC.

Actually, beer and second-language course (after class hours preferably) really get along well. Hmmm, that's one thing I loved and still love learning German.

Cheers, Prost, santé!! [insert beer smiley]

 

[Jungle]

Cheers, Prost, santé!! [insert beer smiley]

Here...

 

[big bad john]

Guinness!!!!! Jungle did I see Guinness!!!

 

[Jungle]

Guinness!!!!! Jungle did I see Guinness!!!

Yes my friend. Some would like to think it's cola... but it is definitely Guinness!!!  8)

 

[big bad john]

Mothers Milk!

 

[Pieman]

Ahhh, Guinness. Nectar of the Gods.

The memories, Guiness I miss you so. I have not had a Guinness since...since...last night! But that is way too long.

 

[big bad john]

The only things that I have put my foot down on so to speak on my upcoming wedding is a decent Piper, (still looking) and a few kegs of Guinness.

 

[TR23]

I was wondering if anyone could clarify a small detail for me.   I have read in several places that Int Officers are frequently promoted from NCO Int Op.   Now, that being the case, does that mean that most Officer in the trade were former NCOs, or are most commisioned from ROTP, or DEO?
If someone was really interested in becoming an Int Officer would they be best to aim for a component transfer from another position as an Officer, or would they be best to enter the forces as an NCO, learn a trade, then transfer to Int Op, then aim for training and promotion to Officer?
Please excuse my lack of knowledge, I am civilian, not serving in the forces, but I am interested in potentially joining.   Analyzing and information collecting have always interested me, and I'm simply hoping to learn a little about the trade.   I have read several of the threads here at army.ca, and if my questions were answered somewhere else and I missed them I apoligize in advance.
Thanks

 

[Acorn]

There has been an increase in NCMs getting commissioned, but it's nowhere near "most" officers in the branch. Most officers are reclassified from other officer classifications, and an increasing number are off the street.

Acorn